Censorship

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

How often are posts removed on the forum, I see @derek had one removed tonight even though it was ok, I had one removed last week and got a telling off about "bitching and moaning" and threatened with a temporary ban, I never had any interest in causing trouble but I still got a warning, is the forum no longer a place to ask pertinent questions? It's getting so that some members are afraid to comment on certain things which I think is a pity, I hope this post doesn't get deleted as it's in the 'anything goes' section. 

[DJ Dangerous]

A lot of posts get removed.

Sometimes, it isn't the post itself, but something like the timing, the wording, the context or lack thereof, maybe some innuendo, or even the interpretation.

I've had a LOT of my posts removed, but sure it is what it is. Agree or disagree in the heat of the moment, we have to respect the moderators decisions.

They have a lot of crap on their plates, both forum stuff and real-world IRM / A/S stuff, so sometimes have to make quick decisions.

One piece of advice, for both @Gabhal Luimnigh and @derek, would be to speak with the mods in private. Even though it may not be your intention, starting a thread last week on censorship, then another this week, may be percieved by the admin as combative or gaslighting.

I'm not saying that is your intent, and I apologise in advance if that's how this sounds, just that if you put yourself in their shoes, maybe you'd feel / do the same.

Again, it's probably something best dealt with in private, for your sake, ours, and theirs.

 

 

[Mayner]

Internationally is a lot of controversy these days about free speech and censorship people not being allowed to express their views.

One of the risks is that some postings particularly if they regularly single out or criticise another individual could be getting close to cyber bullying even if that is not the intention, requiring the moderators to intervene. 

Although we have an excellent free (no subscription) add-free Newsgroup there are two important things to remember before posting on the group .

1. The Newsgroup is owned and controlled by Irish Railway Models, rather than being an independent group.

2. Posters are required to abide by the rules of the group in the same way as free speech is governed by the law of the land in most Western Democracies

 

 

Edited July 19 by Mayner

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

A lot of posts get removed.

Sometimes, it isn't the post itself, but something like the timing, the wording, the context or lack thereof, maybe some innuendo, or even the interpretation.

I've had a LOT of my posts removed, but sure it is what it is. Agree or disagree in the heat of the moment, we have to respect the moderators decisions.

They have a lot of crap on their plates, both forum stuff and real-world IRM / A/S stuff, so sometimes have to make quick decisions.

One piece of advice, for both @Gabhal Luimnigh and @derek, would be to speak with the mods in private. Even though it may not be your intention, starting a thread last week on censorship, then another this week, may be percieved by the admin as combative or gaslighting.

I'm not saying that is your intent, and I apologise in advance if that's how this sounds, just that if you put yourself in their shoes, maybe you'd feel / do the same.

Again, it's probably something best dealt with in private, for your sake, ours, and theirs.

 

 

Define 'ours' ?

This is a Letting off Steam section 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

Internationally is a lot of controversy these days about free speech and censorship people not being allowed to express their views.

One of the risks is that some postings particularly if they regularly single out or criticise another individual could be getting close to cyber bullying even if that is not the intention, requiring the moderators to intervene. 

Although we have an excellent free (no subscription) add-free Newsgroup there are two important things to remember before posting on the group .

1. The Newsgroup is owned and controlled by Irish Railway Models, rather than being an independent group.

2. Posters are required to abide by the rules of the group in the same way as free speech is governed by the law of the land in most Western Democracies

 

 

Correct 

[DJ Dangerous]

7 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Define 'ours' ?

This is a Letting off Steam section 

 

Forum members in general.

By "your", I meant both you and @derek.

By "ours" I meant forum members in general.

By "theirs" I meant the admin / mod team.

 

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

Internationally is a lot of controversy these days about free speech and censorship people not being allowed to express their views.

One of the risks is that some postings particularly if they regularly single out or criticise another individual could be getting close to cyber bullying even if that is not the intention, requiring the moderators to intervene

 

 

The impossible balance between free speech and moderation. You can get it just about right most of the time but it'll always be too far one way or the other for certain circumstances.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

16 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

Forum members in general.

