How to renumber a black MM 141?

[Noel]

I thought I'd better start a separate thread on this topic rather than clutter the 'Marks Models Sale' thread. Dear Moderators if you would like to detach or remove the answers already posted to the Marks thread and append here that fine by me. I have added them to the bottom of this post.

 

Question: What is the recommended and most successful method of renumbering MM model locos?

 

• Transfers
  
• Paint/spray over stencil
  
• Hand painting
  

 

Cotton bud and a little surgical spirit rubbing gently, be very careful not to rub to hard as it will start to remove the paint also. I've used this on numerous renumbering projects. If your still unsure try it on an old body first to perfect your techniques. TDR

 

These guys do everything number and logo wise.

http://www.studio-scale-models.com/Transfers.shtml

 

Up to date with the latest numbers so as new slate grey 117s roll out for real these guys can have the full EVN numbers ready to go, just drop them a mail.

 

Noel, Studio Scale Models or RailtecTransfers both supply the transfers. Links to their sites are on the bottom of the main IRM page under Manufacture tab.TDR

 

I didn't see any black livery B141, B142, etc transfers on SSM's site.

 

http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1147

 

 

Thanks Guys. I'm just not sure which is the most successful or preferred DIY method: "Hand paint, paint with stencil, or transfers?" especially with early black livery 141s (e.g. B141). I didn't see any transfers on SSMs web site for the black baby GMs with the 'B' prefix. The factory numbering looks like paint rather than transfers.

 

Answers below so far. Thanks Guys.

 

I think 99% of repaints are done with decals. However, the varnish and other mediums you use before, during and after applying the decal will have a huge affect on the end result.

 

This is the bit that confuses me.

 

Decals is the way to go. You need to get a glossy area to apply the decal to. When it's in place for a day you can seal it in with your preferred varnish. Factory finished models are tampo printed. Hand painting or stenciling numbers would be a bit stone age when there are perfectly good decals available. Have a look on youtube and you will see plenty of how to do it on there.

 

Thanks. Will transfers not have a background 'halo' effect over the black body (i.e. shinny semi gloss look)?

 

Noel my understanding is the manufactures normally use a system called Tampo printing using paint to apply the required/desired numbering, logo etc, thats why I believe they are easily removed using surgical spirit. Transfers are easier to apply ,and more accurate than stensil or free hand. Give Des Sullivan "Studio Scale Models" a shout he may be able to produce specifically what you require TDR

 

No to hand painting - impossible. Equally with stencils. If the transfers aren't available off the shelf, simply email railtech and SSM and get a quote. Des has done a ton of custom stuff for me, and I'm sure railtech would do the same. The factory numbering is printed on, not a transfer, as with all factory produced stock.

 

Thanks guys. Ok it looks like transfers is the only practical option for DIY renumbering. Two Questions (see image below)?

 

1. How does one get the transfers to follow non flat surfaces on the loco body shell (e.g. cover a vertical groove which would shorten the width of a letter or number)?
   
2. How does one get the transfer to look the same finish as the matt body shell?
   

 

 

Does one have to paint a gloss varnish layer under the transfer, or gloss the whole body, then put transfer on when dry, and then respray area or whole body matt varnish?

Edited May 17, 2015 by Noel

[aclass007]

This might help........

[Riversuir226]

Put a little white spirits on a ear bud, rub the number gently till the number is removed & wipe of any residue, brush on a small bit of klear or similar varnish this will help with applying the decal later. When dry its time to apply the decal. Put decal into water for a few seconds & apply the decal to the model when ready, use a q tip to take any excess liquid away from the decal and it ll aid adhesion. Check at this stage that the decal is lying flat and theres no air trapped. Apply decal softener to the decal this helps the decal to settle into the detail in the model. Allow it to dry and when it is dry apply klear to the area to seal in your work. Then sit back and enjoy watching your unique loco running around your layout and after that post up a few pics of your work for the rest of us to admire

[irishthump]

I find spirits can be a little harsh on the paint, if you put on too much and don't take it off quickly it will eat into the paint very quickly.

I find T-Cut is better and will also leave a shiny surface for the new decal. Again, only use a tiny amount on a cotton bud and rub very gently. Don't leave it sitting on the model for any amount of time! Once the old number is removed take a clean cotton bud and lightly polish the surface.

