Supertrain livery

[Kirley]

I have been searching for information on the “Supertrain” Livery with little results. There are a number of specific questions I would like answered.

1. What is the “Supertrain” livery used on locomotives and coaches?

2. What “orange” colour was used?

3. When was it introduced and when was it superseded by a new livery?

4. Which Class of Locomotives was given this livery and did all the Class get it?

5. What type of coaches were designated for the “Supertrain” livery, Mark II, Mark III, Gen Van’s and were only certain rakes of coach given this treatment?

I’m sure this information is within the knowledge of Forum members and look forward to your answers.

Perhaps the Moderators may consider holding information on the various Livery changes in our railway stock over the years.

[Kirley]

Thanks guys for all the information, I have summarized it as follows:

 

1. What is the “Supertrain” livery used on locomotives and coaches?

Plain orange and black livery was introduced by CIÉ as a successor to the 'Black & Tan' colour scheme

 

2. What “orange” colour was used?

The orange used was slightly deeper than the shade used for the IR/IÉ colour schemes.

 

3. When was it introduced and when was it superseded by a new livery?

It was 1972 when the Supertrain livery appeared and it started to be phased out when Irish Rail was formed in 1987 although it survived well into the '90s on a few locos, with the CIÉ roundel replaced by the IR 'points' logo.

 

4. Which Class of Locomotives was given this livery and did all the Class get it?

The A, C, 121, 141/181 and 071 Classes and most of the B101s Sulzers.

 

5. What type of coaches were designated for the “Supertrain” livery, Mark II, Mark III, Gen Van’s and were only certain rakes of coach given this treatment?

The only coaches to receive the livery were the Mk2s and Mk3s, and their generator vans. It was 1972 when the Supertrain livery first appeared, along with the introduction of the Mk2 AC coaching stock and the first Supertrain Mk3s appeared in 1984. All other coaching stocked remained as it was, although the Cravens received a minor livery alteration post-1980s.

 

 

Please add any additional information or amendments you have, for example a RAL number for the Orange colour.

 

Can I add a supplementary question; Was the term Supertrain an internal label for CIE or a marketing one for the Public?

[Garfield]

Hi Kirley,

 

The 'Supertrain' livery is the plain orange and black livery introduced by CIÉ as a successor to the 'Black & Tan' colour scheme. I forget the exact year, but the change-over began in the early-mid '70s, and began to be phased out when Irish Rail was formed in 1987, although it survived well into the '90s on a few locos, with the CIÉ roundel replaced by the IR 'points' logo.

 

An example of an 071 in the livery:

An A class:

And some Mk2s:

 

I'm not sure of the exact shade of orange, but it was a tad deeper than the shade used for the IR/IÉ colour schemes.

 

The A, C, 121, 141/181 and 071 classes all received the livery (or the ones that remained in service at that point in some cases). A small number of the B101 Sulzers were also repainted in Supertrain colours, while others remained in the Black & Tan or black & white trim liveries.

 

The only coaches to receive the livery were the Mk2s and Mk3s, and their generator vans. All other coaching stocked remained as it was, although the Cravens received a minor livery alteration post-1980s.

 

JHBAchill, Mayner or some of the others may be able to provide more information.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Garfield

[Eiretrains]

It was 1972 when the Supertrain livery appeared, along with the introduction of the Mk2 AC coaching stock.

[Garfield]

It was 1972 when the Supertrain livery appeared, along with the introduction of the Mk2 AC coaching stock.

 

[Mayner]

Most of the B101s were repainted into the Supertrain scheme with a few early withdrawls remaining in black or one of the black and tan schemes.

 

I am not sure if it was a cheap paint job or underlying rust but most of the repainted locos faded to various shades of pink on the Inchacore sound barrier while the black and black and tan locos were the least faded.

[irishthump]

Sorry to hijack...

 

For how long after the introduction of the supertrain livery did you still have the black and tan livery on locos?

 

And when did the first Supertrain MK3's appear?

[Garfield]

Sorry to hijack...

 

For how long after the introduction of the supertrain livery did you still have the black and tan livery on locos?

 

And when did the first Supertrain MK3's appear?

 

Black & Tan lasted into the late 1970s (around '78 or so). The first Supertrain Mk3s appeared in 1984.

[irishthump]

Black & Tan lasted into the late 1970s (around '78 or so). The first Supertrain Mk3s appeared in 1984.

 

Well I guess that changes my layout to a "what if"!

[Garfield]

Well I guess that changes my layout to a "what if"!

 

Your layout, your rules!

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Most of the B101s were repainted into the Supertrain scheme with a few early withdrawls remaining in black or one of the black and tan schemes.

 

I am not sure if it was a cheap paint job or underlying rust but most of the repainted locos faded to various shades of pink on the Inchacore sound barrier while the black and black and tan locos were the least faded.

 

Did a Sulzer ever haul a Mk2 set?

[jhb171achill]

Yes, detailed answers above. A few random thoughts; the last time I saw a loco still in black'n'tan must have been about 1980. In 1976 / 7 / 8 when I did a lot of travelling on runabout tickets, they were plentiful especially on the 141 / 181 class. The 121's seemed to have been repainted earlier, and the A's anc C's definitely were, as top-notch expresses were all A and pairs of 121s / some 141s from 1972, in which year the "supertrain" livery first appeared. Cravens retained the original style of b'n't well into the '90s, when they had a white line applied below waist, and an orange one added along with the earlier white one above wondow level. BR vans were treated differently. They (uniquely) got the white line below the window level, but NOT the orange line above. Cravens never had orange roofs, but the 2nd hand BR Mk 2 coaches did, and the A/C Mk 2's while starting off with orange roofs (orig 1972 style) ended up once Mk 3's were in traffic, with black roofs. A, C, 101, 121, 141, 181 and 071 class locos all got the supertrain livery, but G and E classes didn't. The last G's went in '77, and the last E's in '86. While E's had at times the full black and tan, latterly all were plain black with white flashes above window level on the ends, and CIE roundel on sides. As stated elsewhere, not ALL 101's got the supertrain livery, but any in traffic late on did. The post-'87 "tippex" livery (b'n't with added white lines ("tippex", according to some wits in Inchicore at the time!)) was never on 101's - last had been withdrawmn in '78 after an IRRS tour. No C's ever got it either, as they had recently been replaced by DARTs. But the A's, 121, 141, 181 and 071 did.

In the early 90s a lighter shade of orange was introduced instead of the traditional "tan", which was an orange with a browny shade. IRRS journals of the early 60's consistently described the b'n't livery as "black and golden brown" or "black and brown"; this was somewhat inaccurate.

[enniscorthyman]

Did a Sulzer ever haul a Mk2 set?

I don't think the b101s hauled any mk2s as they were very

much sidelined to secondary work in the 70s.Its when the

071s were introduced in 1976 that they were started to be

Withdrawn.As a matter of interest a IRRS journal back in

2008 did a great article on the mk2d coaches and in

particular the photos of experimental liverys that were

looked at in 1972 for the super train livery.

[josefstadt]

The MkIId fleet was officially referred to as AC stock (air-conditioned stock). The term 'Supertrain' was a marketing name used to emphasise the step-change in quality between older stock and the MkIId vehicles. The original livery was a modified version of the existing black & tan colours carried by existing vehicles, i.e. more of the tan and less black, with no white stripe. As enniscorthyman notes above the IRRS Journal of June 2008 has an excellent article by Barry Carse on the history of the AC stock, including photographs of the experimental liveries. I'm not sure when the golden brown livery gave way to the brighter orange colour. The 'Supertrain' branding was never applied to the MkIII fleet.