Cork, Blackrock & Passage Railway

[Colin R]

Hi Guys

I need your help, I think I have almost all the published information about the above railway, but I am missing photos or plans of some of the bogie coaching stock.

What I have I also happen to have all of the types produced by Worsley Works in OOn3 ie bogie 1st or 3rd (same body shell) I also have Saloon No 10, and finally I also have 3rd Brake No 33 (the rebuilt version).

Saloon No10 was different to all the others, from what I can make out, it had an extra compartment whereas all the other saloons only had one compartment.

Coming on to the bogie 1st or 3rd class brake coaches it is not clear just how many compartments each of these had since I don't happen to have any photos of this type of coach.

Another 3rd class coach saloon had just two compartments but looked like a normal 6-compartment coach on the outside, but it only had two doors per side in the middle of each compartment.

In all, I think there are seven coaches that I don't have any details of, so if you guys have anything about the stock from this line.

Thank you all in advance for any help given.

 

Regards

Colin Rainsbury

[Rob R]

Colin,

A quick trawl through the NLI (and the interweb generally):

Carrigaline

A trainful

Crosshaven

and a few in here (re-opening day at Passage West?)

Album

 

Rob

Edited December 6, 2024 by Rob R
Duplicate link

[Colin R]

HI Rob.

Thank you for finding the album photos. It now poses a new problem, in that there is a photo in there of coach No 42 of the CB&PR. As far as I knew, they didn't have one with a number going that high but stopping at 36, I also knew that they missed out on a few coach numbers, but unless that is down to the research in the past, I think they only had about 28 coaches in total.

 

Regards

Colin

[leslie10646]

Is Coach 24 one of your missing ones, Colin? Henry Casserley photographed it in 1932 and as I (The Syndicate) have both a Glass negative of it and a normal negative of it, I should be able to oblige. I don't seem to have scanned it yet.

Let me know.

Leslie

[Rob R]

Colin,

I wonder if the ng coaches were numbered in the same series as the ng coaches when delivered and then re-numbered later when the bg had gone?

Rob

[Mol_PMB]

48 minutes ago, Rob R said:

Colin,

I wonder if the ng coaches were numbered in the same series as the ng coaches when delivered and then re-numbered later when the bg had gone?

Rob

As far as I'm aware the locos were not renumbered though. Was there any non-passenger carrying coaching stock (horse boxes, carriage trucks etc) that may have been numbered in the carriage series?

[Colin R]

The only stock list I have is from Joe Begley and Steve Flanders's book Ireland's Narrow Gauge Railway. It has 28 coaches and 34 wagons, and that is all.

Colin

[Rob R]

Colin,

Don't know if there is anything in here that may help.

Colm Creedon

Rob

[Westcorkrailway]

13 minutes ago, Rob R said:

Colin,

Don't know if there is anything in here that may help.

Colm Creedon

Rob

Fantastic collection that. Always something I delve into the odd time and find something new every time 

[Colin R]

Wow part of me could not find any new photos, but those notes need to be republished in a new book along with drawings and details of the Railway that has appeared in the model railway press over time. I bet there is still more to be found locally in Cork.

Colin

 

[jhb171achill]

If it’s of any help, livery details for CBPR carriages were - mud grey roofs, black chassis, dark green sides, probably with yellow lining but lining colour not reliably documented anywhere I’m aware of.

Ends almost certainly green too.

From looking at pigments, I believe the green was probably something like what British Railways had onnsteam engines in the 1950s.

Locos were black, with red lining.

On takeover by the GSR, the four locos were painted grey pretty quickly, and the carriages painted in full GSR maroon livery. Even many of the station signs were quickly replaced by standard GSR bilingual enamels.

On the subject of GSR coach B livery, while the standard was black coach ends, I’ve found quite a few instances of the dnds being maroon as well, often on narrow gauge types. With several Passage coaches having observation ends, I wouldn’t be surprised if all stock on that line was like that.

