Irish Railfans News - Winter 1963 to Spring 1964

[jhb171achill]

PART 1

 

The year dawned with a Papal visit to the Holy Land, and in an Ireland with a very different view of such matters nowadays, it may come as a surprise to many that the visit prompted RTE to charter two trains from Belfast to Dublin, to bring valuable tapes of the visit to Dublin for broadcast on the evening news! The train was as strange as the reason - a three car BUT set hauled by B154 south, complete with RTE headboard. The journey took exactly 2 hours, which in itself might interest modern day railway management, health and safety officials, timetable planners, and those who agonise over calculating driver's hours.... The following day the same three car set was again hauled, this time by B172.

 

In January 1964, despite deliveries, it was reported that the first "Craven" carriages had still not entered traffic. Inchicore, meanwhile, had started building "a series of new sixwheel heating vans to augment the present fourwheel ones". A hint therefore for modellers - no 6 wheel tin vans if you are modelling pre-64!

 

Steam had not been used much after spring 1963, but a few locos remained in use as heating units at main stations. Steam activity had therefore dwindled to a tiny trickle. In Dublin stations, Nos. 132, 151 and 197 were in use while in Cork No. 251 was used. The Dublin locos travelled under their own steam (probably all based at Broadstone by this stage), while 251 was hauled to and from it s position by a diesel pilot loco. B1a 4.6.0 No. 800 "Maedb" remained in Inchicore and had been repainted standard

CIE loco lined green in preparation for transfer to Belfast Transport Museum, following initial representations made to CIE by a UTA civil engineer who knew its significance very well! On November 20th 1963 she had been hauled to Sallins and back to ensure she was "freed up" for her jaunt north. On 21st February 800 was taken to Amiens Street where three days later she was formally handed over br CIE's general manager, Frank Lemass, to the Belfast Transport Museum. On 27th she started her journey north haled by B173 as far as Portadown. A long line of barrier wagons separated B173 from 800, on account of weight restrictions on many bridges, the Boyne Viaduct in Drogheda included. B173 had to the north side of the river before 800 went onto the viaduct. The ex-MGWR "Dargan Saloon" (always known by railway staff as "No. 47") went too. The next day "Jeep" No. 1 took the train to Adelaide where she remained until 18th April, when a ceremony of acceptance was held at Great Victoria Street station. I do not think that 800 was taken into GVS as such for the ceremony.

 

Other locos still in CIE ownership were 5C in Ennis, J15 184, GSWR 90 in Fermoy, 36 in Cork, and 85N in Dundalk. None of these were operational.

 

However, a number of other locomotives remained technically in stock, though unused, and in varying states of repair. Some were listed for scrapping and (technical) withdrawal (as actual withdrawal had already taken place). Some were listed to be retained for preservation or emergency use - at this stage the plan being that those to be preserved would be as static exhibits somewhere.

 

To be retained:

 

Amiens St: 132 151 197

Limerick Junction: 125 130 186

Thurles: 104 124 195 262

Rosslare Harbour: 461

Sutton (Tram Shed): 198 261

Waterford: 179 183

Athlone: 593 603

 

To be withdrawn and scrapped:

 

Cork: 118 251

Limerick Jct: 106 164 351

Rosslare Harbour: 249

Dundalk: 255 132N 204N

Mullingar: 131N* 172 599 (* To be retained untail after the IRRS / RCTS 1964 Steam Tour)

Mallow: 109 116

Sligo: 574

Athlone: 159N

Inchicore: 80N 111 187 463 42 and the old crane tank 365A (ex GNR 31), and the former Inchicore shunter "Sambo". What would the PC brigade call this undeniably black-hued locomotive nowadays? "Non white"? Or "Very very very very dark grey indeed"!!

 

In Cork, the vertical boiled loco from the coaling stage "Pat" was scrapped.

