hexagon789

1. 071 Class 2. 141 Class 3. "A" Class 4. 121 Class 5. Modern IÉ 201 Class Which is interesting because if you'd asked me when I first became interested in Irish Railways, the IÉ 201 Class in as delivered livery would've been no. 1!

Some more formations to add, again purely based on bodyshells for coach types except all of these were clear enough to discern any "1" markings on doors hence a large number of sets now have Firsts converted to Standards in them as these are mostly from the latter half of the 1980s. 1987 Mon evening Westport-Hueston 071 Class-Std-downclassed Compo-Diner-downclassed 1st-EGV 1987 Mon evening Hueston-Westport 071 Class-EGV-Std-Std-Std-Diner-Std-Std-Std-Std Mid-1980s midday Westport-Hueston 071 class-Std-Std-Diner-Std-Std-Std-EGV Galway ECS late-1970s/early-1980s Supertrain 134-EGV-Compo-Diner-Std-Std-downclassed Compo-Std-Compo-Std Galway line mid-'80s unidentified service 087SA-Diner-Std-Std-downclassed 1st-downclassed 1st-EGV Galway line mid-'80s unidentified service 074SA-EGV-Diner-downclassed 1st-downclassed 1st-Std 10.1986, Sundays Westport-Hueston 071 Class-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-Std-Std-EGV Last one was observed at Athenry and is dated 1980s but I suspect it's actually 1970s (possibly 1975) as both locos are still in Black 'n' Tan: B169+B152-downclassed Compo-Std-Compo-Std-downclassed Compo-Diner-1st-EGV

Also a copy of the ITG book, 2nd edition (1989) at a far more reasonable price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irish-Railways-Traction-and-Travel-Jones-Peter-Very-Good-Book/254499088249?epid=86420886&hash=item3b4153e779:g:WN8AAOSwMWxeNC0F

Not exactly "odd" per se, but look at the price someone wants for a Doyle/Hirsch 1st edition: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Locomotives-and-Rolling-Stock-of-the-Coras-Iompair-Ei-Book-condition-good/353102835927?epid=87420448&hash=item523691b0d7:g:O3IAAOSwSU5e4PtP I know there's a 3rd edition still doing the rounds on Amazon at £50 but £180 seems a bit much! I don't think I paid anymore than £12.50 for any of the three editions. Or whisky I think that's liable to make one even more receptive to certain aspects of railway modelling stock!

Perhaps I should extend my query to ask if anyone has any formations of Mk2D sets by vehicle numbers they could provide I'd be very grateful. Ideally for about 1980-87 but pre-1980 would still be of interest.

Thanks anyway jhb, it just struck me as seemingly overkill with what would appear to be 4 lavatories(!), or a rather peculiar kitchen arrangement with a cross-vestibule through the middle.

A mix of Mk2Z, A, B and C types. The first set ran in February 1991 and they were all withdrawn in 2003 iirc.

I had this documentary on a video tape including 4 so-called British Transport Films. Coronation Scot (1936), Elizabethan Express (1954), Blue Pullman (1960), InterCity 1250 (1980). Elizabethan Express and IC1250 are certainly available on YouTube but Blue Pullman only appears to be in part. Elizabethan Express and Blue Pullman are among my favourites in particular for the musical scores, both by Clifton Parker and I would recommend both short films to anyone with even only a passing interest in railway or even general history. The drivers used to get some stick for those uniforms but they only lasted a few years. The London Midland Region had dark blue "battledress"-style uniforms, the so-called Milkmen being unique to the Western Region's Pullman Diesel Expresses. The driver featured in the film you've linked to Broithe, was sadly killed on the 1963 crash at Knowle & Dorridge, while a Pullman service it wasn't a Pullman Diesel set that was running the train having been replaced by the substitute loco-hauled set on that day. The accident was arguably compounded by Western Region semaphore signalling which permitted 90mph running on lines with normal braking distances sufficient for only about 70-75mph by requiring the previous signal box to the one putting it's home signals to danger to hold its distant signal at caution effectively producing a semaphore double yellow indication. As it was the signalman was only able to put his own distant to danger to warn the approaching express of the obstruction and sadly it couldn't stop in time.

