Nowadays, a goods train will almost never have more than one type of vehicle (I aim this post particularly at younger readers, as older will remember). A train might consist of 18 bogie flats with or without timber, containers, or whatever, or a line of pockets. Naturally, no brake van at the end.
This is the reverse of what it was like before fitted trains.
Pre 1975, when loose coupled was the order of the day, a brake van was essential - thus a train of loose-coupled four wheeled wagons on a layout based in the pre-fitted era cannot consist of a loco and a line of wagons. Having a brake van at the end is the same as having a locomotive at the front; if it's not there, the train ain't moving anywhere.
Now it's different if they are fitted - like the beet four wheelers in their later days, but four wheeled wagons were never fitted en mass in Ireland anyway, back in the day.
So if modelling pre-1975, a brake van is a must. But also variety. Not only did trains not consist of a line of the same type of wagon, many trains rarely had two wagons alike.
Take the UTA.
Ex BCDR stock got mixed up with ex NCC stock, and within this family were some quite modern York Road adaptations of LMS designs (please don't say "mainland"; as well as being technically quite inaccurate and offensive to many, it's narrow gauge!) from Derby. Add to that the passenger-profile "Brown Vans", and the fact that other NCC stock was old enough to be of bncr origin, and you've a mixture. The UTA was anti-rail from the outset and saw no future in any sort of rail traffic, so they built few if any wagons of their own. Now along comes 1958, and ex GNR stock is thrown in as well.
To add to the modeller's nightmare, there wasn't even a uniform livery. Like the GNR, the UTA painted some wagons brown if they were fitted, i.e. they could be added to the back of a passenger train. BCDR stock was largely withdrawn, but a few items survived to get UTA markings, often just painted on the left hand lower end on top of the very dark BCDR grey, with their initials still showing. Some, like NCC stock, were repainted, or partly so. The NCC / UTA grey was the same as British LMS grey since the LMS owned the NCC.
Once the GNR was absorbed, partial repairs, or poor quality paint which barely mask the large "G N" was the norm. Wagons received "N" added to their numbers, as did carriages, though the letter was first, eg N145.
The UTA used "UT" rather than "UTA" on all wagons without exception. It was placed lower left, like the NCC had done latterly, and in the same font.
Now to CIE.
GSWR, DSER and MGWR rolling stock was commonplace right through the fifties. While they we properly painted, this didn't happen too often and many were almost as tatty as those on the UTA. In the early fifties, the odd one still had "G S" but at a guess this was pre-maybe-1951. The. When the palvans and H vans appeared, the old stock was mixed in with them for a while until they gradually disappeared. The last wooden vans of (late) GSWR or GNR that I saw in traffic were maybe about 1971. Even then they were few. The GSR inside-framed horizontally planked goods vans were the last "pre-H" ones in traffic with some surviving to be brown, and not withdrawn until about 1975.
So, a goods train heading to Portadown in 1965 could have (and I saw them often) something like this:
Locomotive
NCC brown van
CIE H
GSR wooden van
CIE palvan
BCDR van
Bullied corrugated
GNR van with flying snail
GNR van with UT in faded paint
Three grey bubbles
Flat wagon with load under tarpaulin
CIE H
GNR open wagon with snail
GNR open wagon with "G N"
Bullied corrugated
NCC origin goods van in UTA markings
Courtaulds (NCC) open
Ex NCC brake van (as per the one at Downpatrick); GNR goods van (no black chassis and ironwork, cream porch or white roof; all these are entirely incorrect!) - either in GNR, UTA or CIE livery; or CIE standard 20 or 30 ton van, grey - with snail or roundel. With roundel, wasp stripes on ducket, with snail wasps stripes less likely.
If this imaginary train was in the south or west instead of rattling through Dundalk, expect cattle wagons too, and one of the few surviving GSWR brake vans - these remained grey and snail-adorned to the end. GNR brake vans were rarely seen outside their own territory, though very occasional sightings were made.
I hope is provides some inspiration. Dunluce Castle, of this community, seem to have a v eclectic collection of scratch built stuff - this is entirely appropriate.
A line of Hornby vans, all uniform, whizzing round behind a 141, will loo impressive on a layout, but in reality - for those interested in accuracy - such things never happened.
Below is a UTA walk. Showing the poor paint.
This was a cut down Courtaulds wagon, which were originally a reddish brown as is still evident. It's now 1975, and this beast is parked up at Antrim with a few classmates. As you can see from the strapping, it was originally a full height wagon. About a dozen were cut down like this by NIR about 1969 as ballast wagons. NIR ever ran goods trains.
Incidentally, on a livery note, you can er how myths about black ironwork arise. Imagine this picture in black and white, the ironwork gets rusty long before the paint fades on the wooden bits, thus a B'n'W photo will make it look darker. Courtaulds wagons had red/brown paint on ironwork, and the watery NIR light grey paint was on ironwork too.
