Class 201 - Lima v Bachmann/Murphy differences

[Noel]

Hi Folks

From a running point of view what are the main differences between the original Lima 201s and the later Murphy Model (Bachmann) 201s? Does the Lima have as many wheel power pickups and driving axils as the MM locos?

Thanks

Noel

[BosKonay]

I think the phrase 'chalk and cheese' would be an apt description of the difference.

 

The Lima sports a classic noisy pancake on one bogie with iirc two axles driven. Iirc there are pickups on four wheels?

 

The new model sports A 5 Pole Double Flywheel Motor Driving 4 Axles with All Wheel Pick Up

 

While not as good a puller as the 071 the new 201 is an entirely smoother beast than its Lima relative.

[DiveController]

Noel, didn't you get some good results when you converted older locos to DCC. Maybe older 201s would still be acceptable compared to their newer siblings rather than scrapping them if you already own them. If you're going to purchase, then going with the MMs would probably be far superior

[rebelred]

Sorry if im moving off topic but I have a Lima 201 at home missing it's barge board/ cow catcher, any idea where I can get a replacement one?

[Riversuir226]

Rebelred i may have one in the spares box.

 

Putting it simply there is no comparison, the later mm 201 is way better excellent running, more power than the lima and more controllable.

The lima ones can be gti'd on dcc but the wheels, mechanism and the detail on the loco will always let it down incidently Gerry Byrne of this parish done a very good article on dcc conversion including sound on the lima 201 in model rail a few years back.

My lima 201 never ran well and is destined to be a shed dweller on my layout.

[Noel]

Noel, didn't you get some good results when you converted older locos to DCC. Maybe older 201s would still be acceptable compared to their newer siblings rather than scrapping them if you already own them. If you're going to purchase, then going with the MMs would probably be far superior

 

Thanks DC. I'm only at the beginning of a long road to DCC part of my loco collection. Mixed success so far, but that is mainly because the older locos simply don't have enough reliable wheel pickups and when on 12v DC I used to have guagemaster electronic track cleaners wired through the system which had an amazing effect on some of my 'poor runners' due to limited wheel pickups at low speeds crossing points. Effectively I have decided to retire my old Hornby 0-6-0s fleet (mainly GWR panniers) to static display because two axil wheel pickups (i.e. due flat wheeled middle axil) just don't cut it. Whereas the Bachman 060s of the same vintage are far superior with their all wheel sprung pickups and run over points at low speeds quite well. I have added extra wheel pickups to three Hornby 2-6-4 LMS Fowlers on the rear trailing bogies which has made a huge difference to them. The pair of Lima class 33s in CIE livery don't run great at low speed over points, nor does my 1970s class 37 and class 25. These have old style ringfield motors with pickups on only two wheels on opposite sides of each bogie with traction tyres on one side of the power bogie, so would need significant work to re-wheel and add all wheel pickups to get smooth running.

 

It looks like all the Bachmann steam locos will run well when converted to DCC, but the work especially with the split chassis models will take time. My 20yo Hornby tender drive steam locos should be OK. Enjoying working at a workbench again, but boy my eyes are not the same as when I last did anything like this. I'm going to have to get a pair of 'modelling' glasses (i.e. as well as reading and driving glasses)

 

If buying locos in the future I will limit the choice to all wheel sprung pickups and drive on a minimum of three axils for steam and all wheel both bogies for diesels (i.e. like MMs and newer Bachmanns I've seen).

Edited September 27, 2014 by Noel

[Noel]

Rebelred i may have one in the spares box.

 

Putting it simply there is no comparison, the later mm 201 is way better excellent running, more power than the lima and more controllable.

The lima ones can be gti'd on dcc but the wheels, mechanism and the detail on the loco will always let it down incidently Gerry Byrne of this parish done a very good article on dcc conversion including sound on the lima 201 in model rail a few years back.

My lima 201 never ran well and is destined to be a shed dweller on my layout.

 

Thanks RS. I was thinking of buying one 201 class in one of the later liveries just to have one for posterity. My interest in Irish railway stock stopped with the 'orrible fischer price livery of the MkII super trains. We all have our own favourite period probably due to the era we personally travelled most on Irish trains. For me it is the 1960s and 1970s era especially in black livery pulling black and tan laminates, park royals, and non-breaked loose coupled goods wagons, I tolerate the modernistic cravens, but not interested in day glow orange roofed mkIIs and IIIs. It's funny because in real life the eye line viewing mk2/3 was such the the orange roofs didn't seem so stark, but with models overhead view one is looking down at them and all you see is orange plastic!!! Suppose roof weathering would help, but they are also very long.

[rebelred]

Rebelred i may have one in the spares box.

 

Putting it simply there is no comparison, the later mm 201 is way better excellent running, more power than the lima and more controllable.

The lima ones can be gti'd on dcc but the wheels, mechanism and the detail on the loco will always let it down incidently Gerry Byrne of this parish done a very good article on dcc conversion including sound on the lima 201 in model rail a few years back.