By "your", I meant both you and @derek.

By "ours" I meant forum members in general.

By "theirs" I meant the admin / mod team.

 

 

The impossible balance between free speech and moderation. You can get it just about right most of the time but it'll always be too far one way or the other for certain circumstances.

A censorship topic dealt with in private? I don't think so, I'm just putting it out there, you don't have to read it.

[DJ Dangerous]

4 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

A censorship topic dealt with in private? I don't think so, I'm just putting it out there, you don't have to read it.

 

I'll censor myself for tonight, so.

Or this morning, if I'm being pedantic.

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

With regard censorship it has to be noted that all things in this world, this forum being a minor part of the whole world, are consented to one way or another in the formation of trust relationships be they public or private.

There are terms and conditions when you join this privately owned and publicly accessed platform and that is the end of the matter, for anything posted may be deemed offensive by those you have contracted with. As we all have free will to contract, or not, with whoever or what ever we like, the moment we make that contract we are bound by its rules, period.

The problem comes with variance of opinion determining the interpretation of those rules, for instance I had a post removed from the Customs and VAT thread for noting that it is possible to use government* statutes to resolve the problem of being charged extra fees in the form of VAT and Customs Charges for buying stuff and also that it would require you to take those charging those fees to court.

(Govern; to control,  Mental; the power of the mind )

I'm not overly bothered that the post was removed because the moderators obviously thought it was in violation of their terms and conditions which is their prerogative and not mine according the to the terms and condition that I have agreed to and as such I have no standing in law to complain. I did not make any fuss about it as the moderators are likely busy folks what with dealing with my posts ! What I found strange about the post's removal was because it simply explained that by using another corporate entities terms and conditions you can save yourself being charged VAT and Customs which ought to be made known. I feel it a shame that such knowledge is not better know but again that is the prerogative of the moderators.

Perhaps this post will be removed also, should it be removed I would actually appreciate an explanation as to why as I might have the chance to edit the post to make it suitable to fit in around the terms and conditions although I doubt that assistance will be afforded as the moderators may have better things to do. I feel lack of explanation is the main reason for those that have posts removed feeling unjustly treated however, I appreciate greatly that providing reason may end up in a back and forth that the moderators will almost certainly wish to avoid. I certainly wouldn't blame them for that !

As we have all made contract by accepting the terms and conditions of the offer of the benefits of this platform it might be useful to understand why the word contract is used when accepting terms and conditions.

When in private we are all free, we have the freedom to think and do what ever we like so long as we do not cause harm, loss or damage to anyone or their property be that material or intellectual. We are free within our own domain, hence the word freedom which is a truncation of freedom of mind to do as wee please. When we contract and agree to terms and conditions of use then we accept that there are certain things we cannot do as we are entering another's private domain, i.e. this platform, and our freedom to do as we please is reduced as a result. In other words our the domain in which our minds may run to is reduced or if you please contracted. You become subject rather than fully spiritual and temporal, to put it simply you have lost your mind to another's will, the will of the moderators of this platform.

If you don't like it you are free to go away.

Should you abuse the privilege's afforded you by this platform you will first warned and eventually be sent away.

Its all done by consent and no one forced any of us to come here.

Yours honourably, beneficial of trust, not trustee,

Gibbo.

[NIRCLASS80]

10 years ago this forum basically had little reason to exist there were so few Irish Railway modelling products available. 
 

It’s great we have so much to talk about.  Sure I don’t agree with everything but that’s life, and with the world on the brink of another world war model railways are the most important thing!

[murphaph]

Basically this is not a blog. It's a moderated forum. You don't get to write whatever you like. Same on basically any forum I'm a member of.

[gibbo675]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Basically this is not a blog. It's a moderated forum. You don't get to write whatever you like. Same on basically any forum I'm a member of.

