"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

[Mol_PMB]

42 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

If there was even a powered and unpowered AEC, as they occasionally only ran in 2-car sets, we could fill in a centre coach with many options. 

Agreed. One of the design challenges for IRM would be how to configure DCC features. Their integrated one-chip system on the Electrostars and ICRs is very clever and ideal for a fixed-formation train, but doesn’t suit the AECs which could run in many different formations with a variety of intermediates. The model coaches would need to be through-wired for that approach to work. 
If I were to make my own, then I’d have a power and a dummy car and perhaps put a chip in each. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Agreed. One of the design challenges for IRM would be how to configure DCC features. Their integrated one-chip system on the Electrostars and ICRs is very clever and ideal for a fixed-formation train, but doesn’t suit the AECs which could run in many different formations with a variety of intermediates. The model coaches would need to be through-wired for that approach to work. 
If I were to make my own, then I’d have a power and a dummy car and perhaps put a chip in each. 

I think the old-school approach of having one vehicle powered with all the DCC and sound gubbins, and the other completely unpowered, bar perhaps a pick-up for lighting, would be the best or only option here.

[Mol_PMB]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I think the old-school approach of having one vehicle powered with all the DCC and sound gubbins, and the other completely unpowered, bar perhaps a pick-up for lighting, would be the best or only option here.

In my mind that would be the ideal option for an 80 class where all the sound and power is prototypically in one car of the set. And they were also of variable formation.

I think it's a pragmatic option for an AEC set too. Remember that the tail lights weren't used (and were soon plated over), so the only directional/controllable feature really needed on the unpowered car is the headlights. 

One big thing that's different between old units like the AECs and 80s, and modern units like the ICRs and Electrostars, is the number of visual and audio features. On an old unit, there's no requirement for many different combinations of head and tail lights, door interlock lights, hustle warnings on automatic doors, PA announcements etc. The prototypes just didn't have those things. But they did have variable formations - a much more obvious feature. So perhaps there is an opportunity for a simpler electronic solution?

I am mentally developing a design concept for an AEC railcar kit, mostly etched with 3D printed parts for the cab (including the driver's door). 

 

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

In my mind that would be the ideal option for an 80 class where all the sound and power is prototypically in one car of the set. And they were also of variable formation.

I think it's a pragmatic option for an AEC set too. Remember that the tail lights weren't used (and were soon plated over), so the only directional/controllable feature really needed on the unpowered car is the headlights. 

One big thing that's different between old units like the AECs and 80s, and modern units like the ICRs and Electrostars, is the number of visual and audio features. On an old unit, there's no requirement for many different combinations of head and tail lights, door interlock lights, hustle warnings on automatic doors, PA announcements etc. The prototypes just didn't have those things. But they did have variable formations - a much more obvious feature. So perhaps there is an opportunity for a simpler electronic solution?

I am mentally developing a design concept for an AEC railcar kit, mostly etched with 3D printed parts for the cab (including the driver's door). 

100% on all that, yes. You could add the 70 class to the initial observation. (For a model of an MED, for sound, just turn up full volume any audio recording of white noise on an abrasive surface, tumbling down an aluminium staircase in an echo chamber........ (and that's when you're sitting inside it, whilst being asphixiyated by a mix of stale cigarette smoke and diesel fumes.....). At least in a 70 or 80 class power car, all you had to worry about was the cigarette smoke,  being deafened by rattling window vibrations, and your eyeballs being shaken out of their sockets by same.... But, I hear "Hellfire! Thrash!" from our younger members; just be careful what you wish for, folks, and be thankful you never had a daily commute in one....  I digress;

An AEC in some shape or form is as utterly essential for ANY layout-  north or south - in the 1950-1970 period, and over a decade longer for unpowered push-pull AEC cars on CIE. The GNR and CIE had them in the early 1950s; the GNR cars ended up being split between the UTA & CIE, with the former lasting well into the NIR era. For our younger audiences, these things were used on main line trains and commuter trains, and even West Cork and the Waterford-Tramore lines. On three occasions at least, they even traversed the remote Roughty Valley to get to Kenmare for GAA specials! They ran through crowded Belfast and Dublin suburbs, and the fields of Sligo, Mayo, Galway, Kerry and Tyrone and Derry. A layout within the period 1953-1970 is as incomplete without AEC cars as a contemporary layout based in the west of Ireland is without an ICR, or contemporary Dublin Connolly without a DART.

So, Mol, we look forward with customary drooling to your AEC project in development!

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

So, Mol, we look forward with customary drooling to your AEC project in development!

I will be telling their story at the IRRS Manchester Branch on 19th November:

CIE AEC Railcars by Paul Molineux - Irish Railway Record Society

Thanks to all of those on this forum and elsewhere who have allowed me to use their photos in the talk.

I'm also hoping to have a closer look at the surviving vehicle at Downpatrick later this month.

[Mol_PMB]

The model design is in very early stages at present - I haven't actually started drawing anything. I'm just thinking about what the main assemblies will be, where the joints and splits will occur and how the parts will be folded, curved and fixed together. In due course I'll need someone to help me with the 3D model of the cab front, but I can provide plenty of cross-sections to form the basis of it. 

I've been looking at power bogie options too - with various possibilities including diesel power bogies, black beetle, or a custom etch using High Level parts.

I have several drawings of the GNR and CIE variants, none of them perfect, but with an index of over 600 photos I'm sure I can develop something that's close enough.

 

[Rob R]

Paul,

Happy to help where I can with the 3d aspect of this project.

Rob

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, Rob R said:

Paul,

Happy to help where I can with the 3d aspect of this project.

Rob

Hi Rob, many thanks, that's great! I was hoping you would be interested. No rush though, I'm at the very early stages of working it out.

[lucas]

7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I am mentally developing a design concept for an AEC railcar kit, mostly etched with 3D printed parts for the cab (including the driver's door). 

I had actually thought of doing something similar. I'm sure you're a lot more experienced with etch design than I am, but I'm happy to help with the CAD/3D printing.

I had started messing around in CAD some months ago to try and get the cab shape right, but haven't worked on it in a while now.

Below is as far as I'd gotten. It doesn't have any real detail, and the shape still looks a little off to me.

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, lucas said:

I had actually thought of doing something similar. I'm sure you're a lot more experienced with etch design than I am, but I'm happy to help with the CAD/3D printing.

I had started messing around in CAD some months ago to try and get the cab shape right, but haven't worked on it in a while now.

Below is as far as I'd gotten. It doesn't have any real detail, and the shape still looks a little off to me.

 

Great, looks like we might have a team coming together. I agree, you haven't quite nailed the shape yet. I only work in 2D but will try and draw some cross-sections that can perhaps be a guide to the 3D model development. 

[lucas]

1 minute ago, Mol_PMB said:

Great, looks like we might have a team coming together. I agree, you haven't quite nailed the shape yet. I only work in 2D but will try and draw some cross-sections that can perhaps be a guide to the 3D model development. 

Absolutely. I was mostly just eyeballing it so having some proper cross sections would be a big help