hexagon789

Seen a copy of June 1985 come up for sale. Picture of an 071 with brand-new Mk3s, would I be right in assuming there's a feature on them in the issue? Grateful for any confirmation provided. Regards, Ben :)

If it was the early 1990s, then the other Mk2D would likely have been any old mix as Hueston sets seemed quite randomly formed after the Mk3s were introduced and cascaded the Mk2Ds down the pecking order. The two EGV were needed for long sets, I think one could power up to 11 then for 12 or 13 they'd have two EGV, the jumpers being disconnected between the two middle vehicles so each Generator Van powered half the coaches.

Don't know about him, but I'm still not happy IÉ got rid of them...

Hi guys, this time you'll be glad to hear I'm not here to bother you all with more questions(!) Instead I'm going to summarise some things I've deduced and see if anyone agrees. I recently acquired a set of consecutive CIÉ timetables from the early 1980s and with these I've pieced together how I think the early Mk3 operations developed. So, to start in 1980, from another thread on this forum I believe in that year as regards the Mk2d stock 5 sets were generally in traffic, with a sixth at busy periods. I assume that this would mean two sets for Dublin-Cork and one for each of Limerick, Waterford and Galway? From 1980-1983 there are services with Superstandard on the latter three routes in addition to Dublin-Cork, but in 1984 and 1985, only Dublin-Cork services have Superstandard. Now, if I look in my Doyle/Hirsch 1987 rolling stock book, the Mk2d composites which were fitted out as such are all declassified so what I think happened when the Mk3s were introduced from 1984 was that a decision was made to only have Superstandard on the Cork line and run everything else as Standard only. This would explain the declassifying of the Mk2d composites and the fact that only two Mk3 Firsts were built until 1987. So, I assume therefore that CIE decided to run two Mk3 sets on Dublin-Cork with Firsts, and in the early years Mk2d sets as well also with Firsts, with Mk3 Standards being upclassed to cover for unavailable 7107 or 7110. Then by 1987 CIÉ decides, for whatever reason, to re-introduce Superstandard (now First Class) on the other InterCity routes, hence the construction of the Mk3 composites while 7157 was also built to give an additional full First for the Cork line. Does this seem plausible, as I am working off an awful lot of assumptions? Cheers, Ben.

Does it not have a bay and the through platform or did they take another out of use? Oban, Scotland - the only remaining platforms are numbered 3 and 4. Stirling, Scotland - what was Platform 1 is now the car park.

MPD - Multi-Problemed Diesel

Not planning to model Irish Rail, but I could be sorely tempted! For me I'd love full, prototypical Mk3 rakes in their later years. 201s and 071s for haulage. Wouldn't mind some Mk2D rakes for variety either

Some sample 2003 formations were kindly provided for me in this post: And you'll find set formations from 2007 until 2009 withdrawal in this thread on IRN: http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/912/MK3-News?page=1#.VgGtI5eIXK4.

I've had the ITG 1987 book for a a good number of months and from that I could see that 7107, 7110 and 7157 were the Open Firsts or Super Standards (not sure when IÉ changed the designation). Then in roaming Google I came across a picture of 7140, dated July 1984, branded as a First, I simply thought it had been converted to a Standard by 1987 as 7110 was converted to a Standard sometime between 1987 and 1994 according to the ITG books. This first photo isn't really clear enough to make out the seating. Then recently I came across that very sharp photo of 7140 I linked above again dated July 1984 and again with it carrying "InterCity 1st" branding. It bothered me as it looked as though the seats didn't line up, but thanks to Mayner I now know that 7140 was reclassified as a First with no alterations to seating. Now being July 1984, as I understand it this is when the first Mk3s entered passenger service, there being two rakes. I have not yet been able to find details out which vehicles these rakes consisted of, except a photo of a set at Cork in July 1984 shows Genny Van 7601 and I have those two photos of 7140 as a First. Now 7107 and 7110 are apparently from the initial batch of vehicles sent over from Derby Litchurch Lane Works fully assembled (this running from 7101 to 7111), so I'm still a little confused as to how 7140 could be in service so soon, unless some Mk3s were built in 1983, and also how quickly CIE decided that only two Super Standards was insufficient and at the very least branded 7140 as one immediately prior to it entering service it seems. I have since acquired a copy of Irish Railway Rambler, and in its section on Mk3s there is an interior shot of 7114 at Hueston in 1986, up-classed to a First with antimacassars and orange curtains! The text notes that requirements for First Class particularly on the Cork line saw not infrequent upclassing of Standards as Firsts. There is no mention of whether 7114 carried exterior branding like 7140. So it remains to be seen if any vehicles other than 7140 were branded Firsts while essentially remaining Standards internally bar curtains etc. I still don't understand IÉ's original plan for the Mk3s, hence why I would like to read the IRRS journals to see if there is any mention of it. Certainly to start with until the Composites (7165-72), were built it seems that most of the Mk3 workings would've been Standard Class only, presumably with 7107 and 7110 being dedicated to the best Cork workings rather as with the CityGold vehicles after they were converted in 1993. That's alright, I know exactly what you mean - it's so easy to misread something like that! From The Wanderer's site, the antimacassars can be seen on the seat headrests and it can be seen that the seats line-up: There's a photo of ex-First 7107 on the same site as well. 7110 as I mentioned seems to have been converted to a 72-Seat Standard at some point, while 7107 became a 32F/32S composite and 7157 remained a full First, both of the latter being fully declassified at some point I gather. Certainly from some lists of Mk3 set formations from 2003-2009, neither appears to have even used as a Composite or First being formed in the Standard Class portions of sets. Same here, I actually prefer it to 'Tippex'!