Hi Phil,

You are quite correct, should you wish to have a blog where you may say whatever you like about what ever you like you would have to set up your own web domain where you get to dictate the rules of that web domain.

However if you were to open it to public comment it may end up somewhat of a "bun fight" and it would have to have all sorts of disclaimers attached to it that would make the terms and conditions of this platform somewhat simple or you might be then in violation of statutes that govern so called free speech laws.

I say so called laws for the definition of a statute is, a law agreed upon, and even statutes require a form of contract drawing the individual from the private realm and into the public so that prosecution may take place. Subtle stuff but most interesting as a rabbit hole to be explored proving that governments, parliaments and even courts do not have sovereignty over the individual until such time as the individual submits to contract, but then only by way of free will.

Interestingly the term web domain contains the word domain, i.e. the domain in which your mind is free to do as you please and where no one else may tell you what to do.

The Devil is indeed in the detail, the devil [d'evil] is of evil and evil is live backwards, the details are the carrying out of the terms and conditions of any contracts made.

It is all there if you understand properly what you are reading however, and without wishing to patronise anyone, it does require a greater understanding of what most people think they know and understand about how words, whoever puts them forth, may be used against anyone else.

Gibbo.

[DJ Dangerous]

There's something very ironic about this whole thread, that I can't quite put my finger on.

[murphaph]

I was a member of a much bigger forum than this which catered to English speaking so-called ex-pats (immigrants) like me in Germany. It was very successful in terms of membership but I guess it didn't monetise well enough for the guy who started it all so he took an increasingly laissez-faire attitude to the moderation and this encouraged an ever increasing number of alt-right type posters to plague the site with their version of reality because this generated the traffic the site owner so craved for his google ad impressions commission. Users would argue back and forth with these characters but then the normal members drifted away until there was but a handful of us left and nobody was arguing with the trolls so traffic collapsed. The site finally closed last year. A new site was launched by some former members and it is well moderated and beginning to thrive. Moderation is the life blood of a decent forum.

[DJ Dangerous]

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I was a member of a much bigger forum than this which catered to English speaking so-called ex-pats (immigrants) like me in Germany. It was very successful in terms of membership but I guess it didn't monetise well enough for the guy who started it all so he took an increasingly laissez-faire attitude to the moderation and this encouraged an ever increasing number of alt-right type posters to plague the site with their version of reality because this generated the traffic the site owner so craved for his google ad impressions commission. Users would argue back and forth with these characters but then the normal members drifted away until there was but a handful of us left and nobody was arguing with the trolls so traffic collapsed. The site finally closed last year. A new site was launched by some former members and it is well moderated and beginning to thrive. Moderation is the life blood of a decent forum.

 

Quite possible that some of our members either don't remember, or never experienced, the pre-social-media days of well-moderated internet fora, and the inevitable consequences of unmoderated chaos.

God bless those internet cafes.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Interesting comments on here

[gibbo675]

37 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I was a member of a much bigger forum than this which catered to English speaking so-called ex-pats (immigrants) like me in Germany. It was very successful in terms of membership but I guess it didn't monetise well enough for the guy who started it all so he took an increasingly laissez-faire attitude to the moderation and this encouraged an ever increasing number of alt-right type posters to plague the site with their version of reality because this generated the traffic the site owner so craved for his google ad impressions commission. Users would argue back and forth with these characters but then the normal members drifted away until there was but a handful of us left and nobody was arguing with the trolls so traffic collapsed. The site finally closed last year. A new site was launched by some former members and it is well moderated and beginning to thrive. Moderation is the life blood of a decent forum.

Hi Phil,

Natural law in full effect there.

Should everyone have respected each other and their respective sensibilities and also treated others in a way that they may have wished to be treated themselves then I would guess that the site you reference would still be going strong.

The pendulum of the mind oscillates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong. Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism. The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are.

(Carl Jung)

Gibbo.

