Adapting British wagons to Irish prototypes

jhb171achill · April 2

Just putting up a few notes here, triggered by conversations following the introduction of Leslie’s latest wagon releases.

The lack of anything suitable for a BCDR layout has been mentioned, in response to which mention was made of a Kernow-made brake van that could double as a BCDR one.

Between Provincial, JM Design and IRM, much attention has been paid to CIE (and constituent) and GNR stock, but not so much to the smaller companies like the NCC and BCDR. With a seemingly growing interest in the UTA area, I’ll post the odd thing here if I see wagons that might fit that bill - conversion or repaints of off-the-shelf British stuff to look at least vaguely Irish.

Of course, Provincial Wagons have got the ball rolling with the famous and unique NCC “brown van”….

Any other ideas?

Edited April 2 by jhb171achill

Tullygrainey · April 2

As a modeller of the BCDR, I’m always on the lookout for RTR models or kits that could be hacked into something approximating County Down stock and I have to say the pickings are pretty slim both for locomotives and rolling stock. Honourable mention must be made here of @leslie10646's Dapol conversions of BCDR opens and EDSS coal wagons which were/are beacons of hope in an otherwise empty space. More often than not, scratch building is the better option. Even that Kernow brake van will need a fair bit of work.

As regards rolling stock, one of the most prominent features but also one of the biggest modelling challenges is the outside W-irons commonly seen on BCDR stock. If these are present on a model, it’s already well on the way to being convincingly BCDR to the extent that other inaccuracies can become less noticeable.

I have used an etch from Dart Castings’ MJT range to model W-irons but it requires a tedious amount of cutting and soldering to produce something convincing yet even then not quite accurate. I have searched in vain for ready made etches that might make the job a bit easier.

To end on a less pessimistic note, a Midland Railways 8 ton 3 plank drop side wagon from Slater's 4mm range of plastic kits provides a reasonable basis for a BCDR 8 ton open.

Alan

Edited April 2 by Tullygrainey

David Holman · April 3

I think the RCH tank wagon, of Irish Shell and others was one of the very few types to make it across the water. I made one from the Slater's kit for Northport Quay, but it is a static model at the moment because clearances for 36.75mm gauge are too tight for its very prototypical chassis.

Mayner · April 3

Back in the day would you believe 2013-14 Nelson Jackson as a teenager built some convincing models of NCC and possibly BCDR stock complete with their distinctive outside W Irons using a mixture of kit bashing and scratchbuilding techniques. Outside W irons seem to have been fabricated out of plasticard.

Also built a NIR 70Class railcar set & British outline stock, all to a consistentlly high standard of modelling

jhb171achill · April 3

19 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Back in the day would you believe 2013-14 Nelson Jackson as a teenager built some convincing models of NCC and possibly BCDR stock complete with their distinctive outside W Irons using a mixture of kit bashing and scratchbuilding techniques. Outside W irons seem to have been fabricated out of plasticard.

Also built a NIR 70Class railcar set & British outline stock, all to a consistentlly high standard of modelling

I remember that. Especially for a teen, Nelson’s stuff was inspirational.

Tullygrainey · April 3

34 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Back in the day would you believe 2013-14 Nelson Jackson as a teenager built some convincing models of NCC and possibly BCDR stock complete with their distinctive outside W Irons using a mixture of kit bashing and scratchbuilding techniques. Outside W irons seem to have been fabricated out of plasticard.

Also built a NIR 70Class railcar set & British outline stock, all to a consistentlly high standard of modelling

@Dunluce Castle Nelson's W-irons in 20 thou plastic are masterpieces. I always reckoned that was impossible!

jhb171achill · April 3

2 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

@Dunluce Castle Nelson's W-irons in 20 thou plastic are masterpieces. I always reckoned that was impossible!

As one who modelled extensively with plasticard in MY teens, I couldn’t agree more!

Mol_PMB · April 12

I was looking at tank wagons today. I've come to the conclusion that the Oxford Rail tank wagon (which has been recently re-released) is near-identical to the smaller-diameter Irish Shell tank wagons, one of which is preserved by the RPSI.

Here's the prototype, this isn't actually the RPSI one but it's the same; these are to the 1907 RCH standard and the photo dates from 1964 so they had a good long life:

Here's the model:

Here's the preserved one:

For OO gauge this would just need re-lettering on the tank.

I wonder how hard it would be to widen the frames for 21mm, and hide the join in the middle?

jhb171achill · April 13

17 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I was looking at tank wagons today. I've come to the conclusion that the Oxford Rail tank wagon (which has been recently re-released) is near-identical to the smaller-diameter Irish Shell tank wagons, one of which is preserved by the RPSI.

Here's the prototype, this isn't actually the RPSI one but it's the same; these are to the 1907 RCH standard and the photo dates from 1964 so they had a good long life:

Here's the model:

Here's the preserved one:

For OO gauge this would just need re-lettering on the tank.

I wonder how hard it would be to widen the frames for 21mm, and hide the join in the middle?

Yes, very much so. Unusually, some Irish tank wagons were actually built by British firms like Charles Roberts, whereas the vast, vast majority of non-passenger stock was built here.

I’ve two of these things and they look the part.

raymurph · April 14

The Oxford tank wagon is very tempting. I prefer these short Irish Shell tanks to the Heljan Esso ones available from IRM.

How would I go about converting them? I've seen modellers rub off existing decals (Naval Store) with IPA . Are 'Irish Shell' transfers available?

I didn't want to widen the frame.

And lastly how likely are IRM to release one of these shorter tanks in a year or two?

Mol_PMB · April 14

1 hour ago, raymurph said:

The Oxford tank wagon is very tempting. I prefer these short Irish Shell tanks to the Heljan Esso ones available from IRM.

How would I go about converting them? I've seen modellers rub off existing decals (Naval Store) with IPA . Are 'Irish Shell' transfers available?

I didn't want to widen the frame.

And lastly how likely are IRM to release one of these shorter tanks in a year or two?

I've seen reference to Irish Shell transfers available from SSM, but I can't see them on the website. Custom transfers are easy and cheap though.

It would certainly be a possibility for IRM to partner with Oxford in the same way that they have done with Heljan; that may be easier now that Oxford is independent of Hornby.

But I don't have a crystal ball as to whether that might occur.

I quite fancy an older class B (black) tank wagon to provide fuel for the imaginary fishing boats on my imaginary Fenit layout.

Mol_PMB · April 14

There are some more photos and info on the Irish Shell wagons in N.I.L. 3.2 November 2002, available to read here:

Archive | New Irish Lines

edit: also see N.I.L. 2.6 November 2001 for more on Irish tank wagons and some further references.

Edited April 14 by Mol_PMB

Mol_PMB · April 14

CIE had some of these smaller tanks to the RCH 1907 regulations too:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510434252

There were also larger Class A tanks (silver, for less dense products with a lower flash point) and some of the newer ones (1930s onwards) were pretty similar to the Dapol 'Air Ministry' tanks recently released in both 7mm and 4mm scales.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527313/in/album-72157661623942928