 

(ctd)

[jhb171achill]

PART 2

 

The 1963/4 beet season had concluded for the firtst time with no steam locomotives having been used. The harvest had not been as good as usual, so lower volumes had contributed to this. However, Thurles factory had steamed their (normally Mallow based) O & K Loco No. 3, assisted by one of their own diesel shunters. How did No. 3 get from Thurles to Mallow? Tullamore held a record for loading, with 85 four wheel wagons loaded there in a single day. There's one for modellers to emulate!

 

Demolition of closed lines continued to make headlines. Lifting was in progress on the West Cork system, three years after closure, with lifting trains hauled by a C class loco having reached Ballineen, where the loco was being stabled overnight. A rail-borne tractor hauling a few flat wagons had started work on the Castlecomer branch at Corbetstown. The Bagenalstown-Palace East line was also being taken apart, and in Co Meath the Oldcastle branch was now lifted beyond Kells. Finally, the Mountmellick, Birr and Newmarket branches were completely lifted, with Ballylinan, Banagher and New Ross to Macmine due for attention next.

 

Modellers dealing with this period might like to have a dirty C class loco appearing from round a corner in their terminus with a motley collection of 4 wheeled and bogie flats and open wagons loaded with old sleepers and rusty rails, lumps of vegetation possibly stuck to the sides... Power for lifting trains could be a rail tractor, a cut-down railcar, a steam engine or a diesel engine, the latter inevitably a "C". The West Cork was lifted partly by "C"s and partly by one of the Bandon tanks.

 

Oil lamps started to be replaced by new electric lamps, bought from Germany, and made of "unbreakable plastic".

 

Following trials from late 1962, it was now decided to unveil a new corporate image livery; the "black'n'tan" era had arrived. Readers will be well familiar with the details! The first items to enter traffic entirely in this livery had been the 7 later G(611) locos, Cravens, and 141 class locos.

 

A survey of goods traffic found that in terms of tons per annum, the following statistics applied;

 

Over 500,000 tons per annum: Dublin-Kildare

 

400k - 500k: Dublin -Drogheda, Kildare-Limerick Jct and Mallow-Cork

 

300k - 400k: Drogheda-UTA land, Dublin-Mullingar, Kildare-Carlow, LJ-Mallow and LJ-Ennis

 

200k - 300k: Mullingar-Galway, Mullingar-Sligo, Mallow-Tralee and Athenry-Ennis

 

100k - 200k: Portarlington-Westport & Ballina, Athenry-Collooney, Carlow-Waterford, Dublin-Rosslare-LJ, (interestingly) the Cork-Limerick goods via the Croom branch, and the Nenagh branch, the Castleisland branch

 

Under 100,000 tons per year: Branches to Kingscourt, Ardee, New Ross, Youghal, Cobh, Mallow-Waterford, Tralee-Limerick, Foynes, Loughrea, Thurles-Clonmel and Westport Quay.

 

From September 1963 to December 23rd 1963 the ex-SLNCR railcar "B" (now renumbered 2509) operated one of the local trains on the Nenagh branch, clocking up a mere 37.5 miles a day, but two days before Christmas it broke down and was now in storage pending repair.

 

The Stormont Government's William Craig "threatened" to close the GNR main line south of Portadown, but in the opinion of the IRN this was "for political motives"...

 

Ex NCC "W" class 2.6.0 No. 97 had been given a larger tender formely from No. 99 for use on the "Enterprise"; 97 had been overhauled in York Road along with "Jeeps" 5 and 52. Another two "Jeeps", 3 and 53, along with ex-GNR 170 (4.4.0) and 49 (0.6.0) had gone into the shops there for overhaul. In the meantime Vs class 207 "Boyne" had her brass nameplates removed and replaced with newly made wooden ones! A large amount of old coaches including two venerable NCC dining cars were broken up.

 

An eagle eyed spotter noted a CIE wagon in Larne on a bagged cement train serving Magheramorne cement works. This in itself wasn't unusual, but this wagon was 1211M, still with a MGWR wagon plate on the chassis.