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Question
jhb171achill
Nowadays, a goods train will almost never have more than one type of vehicle (I aim this post particularly at younger readers, as older will remember). A train might consist of 18 bogie flats with or without timber, containers, or whatever, or a line of pockets. Naturally, no brake van at the end.
This is the reverse of what it was like before fitted trains.
Pre 1975, when loose coupled was the order of the day, a brake van was essential - thus a train of loose-coupled four wheeled wagons on a layout based in the pre-fitted era cannot consist of a loco and a line of wagons. Having a brake van at the end is the same as having a locomotive at the front; if it's not there, the train ain't moving anywhere.
Now it's different if they are fitted - like the beet four wheelers in their later days, but four wheeled wagons were never fitted en mass in Ireland anyway, back in the day.
So if modelling pre-1975, a brake van is a must. But also variety. Not only did trains not consist of a line of the same type of wagon, many trains rarely had two wagons alike.
Take the UTA.
Ex BCDR stock got mixed up with ex NCC stock, and within this family were some quite modern York Road adaptations of LMS designs (please don't say "mainland"; as well as being technically quite inaccurate and offensive to many, it's narrow gauge!) from Derby. Add to that the passenger-profile "Brown Vans", and the fact that other NCC stock was old enough to be of bncr origin, and you've a mixture. The UTA was anti-rail from the outset and saw no future in any sort of rail traffic, so they built few if any wagons of their own. Now along comes 1958, and ex GNR stock is thrown in as well.
To add to the modeller's nightmare, there wasn't even a uniform livery. Like the GNR, the UTA painted some wagons brown if they were fitted, i.e. they could be added to the back of a passenger train. BCDR stock was largely withdrawn, but a few items survived to get UTA markings, often just painted on the left hand lower end on top of the very dark BCDR grey, with their initials still showing. Some, like NCC stock, were repainted, or partly so. The NCC / UTA grey was the same as British LMS grey since the LMS owned the NCC.
Once the GNR was absorbed, partial repairs, or poor quality paint which barely mask the large "G N" was the norm. Wagons received "N" added to their numbers, as did carriages, though the letter was first, eg N145.
The UTA used "UT" rather than "UTA" on all wagons without exception. It was placed lower left, like the NCC had done latterly, and in the same font.
Now to CIE.
GSWR, DSER and MGWR rolling stock was commonplace right through the fifties. While they we properly painted, this didn't happen too often and many were almost as tatty as those on the UTA. In the early fifties, the odd one still had "G S" but at a guess this was pre-maybe-1951. The. When the palvans and H vans appeared, the old stock was mixed in with them for a while until they gradually disappeared. The last wooden vans of (late) GSWR or GNR that I saw in traffic were maybe about 1971. Even then they were few. The GSR inside-framed horizontally planked goods vans were the last "pre-H" ones in traffic with some surviving to be brown, and not withdrawn until about 1975.
So, a goods train heading to Portadown in 1965 could have (and I saw them often) something like this:
Locomotive
NCC brown van
CIE H
GSR wooden van
CIE palvan
BCDR van
Bullied corrugated
GNR van with flying snail
GNR van with UT in faded paint
Three grey bubbles
Flat wagon with load under tarpaulin
CIE H
GNR open wagon with snail
GNR open wagon with "G N"
Bullied corrugated
NCC origin goods van in UTA markings
Courtaulds (NCC) open
Ex NCC brake van (as per the one at Downpatrick); GNR goods van (no black chassis and ironwork, cream porch or white roof; all these are entirely incorrect!) - either in GNR, UTA or CIE livery; or CIE standard 20 or 30 ton van, grey - with snail or roundel. With roundel, wasp stripes on ducket, with snail wasps stripes less likely.
If this imaginary train was in the south or west instead of rattling through Dundalk, expect cattle wagons too, and one of the few surviving GSWR brake vans - these remained grey and snail-adorned to the end. GNR brake vans were rarely seen outside their own territory, though very occasional sightings were made.
I hope is provides some inspiration. Dunluce Castle, of this community, seem to have a v eclectic collection of scratch built stuff - this is entirely appropriate.
A line of Hornby vans, all uniform, whizzing round behind a 141, will loo impressive on a layout, but in reality - for those interested in accuracy - such things never happened.
Below is a UTA walk. Showing the poor paint.
This was a cut down Courtaulds wagon, which were originally a reddish brown as is still evident. It's now 1975, and this beast is parked up at Antrim with a few classmates. As you can see from the strapping, it was originally a full height wagon. About a dozen were cut down like this by NIR about 1969 as ballast wagons. NIR ever ran goods trains.
Incidentally, on a livery note, you can er how myths about black ironwork arise. Imagine this picture in black and white, the ironwork gets rusty long before the paint fades on the wooden bits, thus a B'n'W photo will make it look darker. Courtaulds wagons had red/brown paint on ironwork, and the watery NIR light grey paint was on ironwork too.
I hope this is of help.
Edited by jhb171achill28 answers to this question
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