My lima 201 never ran well and is destined to be a shed dweller on my layout.

 

Thanks Tom, that would be great if you do. Agree there is no comparison, I sold all my Limas bar one for Murphy's 201's, when put side by side you'll see why, never mind how they even run!

[Dhu Varren]

I would agree with all the comments so far about Lima 201s, but at the time, we were very glad to get them. They were, of course, the standard of the day, with their pancake motors, big coarse wheels, traction tyres and lack of pickups. I ran a fleet of heavily modified Lima Class 37s and 47s, which were beautiful runners that drew comment about that at many exhibitions. I never did get around to doing the same mods to my five 201s. Before the advent of the latest 201s, I did, however, modify the chassis of one of the Limas and fitted Athearn SD40 bogies with Bachmann wheels, driven by a Hornby Class 50 motor. This loco runs beautifully, although the bogie sideframes are totally incorrect. Rather than scrap/sell off the other Lima 201s, I am currently rebuilding two chassis that I obtained on eBay for £5.00 each, round butchered Hornby class 60 chassis. These chassis have had Athearn SD40 bogies fitted, which are the same wheelbase as the Lima bogies, and the Lima sideframes are fitted to them. Externally, the locos look exactly like Limas, apart from the wheels, which are also Bachmann. When not next to the later MM 201s I find them quite acceptable, and plan to eventually have three of them converted to my Hornby standard, and to sell off two that are not in appropriate livery.

 

Lima underframe with steel bar screwed to each side for extra weight. Athearn bogies.

 

Lima underframe attached to Hornby Class 60 chassis. Athearn SD40 bogies with Lima sideframes. Underframe still has paint applied by previous owner.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Dhu Varren

[Kirley]

I replaced my Lima chassis with a Bachmann Class 66 one. Only minor alterations were required and the smooth running made it well worth the effort. I know the Murphy Lima's are not a patch on his new models but I have kept all my Lima ones if only for sentimental reasons.

 

[Warbonnet]

I would agree with all the comments so far about Lima 201s, but at the time, we were very glad to get them. They were, of course, the standard of the day, with their pancake motors, big coarse wheels, traction tyres and lack of pickups. I ran a fleet of heavily modified Lima Class 37s and 47s, which were beautiful runners that drew comment about that at many exhibitions. I never did get around to doing the same mods to my five 201s. Before the advent of the latest 201s, I did, however, modify the chassis of one of the Limas and fitted Athearn SD40 bogies with Bachmann wheels, driven by a Hornby Class 50 motor. This loco runs beautifully, although the bogie sideframes are totally incorrect. Rather than scrap/sell off the other Lima 201s, I am currently rebuilding two chassis that I obtained on eBay for £5.00 each, round butchered Hornby class 60 chassis. These chassis have had Hornby Class 56 bogies fitted, which are the same wheelbase as the Lima bogies, and the Lima sideframes are fitted to them. Externally, the locos look exactly like Limas, apart from the wheels, which are also Bachmann. When not next to the later MM 201s I find them quite acceptable, and plan to eventually have three of them converted to my Hornby standard, and to sell off two that are not in appropriate livery.

 

Lima underframe with steel bar screwed to each side for extra weight. Athearn bogies.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15291[/ATTACH]

 

Lima underframe attached to Hornby Class 60 chassis. Class 56 bogies with Lima sideframes. Underframe still has paint applied by previous owner.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15292[/ATTACH]

 

Nice job there, interesting conversions! If you swap the Athearn HTC bogies for EMD Flexicoils they would look a little bit closer (though not near 100% right either). I was thinking of using them and other kato parts to rebuild mine but I prefer your hornby 60 and 56 conversion now. Must keep an eye out for similar parts going cheap!

[Dhu Varren]

Cheap is the keyword here. No point in spending a fortune on parts, when you could spend it on a new 201. I reckon my 56/60 conversion cost me about £12, and I still have one Lima motor to dispose of, plus one complete Lima running chassis which I intend to keep just in case I ever decide to convert the loco back. No modifications were carried out to the body, so it is still as original.

While composing this reply, my mind has been wandering, yes I know it has been wandering for years, but I was thinking about the 56/60 conversion, and I have got it seriously wrong. There is no 56 involved in the conversion. The bogies are, in fact, Athearn SD40 with the Lima sideframes fitted and Bachmann wheels. The original Athearn wheels are pretty ropey so I replaced them. Sorry about all that. The class 56 bogies were resold on eBay, the 56 chassis ended up in a Hornby 47 body with 60 bogies fitted with Lima 47 sideframes. Confused, well I know I was.

[Riversuir226]

Bachmann cl 66 chassis all the way, im currently modifying one for my 209. I ve done 4 conversions in the past and im happy with all of them.

First to admit i got a cracking good bargain on the 66& even better when i sold the box with the body . Another option is a modeltorque unit which can be got secondhand.

[Warbonnet]

Cheers Dhu Varren, think this'll be the way to go for me. Must keep the eyes peeled for the parts