 

On 12.11.63 a train on the Bangor line was derailed by a fallen tree. The unusual thing about it was that it comprised a single MED car.

 

The UTA operated two steam specials for rugby at Lansdowne Road on 7th December 1963. One had ex-NCC 97 (with larger tender as above) and nine bogies of ex-GN and NCC origin; the other had loco 58 and 8 bogies forming a strengthened "Enterprise".

 

The introduction of the 121 and 141 class locos, and their immensely greater reliability than the "A", "B101" or "C" class locos, had now led to a drastic reduction in the location of pilot locomotives all over the country. Note to modellers: layouts prior to this date, especially based on main lines, can have a "C" or a J15 sticking out of a shed on your main station!

 

Inchicore turned out a new dining car, No. 2403, of standard design, and it entered service on 22.2.64; one of the last passenger vehicles built from scratch at Inchicore, along with two first class coaches, nos. 1145/6. The change in coaching to all-steel construction was marked with the introduction to service at the same time of the first "Cravens". The first into traffic was numbered 1504. The first Craven coaches into traffic were included in the 18:30 to Cork on 10.4.64. The following day the same set formed the 14:25 down.

 

Inchicore was constructing a series of cement vans for the Drogheda Cement factory branch. These were to be "finished in light grey" with the new emblem having a light brown "broken wheel" surrounding white lettering and with white numerals.

 

The depressing reading on liftings continued into spring 1964 with the West Cork almost lifted back to Bandon, the Castlecomer line almost done, and other lines mentioned above in an advanced stage of deconstruction.

 

Since 1963 had seen a huge cull of rural stations on the remaining network as well as fully closed branch lines, sidings were being lifted with indecent haste all over the country. Whole station yards and loops were being eliminated at places like Borris-in-Ossory, Birdhill, and most of the stations from Limerick to Sligo, as well as Foxford. There's another tip for a layout based at that time (and which I remember well) - if you looked about in most stations you'd see the marks in the ground of recently lifted tracks. Some remaining sidings were left alone, but grew weedy and rusty - these would have been for refuge of beet and cattle trains on busy days. Kingsbridge station (yet to be renamed) recieved its trademark black and white tiles - the first of several stations to be treated thus.

 

York Road, or "Duncrue St Works" as the UTA preferred to call it, was busy. As well as a number of "Jeeps", they overhauled four ex-GNR 0.6.0s and 4.4.0s 170, 171 and 17, the latter for use on the "Derry Road". It was believed, however, that henceforth nothing but "Jeeps" would have any attention given to them. the UTA was doubtless busily forming plans to dispose of the "Derry Road" - as well as other lines - at the time. But the Warrenpoint branch was going out in style: Easter trains saw up to five steam engines in there on a single day on excursions. But on February 13th, the UTA's plans were announced - the draconian, short sighted mass closure of the Derry Road, the Warrenpoint line and all night time goods trains. All other freight bar cross-border CIE stuff wasn't to last much longer.

 

Sometimes the old order goes on, quietly, unnoticed, in the background. As these events unfolded, the elderly ex-MGWR breakdown crane, No.2M, was overhauled at Inchicore.

 

IRN issues often ended with notes of a specific journey undertaken by one of the several contributers and researchers. A nice account of a journey from Limerick to Ballina gives an idea of what was to be seen on the WRC at the time. B133 hauled two laminates, a 4 wheeled luggage van and an old horsebox on the previous 17th June 1963, a short time after Limerick-Sligo trains had been diverted to Ballina due to the closure to passengers of Claremorris-Collooney. Along the way another grey and yellow 121 was shunting in Ennis, and A14 was crossed with a southbound goods , and A52 with the Galway goods, at Athenry. At Claremorris B132 headed a Westport train composed of - in this order - a buffet car, two laminates, a six wheeled heating van, a four wheeled luggage van, and another laminate bringing up the rear! This rear laminate was being swopped with another for maintenance purposes. The train engine, on arrival, turned on the turntable and promptly departed with the Dublin goods - 43 four wheeled wagons and a brake van.