To illustrate what I was getting at @jhb171achill, here is a list of Mk2D formations I've compiled from a selection of photographs from about 8 or 9 sources. In all cases I've only included where I can clearly identify ALL vehicles in a rake. Apr. 1975 1130 Gt. Victoria St-Connolly B167-Std-Compo-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 17.05.75 1130 Gt. Victoria St-Connolly 175-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 17.05.75 1430 Connolly-Gt. Victoria St 163-EGV-1st-Diner-Std-Std-Std 04.07.75 0800 Connolly-Gt. Victoria St B157-EGV-1st-Diner-Std-Std-Std 14.07.75 1450 Waterford-Hueston A20r-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-Compo-EGV 17.07.75 1730 Cork-Hueston A Class-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 18.07.75 0800 Tralee-Hueston 074-Std-Compo-Std-Compo-Std-Diner-Compo-EGV 18.07.75 1720 FO Hueston-Cork 175-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 18.07.75 1810 Hueston-Galway 032-EGV-Compo-Diner-Std-Std-Std-Compo-Std-Std 17.08.75 1030 SuO Connolly-Gt. Victoria St B174+B???-EGV-1st-Diner-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std 08.11.75 1130 Gt. Victoria St-Connolly 040-Std-Std-Std-Std-Compo-Std-Diner-Compo-EGV 18.06.77 1730 Belfast-Connolly 074-Std-Compo-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 22.06.77 0810 Waterford-Hueston 082-Compo-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV 09.07.78 1815 SuO Hueston-Limerick 075-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-Compo-EGV 05.08.84 1750 Tralee-Cork 078-Diner-1st-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV* 06.08.84 Bk. hol. MO 1315 Tralee-Hueston 082-Diner-1st-Std-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-1st-EGV* (*same set) 11.05.85 1340 Westport-Hueston 079-Std-Std-Std-Std-Diner-Compo-EGV 01.08.85 1440 Hueston-Cork 072-EGV -1st-Diner-Std-Std-Diner-Std-Std 22.01.86 0755 Hueston-Cork & rtn special 160+190+5410 (Diner)+5103 (Std)+5208 (Std)+5222 (Std)+5207 (Std)+5411 (Diner)+5606 (EGV) 27.04.87 1335 Connolly-Rosslare 128+131+EGV+1st+Diner+Std+Std 31.07.86 Hueston 074-Std-Compo-Diner-Std-Compo-EGV 12.08.87 Connolly (ex-Sligo?) 033-Compo-Std-Std-Compo-Compo-Diner-EGV 14.08.87 Howth Jcn. (Connolly-Belfast?) 079-1st-Diner-Std-Compo-Std Note - anything listed as a "1st" is a Superstandard and not converted to Standard. 5103 was the first converted in 1985. Anything listed as "compo" is based purely on bodyshells, it is too difficult indeed impossible almost 100% of the time to discern "I" markings on doors and so vehicles I've listed as such may be either Composites, downclassed Composites or those converted to Standards in 1973. Hence you can see the problems with not having actual vehicle numbers. Aside from that I hope they may be of use to someone as well as hopefully demonstrating what I was driving at in my previous posts

Out of curiosity, for the dining saloon, are the two sets of white/blank windows flanking centre doors lavatories or some form of kitchen/galley facility?

These are very tempting - but the question I ask myself is how many would one need to accurately model the Cork Road in ~1985-7? Particularly given the withdrawal of many 071 in '86 and consequent replacement by 'A's, Yanks and Baby GMs. I reckon, realistically, it's the whole fleet, no? But then that would be true of all classes wouldn't it!

You never know just when it'll snow... I remember it snowing in June once!

I've seen an article on the Turf Burner sonewhere I'm sure and I'm wondering if it might've been in an IRRS journal. I'll check in a bit.

No problem, it was trying to convey my exact meaning the first time but I think we're on the same page now Any information you can get at all for about 1977-1987 would be most welcome jhb, thanks very much.