Not in a Standard, but in the orginal Super Standards 7107, 7110 and later 7157 they would with the 64-Seat arrangement. Certainly the seats line up perfectly in the photo of 7157 I've seen. Interesting, I wasn't aware any vehicles other than Executive 7161 had a cocktail bar. Certainly none of the ITG books mentioned that. Thank you for the list, that should prove very useful.

The 70 Class ones do look lighter - more akin to a B5 as you say.

I wonder if Issue 97 - June 1985 is a good shout, has a nice picture of an 071 hauling Mk3s on the front cover. Though likely an issue around July 1984 might be more likely the "right" one.

Thank you for the informative reply. Regarding the IRRS journals, which is an excellent suggestion, I don't possess any. I gather that you can get back issues from them by e-mailing them though? At least a look in their website suggests this. My only problem is which issue or issues would have such information as the older issues in particular don't seem to have the content indexed as with more recent issues.

Does the book say if any other Standards were up-classed to Firsts? Also, it's interesting that it says: "re-classified as a 1st with existing seating arrangements as demand for 1st Class travel built up following the introduction of the new trains", as the photo I linked dates from July 1984 which as I understood it was when the first two Mk3 sets entered service which suggests to me 7140 orginally entered service branded as a First rather than later being reclassified.

I saw this photo of 7140 branded as a First in a Flickr gallery a while ago, and I'm wondering if it's my eyes or do the seats not line up with the windows? https://www.flickr.com/photos/tramfan/14647733553/

I believe Mk6 motor bogie would be the designation for an 80 Class power bogie. They look identical to the motor bogies of BR Southern Region Electric Multiple Units and those power bogies (also fitted to Class 73 Electro-Diesels) were coded Mk. 6 by BR. The Mk6 is a development of the B4 design.

Thank you for the details of the working. I do similar today, sit/stand in a particular carriage so that on arrival I step out perfectly in line with the exit. Works well when my local is formed of a 4-car, the stopping marker is just past the exit point so the passenger door lines up beautifully! When it's a two-car you'll see me scowl: 1 - because if it's busy it can be a squeeze sometimes. 2 - But mostly because I have to walk further now!

I can well imagine staff coming up with some very colourful names indeed! I've since come across "bricks" for the 201s. A new one I came upon describing the then brand-new NIR 450s - 66,000cc shopping trolleys!

Thanks, I hadn't realised the Mk3 sets were orientated with First Class away from Dublin. I assumed it would be at the Dublin-end as with the Mk4 sets.

I believe only the Class 205s, as under the Southern Region designation they were 2H or 3H - 2-car Hampshire etc So most nicknames tended to be enthusiast created then? Does anyone know of any other nicknames for any of 121/141/181/071 or 201 Class locos? Or any modern IE DMUs/EMUs.

Thank you for clearing that up. Presumably that would be a Dublin-Tralee or vice-versa service then.

Presumably because 2600s were known as "Arrow Commuter"? I kind of like the sound of "Sputniks"! Am I right in thinking the 70 Class were the "River" Class? Presumably brought over from the BR Southern Region?

Does that mean they may get withdrawn entirely from both passenger and freight duties in the near future or am I reading to much into that? Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind.

It makes sense, I imagine that trains in both directions on the Cork road having to use the same individual platform must be operationally awkward since the Cork loop was removed. I wonder what they'll number the new platform. Will they renumber the whole station or just go for the next number on sequence.

I wonder if these will be more powerful as well as more efficient and environmentally-friendly. Weren't IÉ also going to re-engine the 201s with new, more efficient engines as well?