 

And that was that; the summer of '64 beckoned, and a new world of less mileage, more black'n'tan, and UTA green railcars..... we grew our hair long, got told off in school, and worshipped the Rolling Stones and the Kinks.......

 

Until next time.

[Eiretrains]

PART 2

Modellers dealing with this period might like to have a dirty C class loco appearing from round a corner in their terminus with a motley collection of 4 wheeled and bogie flats and open wagons loaded with old sleepers and rusty rails, lumps of vegetation possibly stuck to the sides... Power for lifting trains could be a rail tractor, a cut-down railcar, a steam engine or a diesel engine, the latter inevitably a "C". The West Cork was lifted partly by "C"s and partly by one of the Bandon tanks.

This is something that always interests me. The West Cork had effectively been closed by April 1961, but due to the extensive nature of the system with its long main line and branches, it was still not entirely lifted until 1965, some three years after the last regular trains had operated.

Those who have purchased Part 2 of the West Cork Railway Memories DVD will have enjoyed the clip (filmed by Brian Baker, and later by Tony Price) featuring C212 in green livery on a lifting train making its way along the CBSCR main line, which was by then grass covered with a shrub or two between the rails!

 

Talking of liveries, most photos depicting the C Classes on the CBSCR system are either silver or green, but the black & tan did in fact manage to reach the West Cork lines, albeit briefly on these lifting trains, as shown in this interesting photo of black & tan liveried C210 on a lifting train at a derelict looking Waterfall station (first station out of Albert Quay). C206 was another loco black & tan loco to be seen working such a train on the CBSCR.

 

Regarding the black & tan livery, it appeared on trial a little bit earlier, in 1961. A Class locomotive A6 being the first to be treated, appearing in the new livery in October of that year. Its 'A6' numerals were thicker than what was to be later adopted as standard in 1962, but A6 retained this oddity for some years until repainted, like many other A Class locomotives, in all over black by late 1960s, effectively moving from one inspiring livery to a rather drab one!

[jhb171achill]

Brilliant stuff, Ciaran - I must post a thing about the variations on "A" class liveries in the '60's. There were actually numerous variations including at least two absolute one-offs.

[RedRich]

Brilliant writing lads it's priceless. This is some of the best historical info I have read. Jack Kennedy in Waterford is library of knowledge from his years as a railway man and his memories are so vivid and colorful. What you guys have said is every bit as important. Please keep it coming.

 

Rich,

[Eiretrains]

Brilliant stuff, Ciaran - I must post a thing about the variations on "A" class liveries in the '60's. There were actually numerous variations including at least two absolute one-offs.

The 1960s really was a kaleidoscope of liveries and variations on locomotives. I've just remembered something about the overall black livery which you probably know already, but one for the modellers, some locomotives in the mid 1960s, such as A49 and A55, sported orange painted buffer beams, again it was something tried out but later dropped!

[Mayner]

Permissive Society, the Beatles and the Stone,s GM diesels, the begining of a new era, I was a bit too young to enjoy the former sure enjoyed the latter.

 

Talking about A6 there is a photo of a train in the new black & tan livery on what looked like the Kerry Road. Interestingly the train was made up of A6 a number of Park Royal railcar intermediates and the Persidential Coach.

 

For many years there was a large print of the photo in the MRSI clubroom and it also appeared on the dust jacket of Michael Baker's Irish Railways since 1916.

 

The photo looked like a posed publicity shot for the new livery, but sometimes wondered if the railcars were there to cover for A6 in the event of a failure?

[jhb171achill]

That's right Mayner - that was the prototype, and was taken there for publicity shots. The loco with orange buffer beams was applied in 1964 to A30, A49 and A55, but did not last long, red reappearing before long.

 

I have details for the A's in one of the IRNs, but I also have stuff elsewhere which I hope will give variations on C's, E's and G's. Depends if I can find it! Anyone among you who is well-organised - you REALLY don't want to see my study.................... !!

