hexagon789

Some sample 2003 formations were kindly provided for me in this post: And you'll find set formations from 2007 until 2009 withdrawal in this thread on IRN: http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/912/MK3-News?page=1#.VgGtI5eIXK4.

I've had the ITG 1987 book for a a good number of months and from that I could see that 7107, 7110 and 7157 were the Open Firsts or Super Standards (not sure when IÉ changed the designation). Then in roaming Google I came across a picture of 7140, dated July 1984, branded as a First, I simply thought it had been converted to a Standard by 1987 as 7110 was converted to a Standard sometime between 1987 and 1994 according to the ITG books. This first photo isn't really clear enough to make out the seating. Then recently I came across that very sharp photo of 7140 I linked above again dated July 1984 and again with it carrying "InterCity 1st" branding. It bothered me as it looked as though the seats didn't line up, but thanks to Mayner I now know that 7140 was reclassified as a First with no alterations to seating. Now being July 1984, as I understand it this is when the first Mk3s entered passenger service, there being two rakes. I have not yet been able to find details out which vehicles these rakes consisted of, except a photo of a set at Cork in July 1984 shows Genny Van 7601 and I have those two photos of 7140 as a First. Now 7107 and 7110 are apparently from the initial batch of vehicles sent over from Derby Litchurch Lane Works fully assembled (this running from 7101 to 7111), so I'm still a little confused as to how 7140 could be in service so soon, unless some Mk3s were built in 1983, and also how quickly CIE decided that only two Super Standards was insufficient and at the very least branded 7140 as one immediately prior to it entering service it seems. I have since acquired a copy of Irish Railway Rambler, and in its section on Mk3s there is an interior shot of 7114 at Hueston in 1986, up-classed to a First with antimacassars and orange curtains! The text notes that requirements for First Class particularly on the Cork line saw not infrequent upclassing of Standards as Firsts. There is no mention of whether 7114 carried exterior branding like 7140. So it remains to be seen if any vehicles other than 7140 were branded Firsts while essentially remaining Standards internally bar curtains etc. I still don't understand IÉ's original plan for the Mk3s, hence why I would like to read the IRRS journals to see if there is any mention of it. Certainly to start with until the Composites (7165-72), were built it seems that most of the Mk3 workings would've been Standard Class only, presumably with 7107 and 7110 being dedicated to the best Cork workings rather as with the CityGold vehicles after they were converted in 1993. That's alright, I know exactly what you mean - it's so easy to misread something like that! From The Wanderer's site, the antimacassars can be seen on the seat headrests and it can be seen that the seats line-up: There's a photo of ex-First 7107 on the same site as well. 7110 as I mentioned seems to have been converted to a 72-Seat Standard at some point, while 7107 became a 32F/32S composite and 7157 remained a full First, both of the latter being fully declassified at some point I gather. Certainly from some lists of Mk3 set formations from 2003-2009, neither appears to have even used as a Composite or First being formed in the Standard Class portions of sets. Same here, I actually prefer it to 'Tippex'!

Not in a Standard, but in the orginal Super Standards 7107, 7110 and later 7157 they would with the 64-Seat arrangement. Certainly the seats line up perfectly in the photo of 7157 I've seen. Interesting, I wasn't aware any vehicles other than Executive 7161 had a cocktail bar. Certainly none of the ITG books mentioned that. Thank you for the list, that should prove very useful.

The 70 Class ones do look lighter - more akin to a B5 as you say.

I wonder if Issue 97 - June 1985 is a good shout, has a nice picture of an 071 hauling Mk3s on the front cover. Though likely an issue around July 1984 might be more likely the "right" one.

Thank you for the informative reply. Regarding the IRRS journals, which is an excellent suggestion, I don't possess any. I gather that you can get back issues from them by e-mailing them though? At least a look in their website suggests this. My only problem is which issue or issues would have such information as the older issues in particular don't seem to have the content indexed as with more recent issues.

Does the book say if any other Standards were up-classed to Firsts? Also, it's interesting that it says: "re-classified as a 1st with existing seating arrangements as demand for 1st Class travel built up following the introduction of the new trains", as the photo I linked dates from July 1984 which as I understood it was when the first two Mk3 sets entered service which suggests to me 7140 orginally entered service branded as a First rather than later being reclassified.