I appreciate that things weren't fixed jhb, I'm more looking for a pattern with the AC sets. Obviously the pattern for 1973 is well documented, sets being EGV+1st or Compo+Diner+4 Stds but when sets became longer from the late-1970s that pattern obviously changed. As the Journal article states there were normally five sets made up in 1980, a sixth at busy periods. This arrangement produced lots of spare EGVs, diners and compos. From photos of the early 1980s, sets seem to have always been EGV+1st+Diner+Stds with some stds being composites either declassified or those converted I can't tell. I think what I'm trying to ask is that for modelling the early 1980s was it by this point normal for ALL of the 5 normal sets in traffic to have a full first with the composites all now being used as spares? The fact that the article says all six 1sts were in traffic seems to lend some credence to this theory? I can find only one photo on Flickr with a set having a compo between EGV and diner in the early 1980s, a bank holiday in 1983, but there doesn't appear to be first class markings on the vehicle and the set looks to be a hotchpotch so presumably the sixth "spare" set. This is one of the reasons why I'd hoped for a record of coaches in rakes from this period, not to try and assume a fixed arrangement of sets but rather to try and appreciate the method of working to arrange sets that would be prototypically accurate. Hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from now?

Two Small GMs on EGV+6, three of the "6" being diners, one composite and presumably two standards. Either the composite was declassified or it was one of the ex-composites converted to all standard in 1973 as the 1030 Hueston-Tralee was Standard only according to the timetable. I have a few examples of sets from the 1980s, the immediate pre-Mk3 period being that which I'm interested in but photos hardly ever show full rakes clearly. Effectively I'm asking if there was a set rule after the original 1973 set-up was changed, with only five longer sets of EGV+7-9 being made up, and how these longer sets were generally formed. If it interests anyone else I can list a few formations from 1973 to the mid-190s gleaned from photos but only coach types no numbers.

Thanks anyway, BSGSV - it was worth a try. Iarnrod was kind enough to scan the article for me and it's definitely helped in that I have a far clearer picture of how everything was utilised anyway. Seems to have happened with Mk3 sets as well and as the Journal article alluded to above states there were even instances of three diners being present in Mk2 sets. I think they also appeared on the odd occasion on Cork-Tralee locals, I'm sure I've seen a flickr of one being used as such.

While very welcome I'd be looking for more in Supertrain! That would be great and most helpful iarnrod, thanks.

Love the amount of prototypical variety you've got there, hope the "Chieftain" made it home eventually!

Hi BSGSV, I don't suppose Carse and Gray noted the individual vehicles in each of the Mk2 rakes in their survey? I would obtain the relevant journal myself to find out but that's sadly not practical at present of course. Having a list of exactly how those six sets were made up if it's available would very extremely useful for my layout project as I'm looking to model the early-1980s and plan to make Mk2 sets a big feature of that so I would dearly love to have as prototypically accurate formations for this period as possible. Thanks.

If anyone is on the look still for a copy of the Doyle/Hirsch rolling stock books, and first edition (1979) one going on eBay just now: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-of-Coras-Iompair-Eireann-Northern-Ireland-Railways/233593852317?epid=87420448&hash=item366347519d:g:YF0AAOSwTsNexSVu

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-of-Coras-Iompair-Eireann-Northern-Ireland-Railways/223981616103?epid=87420448&hash=item3426583be7:g:uGYAAOSw2T9emxOz

A heads-up if anyone's after a copy of the first (1979) edition of the Doyle/Hirsch Locomotives and Rolling stock book, one going for £9 + £2 p&p. Took me long enough to get all three!

Journal 101 by any chance (Oct. 1986)? There's a segment in the news section which mentions many 071s being out of action with frame cracks above the bogies. On one day only 2 were in service. There's a good photo of replacement traction during this period with double 121s replacing an 071 on a Westport Mk2d set, 10 coaches making quite a sight iirc. Sadly I cannot find that photograph again, but I distinctly remember the train make-up and the fact the 121s had replaced an 071. Not from the Journal, but I was informed the frame cracks were thought to be as a consequence of the 071s running at sustained higher speeds and braking harder (90 vs 75mph) and the track forces and braking forces simply took their toll on the locos more so than when they were running at the old 70/75 general limits. Whether this is true, I can't say, but the 071s were said to ride quite roughly at speed this eventually being cured by the fitting of yaw dampers from the early 1990s. Would the multi working have allowed triples? Very wasteful no doubt, but out of curiosity.

Very nice, the 20 looks bang-on