[Riversuir226]

209, 207, 219, 201 all in black and tan worked the lifting trains on the West Cork as well as the others mentioned, Bandon tanks 463 and 463 were regulars till Feb 63. The bantry pier was lifted before closure on the 31/3/61 but the Rest of the line was left alone till April 62 due a court case taken by James P O Regan. Lifting started in Bantry on April 9th, by November the Courtmac line was fully lifted, by x mas the bantry line was lifted as far as Drimoleague, by the end of 63 it wad after been lifted as far as Ballineen, by the end of 64 Waterfall had been done. By Feb chetwynd had been lifted, march spur hill and pouladuff had been lifted, the final section to High street bridge was cleared by April 1965.Crossbarry to Ballinhassig was lifted by Aherla lime works, Courtmacsherry to Inchy bridge used a rail tractor as well as most of the clonakilty line, the Rest of the lines were lifted conventually.Progress was slow due to reballasting across the lines in the previous years before closure. Other llocos used in the lifting of the line are

[Riversuir226]

I ll give a complete list, as its easier;)

Diesel - 201,206,207,209,210,212,217,219.

Steam -201,463,464 till feb63.

The last passengers was an IRRS munster branch special to Ballinhassig on October 28th 1964 hauled by 210th.

The scrap price for a Bandon tank was 500 pounds and delivered from inchicore was 700 pounds .

The furthest west the black and tan liveried 201's got was Drimoleague Nov 1962.

[Riversuir226]

I ll give a complete list, as its easier;)

Diesel - 201,206,207,209,210,212,217,219.

Steam -201,463,464 till feb63.

The last passengers was an IRRS munster branch special to Ballinhassig on October 28th 1964 hauled by 210th.

The scrap price for a Bandon tank was 500 pounds and delivered from inchicore was 700 pounds .

The furthest west the black and tan liveried 201's got was Drimoleague Nov 1962.

[jhb171achill]

Thanks for filling in those details, Riversuir - much appreciated.

[BosKonay]

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/content.php/330-irish-railfans-news

[jhb171achill]

Thanks BosKonay! I'm just seeing that the IRNs I have are all post-'57... must delve more. I have them from thee, bar one missing issue, up to the November '73 one which includes a letter saying that it's the last issue... The IRRS has a full set, as has a crony of mine.

[jhb171achill]

(I mean I have them from THERE..... onwards.......) typo

[Guest hidden-agenda]

John have you any info in the notes that relate to sulzer workings either the Bo-Bo or A1A ? It would be interesting to find out.

[Lough Erne]

I think there is a definite potential for a book along the lines of "the decline of Irish railways 1957-1967" which could be a historical background setting the scene with a conversational style text based on the monthly observations from the Irish Railfans news interspersed with photos charting the run down of the railway, lifting trains, infamous repainting of stations and point rodding etc along with that greatly missed of all closed lines (IMO) the Great Northern branchline.

[jhb171achill]

Gents... re, first, Sulzer workings: B113/4 spent most of their working life around Dublin, after their initial performance, when newly built, on the main line to Cork met with mixed receptions. In later days, in between lengthy spells in Inchicore they were used on North Wall / Heuston transfer freights. After 1960 i am pretty sure they were never used on passenger trains at all (not to my own memory anyway), and probably not much - if at all - after the introduction of the first AEC railcars, and later the "A" class, on main line links. The B101s were always synonymous with Cork - Rosslare, where they were regularly used on goods and passenger traffic. They were also to be seen on the Limerick - Sligo line from time to time with goods trains, but I am unaware of a single instance of them hauling a passenger train on this route. They made some appearances on the Tralee - Limerick route too, and almost certainly with the Limerick (via the Croom branch) to Cork goods, which ran until 1967. They were also used on the main line Dublin-Cork. The last ever passenger use of one - by this stage years and years after they had featured on any sort of passenger usage, was the 1978 IRRS farewell trip from Connolly to Bray with 106. I was lucky enough to get a cab run on that. The loco used, the last in traffic, failed very shortly later and was withdrawn. I could be mistaken, but I think I have seen a pic of one on a Dublin-Dundalk goods, but they were certainly unknown in UTA territory. I daresay they might have made occasional forays onto the Midland or DSE, but this would most likely have been on ballast trains or the sprayer. They also might have worked Dublin-Waterford via both Athy and also Abbeyleix - but I don't think they were ever regulars there. If I can glean anything else I'll post it here. They were very much "southern" engines.