[Colin R]

Hi JBH

I have yet to see any of the CB&PR observation coaches with black ends, I am not sure about non-observation ends but looking at various photos I don't think any CB&PR coaches were so treated,

As you have pointed out, having two distinct liveries makes for an interesting dilemma. Should I go for Green Coaches or GSR Maroon? On the whole, I am thinking more in terms of most of the free state stock in Maroon, whereas the Donegal stock may turn out in Red and Cream. The early Swilly livery of Salmon Pink and Brown sides with Red crimson ends also appeals.

This will then leave me with what colour do I do the Ballycastle stock

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Colin R said:

Hi JBH

I have yet to see any of the CB&PR observation coaches with black ends, I am not sure about non-observation ends but looking at various photos I don't think any CB&PR coaches were so treated,

As you have pointed out, having two distinct liveries makes for an interesting dilemma. Should I go for Green Coaches or GSR Maroon? On the whole, I am thinking more in terms of most of the free state stock in Maroon, whereas the Donegal stock may turn out in Red and Cream. The early Swilly livery of Salmon Pink and Brown sides with Red crimson ends also appeals.

This will then leave me with what colour do I do the Ballycastle stock

The Ballycastle Rly Co was GWR-style brown and cream - original BR stock which I think was all six-wheeled. After takeover it was standard Midland Railway (England) - later unlined LMS maroon of similar shade, on the ex-B&L stock brought in for the reopening.

After the UTA took over, they repainted several locos but none of the carriages ever got UTA green, as the line was closed 18 months later.

2 hours ago, Colin R said:

Should I go for Green Coaches or GSR Maroon? 

Aim for 1925/6 and you’d have a mixture, as not everything was repainted at once!

[airfixfan]

Ballycastle Railway had one bogie coach for 100 passengers. All their coaches scrapped in 1924

[Newtoncork]

Were they sitting on each others laps? How could a narrow gauge railway have such a high capacity coach?

 

[Colin R]

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Ballycastle Railway had one bogie coach for 100 passengers. All their coaches scrapped in 1924

I am not sure which coach could hold 100 passengers, but they sure did have three coaches that could carry 80 passengers in eight compartments.

As I understand it I think the tourist coaches on the West Clare Railway had three liveries:

1 all over green

2 green lower panels and white/cream window frames

3 Red/maroon lower panels and white/cream window frames

The end of the carriages was as the livery around the sides where windows are concerned. If there were no windows then the main colour was used at the end of the coach. 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Ballycastle Railway had one bogie coach for 100 passengers. All their coaches scrapped in 1924

Correct - I had forgotten about that one! And it probably had the least legroom between seats of any carriage in Ireland!

2 hours ago, Newtoncork said:

Were they sitting on each others laps? How could a narrow gauge railway have such a high capacity coach?

 

Pretty much!

56 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I am not sure which coach could hold 100 passengers, but they sure did have three coaches that could carry 80 passengers in eight compartments.

As I understand it I think the tourist coaches on the West Clare Railway had three liveries:

1 all over green

2 green lower panels and white/cream window frames

3 Red/maroon lower panels and white/cream window frames

The end of the carriages was as the livery around the sides where windows are concerned. If there were no windows then the main colour was used at the end of the coach. 

I’m not sure if the West Clare ever had red - I’d need to check, but what I am aware of is that the GSR used used the very dark brownish-maroon “crimson lake” to repaint them all after 1925.

[Colin R]

12 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Ballycastle Railway had one bogie coach for 100 passengers. All their coaches scrapped in 1924

What was its number, please?

Colin

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, Colin R said:

What was its number, please?

Colin

No. 14 

21 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Ballycastle Railway had one bogie coach for 100 passengers. All their coaches scrapped in 1924

They also had a 38ft brake 3rd bogie…

Edited December 22, 2024 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

This - 

[Colin R]

Hum cosy, to say the least at 12/13 people per compartment. In the Begley/ Flander book, they have that down only to carry 80 passengers.

The book also indicates there were two others of the same size but built in 1896 and 1898, they would make nice brass etched kits in OOn3