[murphaph]

3 minutes ago, gibbo675 said:

Should everyone have respected each other and their respective sensibilities and also treated others in a way that they may have wished to be treated themselves then I would guess that the site you reference would still be going strong.

Very true. Unfortunately the world deviates from the ideal, hence the need for police forces, courts and prisons  There will always be some people who, for whatever reason, are not prepared to treat others how they would like to be treated themselves.

[gibbo675]

7 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Very true. Unfortunately the world deviates from the ideal, hence the need for police forces, courts and prisons  There will always be some people who, for whatever reason, are not prepared to treat others how they would like to be treated themselves.

Hi Phil,

Should you look to others for salvation they will in time steal everything from you, I think that should you look more closely you will see that Politicians, Police Forces, Courts and Prisons are being dealt with by Natural Law as we speak.

It is not as subtle as it once was but it is becoming more and more obvious, politicians have led lots of people astray. Natural Law cannot be corrupted, only the corruptible may be corrupted. I do not take sides however, I do observe what is plain to see, that I point it out does not make me the opposite of what I note only the observer of what I note.

My position is central under my own clear conscience.

Look up, White horses between the battle lines, on a certain streaming platform, broadcast live from Sligo this very morning by the inimitable Sage of Ballymun.

Rather synchronous I would say.

Gibbo.

[Broithe]

As I've mentioned before, I 'moderate' another forum and it can be surprising how heated things can get. It hasn't happened for a while now, but we've had the cops call round at least four times over various threats, including a potential firebombing of a café, after the owner criticised some local healthcare activities...

I once had to stop two blokes organising a fight in a pub car park because one had made a joke about the fact that the other one had left the apostrophe out of the word "I'll" at the beginning of a sentence, making it look like "Ill" - the jokey way that he did this meant the the perpetrator of the missing apostrophe felt that he was saying that he made him sick...

We have people who find sport in causing issues - one chap is adept at posting ambiguous comments, then claiming that he meant the less obvious version, when challenged.

People sign up to start arguments, then sign up again to agree with themselves.

We have people immersed in conspiracy theories who consider that anybody who doesn't fully agree with their fantasies is being intentionally disrespectful.

Nobody ever censored that Hitler bloke on an internet forum, and look what he got up to...

 

Edited July 20 by Broithe

[DJ Dangerous]

3 minutes ago, Broithe said:

As I've mentioned before, I 'moderate' another forum and it can be surprising how heated things can get. It hasn't happened for a while now, but we've had the cops call round at least four times over various threats, including a potential firebombing of a café, after the owner criticised some local healthcare activities...

I once had to stop two blokes organising a fight in a pub car park because one had made a joke about the fact that the other one had left the apostrophe out of the word "I'll" at hat beginning of a sentence, making it look like "Ill" - the jokey way that he did this meant the the perpetrator of the missing apostrophe felt that he was saying that he made him sick...

We have people who find sport in causing issues - one chap is adept at posting ambiguous comments, then claiming that he meant the less obvious version, when challenged.

People sign up to start arguments, then sign up again to agree with themselves.

We have people immersed in conspiracy theories who consider that anybody who doesn't fully agree with their fantasies is being intentionally disrespectful.

Nobody ever censored that Hitler bloke on an internet forum, and look what he got up to...

 

I'm happy to volunteer some of my time and sign up if it's a bit boring for you on there.

This:

"We have people who find sport in causing issues - one chap is adept at posting ambiguous comments, then claiming that he meant the less obvious version, when challenged."

And this:

"People sign up to start arguments, then sign up again to agree with themselves."

...had me in tears!

You sure you're not talking about our own forum?

[derek]

Lads I never tried to insult anyone in that original post. All I said was that there are bigger things to worry about than the spacings of buffers a mill or two either way. I also said the models were great either way. So, I could get the hump and storm off and never post again, but I am not gonna do that. No, in fact I am just about to stick some stuff on Dereks Layout , so let's all head over there and have a look