 

And as to a book, Lough Erne... I was approached by a colleage about a year ago who had some very good ideas about such a thing, and I said I would collaborate as and when time permitted. Your post prompted me to contact said person again this afternoon, and I'll be meeting another guy on Thursday night........ watch this space. It was indeed a very interesting period. I suppose I might use this forum to ask anyone out there with pics of anything particularly old (within 1955-70) or particularly new within that period, to gimme a shout...

[heirflick]

this is one of the many reasons that i love this site.... the willingness of you lads to pass on such fantastic information on railway history! well done and many thanks!

 

johnathan, looking forward to part 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 8................................40!

[Eiretrains]

There are some excellent articles by Dan Renehan published in the IRRS journals of the past. He wrote one each for the A/C Classes, Sulzers, the GMs, as well as the E Class, recounting chronologically the history and operations of class;

E Class Diesels of CIE, IRRS Vo.14, No.84, Feb '81.

Sulzer Locomotives of CIE, IRRS Vo.14, No.86, Oct '81.

Crossley Diesels of CIE (1), IRRS Vo.15, No.90, Feb '83.

Crossley Diesels of CIE (2), IRRS Vo.15, No.91, June '83.

La Grange Locomotives, IRRS Vo.17, No.112, June '90.

 

This is just an extract from the Sulzers, one such interesting movement being recorded: 'On 25 August 1962 B112 took over the hauling of the remaining two Queens, Nos. 800 and 801, from the ailing A48 which had hauled them from Thurles; but the load proved too much and B112 failed at Portarlington, clear case of “dead” steam triumphing over “live” Diesel!'

Talking of the Sulzer operations, apparently 103 was the only loco to cross the border, reaching Portadown with the 1976 weed sprayer, it also visited Kingscourt branch at same time. As the JB says, only the ballast/spray operations took them off their usual territory.

[Mayner]

There is a great article in one of the IRRS Journals from the late 60s early 70s on operation at Limerick Junction in the Black & Tan era "A day at the Junction" I think the author was Herman Sherman, it goes into some of the operational oddities and train nick names, the Flying Saucer, The Soup and others

 

As far as I remember B101s were recorded on the up and down Limerick-Waterford Goods, railcars were still used to haul freight and parcels, the 3 piece AEC set on Waterford-Limerick passenger arrived with a couple of container wagons.

[jhb171achill]

That's a good piece of info, Mayner - one would expect an AEC set to be trailing a couple of "H" vans, tin vans or cattle trucks - but not container wagons. And yet, when you think about it, 4w container flats were about (just about) at the time... an interesting one for a layout.

 

I'm actually trying to find decent pics of AEC sets in traffic on peripheral lines at the moment.. not as easy a it might sound, especially colour.

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Any info is food not only for modelling purposes but to give an insight in to the day to day running of the network (when it was a railway).

[Mayner]

Possibly CIE or BR timber or metal bodied furniture or meat containers on 4w flats rather than ISO equipment. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/5-unit/unitload1.htm. In the absence of fast freight trains urgent traffic would have been carried by scheduled Mail or Passsenger train.

 

I suppose the big question is whether this sort of traffic was attached at intermediate stations by pilot loco or the passenger shunted the yard.

 

 

The GNR seems to have started the ball rolling in the 1959s containerising traffic for Donegal which grew into the Derry-Vacuum and Guinness Traffic for Northern Ireland.