[Glenderg]

Bang on for the above advice. As for products - once you've the surface varnished and ready for a decal, you can use Micro Sol and Micro Set to apply, or Vallejo Decal Medium and Decal Set - it's a two stage process that will take about 24 hours for your decals to disappear into the surface of the model and leave no raised carrier film. One helps it adhere to the surface, the other makes it melt into the surface.

 

When complete, you should have no silvering or shinyness under the decal. Once done, give it a blast of Klear/Varnish as Riversuir rightly says and any different surface finish will disappear.

 

Noel, you only need to gloss the area you are applying the decal. When you are finished, you will respray over it. If the finish doesn't match or stands out from the rest of the loco, it's only at that point you'll need to consider re-varnishing the entire piece of stock.

 

...and tip of the week here. If you don't have access to a model shop that has all of the above in stock, pop down to your local shop and get a bottle of clear vinegar. Same stuff as Micro Sol. Couple of cap fulls in water, in your mixing bowl, all you need. Try it on some spare first though.

 

R.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Glenderg

[Noel]

Thanks Guys. Really appreciate the sound advice. I some cases I just need to change the last digit which may make it easier, or not! The 'B' of the side numbering on the black 141s (e.g. B165, B188) straddles a vertical groove recess which would make the letter narrower when such a small transfer is pulled into the groove by the softening agent when it dries, so I guess it might be best for me to leave the factory painted 'B' in place and change the digits after.

[Riversuir226]

Im pretty sure this is allowed for when the decals are designed, personally id replace all the number as i ve tried to just replace just a digit in the past and i ve never been entirely happy with the results.

[burnthebox]

I find spirits can be a little harsh on the paint, if you put on too much and don't take it off quickly it will eat into the paint very quickly.

I find T-Cut is better and will also leave a shiny surface for the new decal. Again, only use a tiny amount on a cotton bud and rub very gently. Don't leave it sitting on the model for any amount of time! Once the old number is removed take a clean cotton bud and lightly polish the surface.

 

After doing this, & you're intending to respray the loco or carriage, would the new paint cover everything perfectely.

[Glenderg]

After doing this, & you're intending to respray the loco or carriage, would the new paint cover everything perfectely.

 

Edit - did you just suggest renumbering a loco and THEN respraying it???

Edited May 18, 2015 by Glenderg

[burnthebox]

Edit - did you just suggest renumbering a loco and THEN respraying it???

 

Sorry guys, I should have put this in the Q & A tread, & no What I meant was after removing the numbers, could you do a respraying, touch up on the area before attaching new numbers, decals,

 

PS Mods move this to the correct tread if you wish

[DiveController]

Bang on for the above advice. As for products - once you've the surface varnished and ready for a decal, you can use Micro Sol and Micro Set to apply, or Vallejo Decal Medium and Decal Set - it's a two stage process that will take about 24 hours for your decals to disappear into the surface of the model and leave no raised carrier film. One helps it adhere to the surface, the other makes it melt into the surface.

 

When complete, you should have no silvering or shinyness under the decal. Once done, give it a blast of Klear/Varnish as Riversuir rightly says and any different surface finish will disappear.

 

Noel, you only need to gloss the area you are applying the decal. When you are finished, you will respray over it. If the finish doesn't match or stands out from the rest of the loco, it's only at that point you'll need to consider re-varnishing the entire piece of stock.

 

...and tip of the week here. If you don't have access to a model shop that has all of the above in stock, pop down to your local shop and get a bottle of clear vinegar. Same stuff as Micro Sol. Couple of cap fulls in water, in your mixing bowl, all you need. Try it on some spare first though.

 

R.

 

Great tips, Richie!

 

One question if I may….. I am thinking of purchasing another loco before the Marks sale ends, and while I initially did not had an appreciation for weathered locos they have grown on me (slow process, kinda like mould).

 

Anyway, do you think it would be possible to renumber a pre-weathered locomotive or is that likely to leave me with a pristine shiny number in several positions on the loco, like some kid had wiped the dirt off……..

Or…..

get an unweathered loco, renumber it (doesn't seem too hard based on the good advices given above) and then weather that (which I have no idea how to do effectively without screwing up a perfectly good model (no access to Richie's tutorials due to distance)). I would need to get someone to do that (at least at this point in time, maybe on a visit to the home country)

Thanks in advance