I saw this photo of 7140 branded as a First in a Flickr gallery a while ago, and I'm wondering if it's my eyes or do the seats not line up with the windows? https://www.flickr.com/photos/tramfan/14647733553/

I believe Mk6 motor bogie would be the designation for an 80 Class power bogie. They look identical to the motor bogies of BR Southern Region Electric Multiple Units and those power bogies (also fitted to Class 73 Electro-Diesels) were coded Mk. 6 by BR. The Mk6 is a development of the B4 design.

Thank you for the details of the working. I do similar today, sit/stand in a particular carriage so that on arrival I step out perfectly in line with the exit. Works well when my local is formed of a 4-car, the stopping marker is just past the exit point so the passenger door lines up beautifully! When it's a two-car you'll see me scowl: 1 - because if it's busy it can be a squeeze sometimes. 2 - But mostly because I have to walk further now!

I can well imagine staff coming up with some very colourful names indeed! I've since come across "bricks" for the 201s. A new one I came upon describing the then brand-new NIR 450s - 66,000cc shopping trolleys!

Thanks, I hadn't realised the Mk3 sets were orientated with First Class away from Dublin. I assumed it would be at the Dublin-end as with the Mk4 sets.

I believe only the Class 205s, as under the Southern Region designation they were 2H or 3H - 2-car Hampshire etc So most nicknames tended to be enthusiast created then? Does anyone know of any other nicknames for any of 121/141/181/071 or 201 Class locos? Or any modern IE DMUs/EMUs.

Thank you for clearing that up. Presumably that would be a Dublin-Tralee or vice-versa service then.

Presumably because 2600s were known as "Arrow Commuter"? I kind of like the sound of "Sputniks"! Am I right in thinking the 70 Class were the "River" Class? Presumably brought over from the BR Southern Region?

Does that mean they may get withdrawn entirely from both passenger and freight duties in the near future or am I reading to much into that? Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind.

It makes sense, I imagine that trains in both directions on the Cork road having to use the same individual platform must be operationally awkward since the Cork loop was removed. I wonder what they'll number the new platform. Will they renumber the whole station or just go for the next number on sequence.

I wonder if these will be more powerful as well as more efficient and environmentally-friendly. Weren't IÉ also going to re-engine the 201s with new, more efficient engines as well?

I found this photo somewhere a while back and saved it. Unfortunately I can't remember where I found it and I wondered if anyone could identify the location: Regards, Ben.

(Had a search on this site, but I could only find an existing thread on livery nicknames, not class nicknames.) I've heard a few but wondered if anyone could add to the following - 121 Class - Yanks 141/181 Class - Small/Baby GMs 071 Class - Big GMs 201 Class - River Class 22000 Class - ICRs Does anyone know of any other nicknames for the above or for other classes? Regards, Ben.

A word of caution if I may - I've been informed that certainly as regards the later era (1970s/80s and onwards) formation guides, the rakes are not necessarily prototypically accurate. In some cases it appears they have substituted the correct vehicle types for what is actually available, while this may not affect the 1950s/60s-era guides I felt I should make people aware of this. Regards, Ben.

Actually it appears I'm wrong. I must admit 2,970hp seemed quite high, it would appear that the figure is actually likely 1850kW (about 2,480hp). Oh and wikipedia is wrong about BR Class 66s having 3,300hp rated engines. They are in fact 3,200hp exactly the same as BR Class 67s and the IÉ 201 Class. Nevertheless, despite answering my own question I do appreciate the above replies. Thanks all.

Thank you for the detailed reply, though it was only the power-at-rail rating I was looking for which I think must be the 2,970hp figure.

Well this is weird, I replied to this a few hours ago, but the reply is gone, bizarre. I shall try again. Sounds about right. I know a typical UK loco can provide about 475kW (nearly 640hp) for HEP. Thank you, it seems they share D43 traction motors and a BR Class 66 is given a power-at-rail of 2,240kW (just over 3,000hp). Therefore I wonder if 2,970hp is actually the relevant figure for an IÉ 201 then, allowing for its slightly less powerful engine.

Been wondering for a while what the power-at-rail of a 201 Class is. I've looked in various ITG books and the most recent Platform 5 Irish Railways book but none give the power-at-rail for a River class. Would anyone happen to know what it is? I've seen 2,970hp traction listed on Wikipedia but I assume this is simply what you can get out of the 3,200hp for moving the train and not the actual power-at-rail rating? Thanks in advance, regards Ben.