 

These earlier container flats seem to have gone into Departmental service or were converted into sleeper wagons after the 20T flats were introduced in the late 1960s the accomodation units seems to be on one of these flats.

 

That's a good piece of info, Mayner - one would expect an AEC set to be trailing a couple of "H" vans, tin vans or cattle trucks - but not container wagons. And yet, when you think about it, 4w container flats were about (just about) at the time... an interesting one for a layout.

 

I'm actually trying to find decent pics of AEC sets in traffic on peripheral lines at the moment.. not as easy a it might sound, especially colour.

[jhb171achill]

I would imagine a pilot loco would have shunted wagons on or off where there was one - and there more about that place than many might think. Using the train engine would involve big delays in many cases, but would be necessary in out of the way places.

 

In Indonesia in the early 80s, when they were at much the same stage as Ireland in 1960, with little steam left, but the odd pocket of it, they also had locos in light steam parked all over the place and I know of several locations where in between trains, if there was a path, they would do odd trip workings up the line to the next station with one or two wagons. That made interesting viewing.

[heirflick]

[quote name=

 

This is just an extract from the Sulzers, one such interesting movement being recorded: 'On 25 August 1962 B112 took over the hauling of the remaining two Queens, Nos. 800 and 801, from the ailing A48 which had hauled them from Thurles; but the load proved too much and B112 failed at Portarlington, clear case of “dead” steam triumphing over “live” Diesel!'

 

any pics of that event eiretrain?

[Mayner]

It a pilot was not available, it would not surprise me if a Limited or Mail simply propelled back into a siding to pick up or detach traffic. Whether passengers remained on board is another question.

 

Although trains were dieselised and passenger stock relatively modern, operating patterns particulary on secondary lines were basically unchanged since the early 1900s, the railcar trailing a couple of wagons on the W&L or between Sligo & Limerick is little different from GSR or Pre-Amalgamation practice where a long string of vans on the tail of most passenger and mail trains was pretty much the norm.

 

John Kennedy once said a HST would have been no good to the MGWR unless it could pull cattle wagons and mail vans,

 

Funnily enough despite CIE fixation with the "no-shunt railway" short and long distance trip workings with older locomotives between major yards and private sidings is pretty much the norm in many countries.

 

Our local yard consolidates traffic from about 5-6 railheads and industrial sites, while the trips are scheduled running is something of a lottery depending pretty much on balancing production with export demand.

 

 

 

I would imagine a pilot loco would have shunted wagons on or off where there was one - and there more about that place than many might think. Using the train engine would involve big delays in many cases, but would be necessary in out of the way places.

 

In Indonesia in the early 80s, when they were at much the same stage as Ireland in 1960, with little steam left, but the odd pocket of it, they also had locos in light steam parked all over the place and I know of several locations where in between trains, if there was a path, they would do odd trip workings up the line to the next station with one or two wagons. That made interesting viewing.

[Cornishman]

It is rather a long time after the original posting but I would be interested if others with long memories could help me with a question. I took a number of colour photos of UTA and Guiness Dublin steam in 1963 and 1964 and my question is about international trains which I photographed at Portadown and Dunmurry on 25 and 26 March 1964 (the week after the Beatles "Can't Buy Me Love" was released, to follow up on the Rolling Stones comment). As they were taken in ďaylight I believe that they were WT 56 on the 09.15 Belfast to Dublin, and 57 on the 12.30 ex Dublin on Wednesday 25 March and W class 97 (with its higher capacity tender) and an unidentified WT on the same trains the following day. All four trains have a mixture of green and black and tan C I E stock.

At the time I noted the trains as the Enterprise rather than the stopping trains I now believe that they were. The UTA locomoties would have been replaced by CIE diesels at Dundalk.

So my question is, were the non-stop Enterprises already CIE diesel hauled all the way at that date or were some of them still UTA steam hauled to Dublin (97 was, after all, adapted to do this)?

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this.