Conflat wagons in Ireland?

[Darius43]

In have been wondering whether BR type Conflat wagons operated in Ireland or did the older style containers just get placed on regular flat wagons?

If they did it would be nice to model one.

Cheers

Darius

 

[Galteemore]

The CIE experts will be along in a minute. As for NIR, 24’ flats were produced in 1972 out of old parcel vans (‘brown vans’ I assume), nos 599-608. 15 tons capacity. 

610-612, 60’, were made in 1974 out of redundant passenger coaches. 30 tons capacity.

Building credit in both cases is listed as LMSR/NIR.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Galteemore

[Mayner]

The GNR(I) & NCC built purpose built flat wagons for Bread Container traffic from the 1930s onwards Jeremy Suter produced a single run kit of these wagons about 20 years ago.

CIE appears to have carried the older style containers in open wagons, before developing purpose built 20' Flat wagons for container traffic during the 1960s.

The GNR and later CIE introduced aluminium bodied containers similar in outline but larger than the BR containers for Donegal freight traffic passing under customs bond through Northern Ireland

BR containers in IRCH standard open wagons Studio Scale Models produce a whitemetal kit of the wooden underframe version of the open as seen in the photo.

Industrial Alcohol containers on 20'-11'wb-12T capacity flats. These wagons were introduced for container traffic (including Guinness 3 containers) during the early 60s, but converted to PWD use following the introduction of 20'-12'wb-20T flats during the mid 1960s.

The above photos were originally published on photo sharing site, I don't know the identity of the original photographer.

 

20'-11'wb container flat converted for PWD use. The Airfix/Dapol Cattle Wagon chassis would be reasonably close for one of these wagons.

 

[patrick]

Great information John. Must dig out the Dapol cattle wagon kits I thought I had no use for!

[Northroader]

Looking through the Midland Publications “LMS in Ireland” and “Rails around Belfast” there’s pictures of flats, lowsides, and opens with containers on Donegal Quay, and an NCC goods with two containers in opens, so “fair enough for a model” I think.

[patrick]

Having two Dapol cattle wagon kits at hand I decided to have a go at building a representation of a 20' 12' wb flat following John's suggestion. It came out so well I am now sorry I didn't spend more work on the solebars. They will be painted brown as John's photo shows and will receive a load of sleepers. The end stanchions will be applied after the deck is painted in order to make painting easier. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by patrick

[leslie10646]

When I started PW in 2007, one of my original quartet of Dapol Commissions was their BR conflat with a furniture container mimicking the GNR's dark blue furniture container.

I repeated it with container No.4 with a different conflat.

Then I embarked on my bread container project and did other Dapol conflats to carry two bread containers. Sorry that it is a movie which will take foorever to load up, but I can't find a still at present.

Anyway, the GNR built flats especially to carry bread containers, which DID NOT look like the British type.

It's probably too late to offer one now, although 3D printing might offer a solution. If I thought there was an interest .....

I've plenty of bread containers for those who are happy to repaint British conflats - two fit beautifully on the Dapol ones.

 

 

[Mayner]

There are some photos (not great quality) of flat wagons with Guinness containers at Kingsbridge during the early-mid 1960s https://steverabone.com/RailwayPhotographs/unknown_irish_photographers.htm

These containers were used for Guinness traffic to Belfast and Derry from the late 50s onwards, Provincial Wagons produced a model of the Guinness container separately and a (Dapol)?flat with two containers.

The  overnight North Wall-Waterside  "Derry Vacuum" was hauled by MPD railcars and occasionally a WT 2-6-4T between Lisburn and Derry after the closure of the GNR(I) Derry Road in 1964 and would have included CIE container flats in the consist.

There is a colour photo of a trio of MPD power cars crossing the Bann with a train of these wagons in "Diesel Dawn" (Colm Flanagan) and a WT 56 hauling the Vacuum in Irish Railways in Colour "from steam to diesel" Tom Ferris 1992. 56 is deputising for a failed MPD set, the consist is interesting with a long cut (approx) 10 container wagons leading a string of conventional open wagons, vans and brake van.

The 20' flats  would have been allover grey while used in revenue service as flat/container wagons.

 

[patrick]

The solebars started to bother me but this was soon sorted with the help of some filler, a chisel blade and sand paper. 

[Darius43]

Couple of Cambrian LMS 5-plank kits built up…

I think the brake levers will need to be moved upwards to avoid clashing with the door bangers.

Cheers

Darius

[Ironroad]

Hi Darius may I ask who makes or where did you source the containers? thanks

[Darius43]

Bachmann issue them as a pack of three.

Cheers

Darius

[Darius43]

Dunpaintin…

Cheers

Darius

[Darius43]

Another Cambrian kit assembled…

 

Cheers

Darius

[Darius43]

One-plank wagons completed.

Cheers

Darius

[patrick]

20' 11'wb flat with sleeper load.

[patrick]

The second flat fresh from the paintshop.

[jhb171achill]

On 20/1/2023 at 5:46 PM, patrick said:

The solebars started to bother me but this was soon sorted with the help of some filler, a chisel blade and sand paper. 

That very much looks the part.

 

On 22/1/2023 at 4:29 PM, Darius43 said:

One-plank wagons completed.

Cheers

Darius

Just right!

[Dun Aucht]

Bit late to this thread. NCC Bread Containers were fitted to flat wagons. The NCC used a different system of fixing the bread containers to their wagons than the GNR(I). It is one of the reasons the Inglis bread containers were different shades on the GNR(I) and NCC. It was an easy way of making sure the right containers went to the right railway.

Have attached photos and drawing from the album prepared by the UTA at the time of purchase of the NCC. As far as I am aware, the cattle container was an experiment to move cattle by road and not have to reload them into a wagon. There are two versions of container, the wooden one is marked for furniture and the steel one is just branded Ulster Transport. It obviously has had use judging by the dings in the body, but has been given a smart repaint for the photographs.

I have also attached a Henry Casserley photograph of a VS Class 4-4-0 at Dublin with a Raleigh bicycle container to the left of the loco. There are not many photos of these containers known, but Raleigh Ireland did move a lot of the produce from their factory in Dublin by rail.