Interesting Irish Scale discussion

[Galteemore]

One of my many weaknesses is picking up old copies of the Model Railway Journal on eBay if they have any articles which may be of use. Acquiring a clutch from 1990, there are some interesting letters advocating a correct scale for 5’3” modelling to allow use of proprietary track. Suggestions included 1:48 or 6mm. Indeed, no less a name than JIC Boyd joined the fray, with some illustrations of his 6mm scale Irish stock. Nor could he resist a pop at Cyril Fry and Drew Donaldson in his letter, finding their use of 7mm/32mm ‘visually unacceptable’. He also records measuring a CBSC wagon sunk on a bank in Waterford harbour! 
Interestingly, and I copy @leslie10646in for info, he derides the GNRI as being of little interest - it’s much too ‘English’ !!

The MRJ issues are 37 and 39, btw. Rather depressingly the bundle included images of Martyn Welch’s Hursley. You think you are progressing as a modeller and you look at what he did….what a reality check!!

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Galteemore

[leslie10646]

Interesting what James said about the GNRI. With JC Park from the English GN and then Glover and Howden from the North Eastern .......

Who cares? It was a wonderful railway!

"Railways" cover such a wide spectrum that people see attractions in all manner of places. I loved the "Southern" because it gave me a load of very exciting runs in my late teens / early twenties - even named my son for the designer. Then I went to Germany and had even more fast runs - and switched from toying with Irish modelling to Fleischmann. My son then got a German name to add to that of the Blessed Oliver.......

Then SSM came along and the rest, as they say is history!

I have been blessed with an urge to travel (steam logs from over two dozen countries), then after retirement, I got paid to do it! Even more things to distract me - Switzerland, the Trans Siberian (I paid for that myself) and China. I'm old and creaking now, but, boy, have I been blessed!

As our French cousins would say - "Vive La difference".

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

. He also records measuring a CBSC wagon sunk on a bank in Waterford harbour! 
 

 

I’ll get digging

[Horsetan]

18 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

.....As our French cousins would say - "Vive La difference".

Especially if you have an interest in French steam design....

[David Holman]

I've somehow got the full set of MRJs, right back to edition 0, so must look back on 37 and 39! Joined the queue to see Hursley at that Westminster show, not realising at the time that quite a bit of the stock was Gordon Gravett's. Hursley was one of the great turning points in modelling, while Martyn's The Art of Weathering remains one of my most referred to books. Published nearly 30 years ago, while Hursley was very much before static grass machines became available. My favourite picture is the one looking inside the empty loco shed. Minimalist it may be, but about as close to perfection as you can get.

[Mayner]

The scale gauge discussion in Ireland and New Zealand for that matter often revolves around the countervailing arguments of whether its easier to model to an established British Modelling scale and customise the gauge or to use an established gauge and customise the scale to model the Irish/Australian Broad Gauge and NZ/Australian/African 3'6" "Cape Gauge.   Proponents of the established scale and custom gauges often argue that that those who choose a custom scale on an established gauge model the track to a different scale to the rest of the model as in 9mm scale on O gauge or S on OO for NZ 3'6" gauge although the track is sometimes handlaid or assembled with correct scale components.

A recent local development has been the modeling of 3'6" to American O Scale on S Scale track to take advantage of Bachmann On30 American Logging locos and equipment used on New Zealands Bush Tramways or logging lines.

Australians who model (Australian) Standard Gauge in HO tend to use HO on EM gauge track for Victoria and South Australian Irish Broad Gauge, Western Australia, Queensland and Tasmania appear to have gone their own separate ways for modelling their states 3'6" gauge systems with modellers in each state adapting differing scales and standards, which makes producing rtr models of Australasian 3'6" locos and stock extremely challenging commercially.

[David Holman]

Gosh, life is complicated and that's why it's fun, as the saying goes! Hadn't thought about H0 on EM = 17.5 scale v 18.2 actual, though back to the age old problems of finding anything rtr that could be adapted.

 If I was starting again, 30 years younger, but knowing what I know now, then S would be very tempting and I love the fact that (in a purely imperial scale) the track gauge would be 63/64ths of an inch. And has been done of course.

[Horsetan]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

....Australians who model (Australian) Standard Gauge in HO tend to use HO on EM gauge track for Victoria and South Australian Irish Broad Gauge.....

For those going down the dead scale P87 standards route, the track gauge used is 18.37mm, which gives a true 5'3". Obviously the checkrail and flangeway gaps are much tighter.

[jhb171achill]

I never had the privilege of meeting Fry, though friends of mine did, but I toured India with James Boyd in the 1970s. Fascinating and very knowledgable character, with whom I got on very well (especially when the Tralee & Dingle or Isle of Man Railways were the subject of discussion), but I was aware that both he and Fry each in their own way were very prickly characters indeed - who couldn't stand each other. Drew Donaldson could be a bit that way too, and the very fact that he was friendly with Fry wouldn't have elevated him much in Boyd's opinion!

Don't we love our railway enthusiast colleagues who are as eccentric as just about anyone on the planet......................................!

.....and as we know, there's NO shortage of them today either........

[David Holman]

Eternally grateful for the knowledge they wrote down and passed on to good folk like yourself, JB!

[jhb171achill]

13 hours ago, David Holman said:

Eternally grateful for the knowledge they wrote down and passed on to good folk like yourself, JB!

They most certainly WERE knowledgable, indeed! And yes, this is to me the responsibility of the historian, and the antithesis of it is lazy or inaccurate recording of detail. While to many it doesn't matter a jot, if an engineer took that view then no locomotive could ever have been preserved in operational order...... the historian MUST get the details precisely right; once the job's done, those who want to use that info can, and those who don't need not do so........

Hence my own incessant whinging about wrong liveries on real-life preserved things*, or inaccurate dates about building, withdrawal, the dates lines opened and closed, etc etc etc etc...........yup, serially boring to many, but to a FEW it's vital to have....!

(* In Ireland, a big majority of things preserved are not correct livery-wise; some just in detail, others in their absolute entirety). This includes the "big three"; RPSI, DCDR & Cultra..........

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

They most certainly WERE knowledgable, indeed! And yes, this is to me the responsibility of the historian, and the antithesis of it is lazy or inaccurate recording of detail. While to many it doesn't matter a jot, if an engineer took that view then no locomotive could ever have been preserved in operational order...... the historian MUST get the details precisely right; once the job's done, those who want to use that info can, and those who don't need not do so........

Hence my own incessant whinging about wrong liveries on real-life preserved things*, or inaccurate dates about building, withdrawal, the dates lines opened and closed, etc etc etc etc...........yup, serially boring to many, but to a FEW it's vital to have....!

(* In Ireland, a big majority of things preserved are not correct livery-wise; some just in detail, others in their absolute entirety). This includes the "big three"; RPSI, DCDR & Cultra..........

Your knowledge is greatly appreciated here.