Dromahair

[David Holman]

Bill Ascough, of Ace Models once let me take a kit of a GN C12 at a show, for half the price - happy that I posted him a cheque later.

 ACE make an etched kit of the Southern's N and U, which may be of interest to MGW 7mm scale modellers. Bet that's a fairly limited market though!

 

[Galteemore]

There’s a thought ...three little words put me off though - Outside Valve Gear.....

[David Holman]

Not as difficult as you'd think. Getting a six wheel chassis to run smoothly can be harder, because the valve gear doesn't actually do anything on a model, just wave about and look like it's going to tangle in knots!

 The first one I tried was on the Vulcan kits Sierra Leone Hunslet 2-6-2T. It was all held together with 14BA nuts and bolts, which avoided any soldering. Put an RG4 in for power and it ran beautifully.

[Angus]

I didn't make much progress yesterday, a couple of glasses of wine with tea and then a large gin and tonic didn't bode well for messing around with such fine etches.

I just prepped the wheels adding the Mansell wheel inserts and soldering the bearings into the W irons.

Today was more productive.

I finished off the etch overlays and constructed the box of the van.

That was after a short interlude where I managed to lose one of the overlays on my workbench, as it hadn't been tidied in years I took the opportunity to do just that (and find the offending overlay).

Here is the van sat one it's wheels, although these are not yet attached, with the obligatory 5p piece for scale (sorry I'm out of cents at the moment).

[Angus]

More progress today, solebars are on after a bit of a battle as is the sliding vent panrl.

The W irons are now mounted although I've used a piece of brass rod for the tie bar rather then the etch provided which looks too thick.

I'll use the facing piece for the W irons though.

I've not been as thorough cleaning this side, I'll do better tomorrow.

I'm not sure about the buffers, I think the spindles need to be longer.

 

 

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

Looks good to me Angus. Spindles look about right. Nice bit of soldering.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Galteemore

[Angus]

Thanks Galteemore.

I've just measured off the drawing in Ernie Shepherd's MGWR Illustrated history.

They scale off the drawing at around 1' 10" the ones I've used , whilst the right shape, are 3mm so 1' 6". 

I'm 4" short (just under 1mm).

A quick look shows nothing suitable to buy, so I'll either have to turn my own or live with the compromise.

At this point it'll be the latter.

[Midland Man]

2MM!

I believe it is a JMdesign so if he could do it in 2mm I wonder If he could do it in 7mm do he have a website?

[Galteemore]

Obviously the drawing’s wrong 

Just now, Midland Man said:

2MM!

I believe it is a JMdesign so if he could do it in 2mm I wonder If he could do it in 7mm do he have a website?

MM - there is also a 7mm card kit from Alphagraphix with an underframe kit to match...

[Angus]

6 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

I believe it is a JMdesign so if he could do it in 2mm I wonder If he could do it in 7mm

Hi Midland Man,

John very kindly made some minor alterations to his 4mm art work to enable it to be shot down to 2mm.

The etch is 8 thou brass, being half that of the 4mm version the fold lines stay true so the main elements do not need to be changed.

For this to work in 7mm it would need 30 thou brass, very heavy and difficult to work and solder (and expensive).

There is more information about John's products under "JM Designs" in the Manufacture's section of this web site.

Regards

Angus

[Galteemore]

30 thou brass?! Wouldn’t fancy trying to cut that off the etch! 

[Midland Man]

Grand

if expensive I would not do it

[Angus]

So onward with the brakes.

The etch includes fully detailed parts for the 8 shoe brakes, this is first for me in 2mm, I find them a faff even in 7mm!

Once the shoes were mounted on one end necessitating the remove of a buffer, the locating pin needed trimming as it interfered with the brake shoe locating slot on one side, The brake stretchers and adjusters were assembled.

 

After a couple of attempts I managed to get the whole lot fitted and the wheels spinning.

Tomorrow should see the other side brakes completed, then it's final detailing time.

[David Holman]

Keep forgetting these models are 2mm scale! Little jewels - fine work in more ways than one.

[Angus]

Well, it's the last day of my Easter hols and appropriately I finished the MGWR horsebox I started on the first day of the holiday.

I say finished, actually I still need to attach the roof and build the roof vents (still not sure how I will do this, they are casting on the 4mm kit).

I won't attach the roof until after painting so I can glaze the groom's compartment window.

It is all built as the kit with the addition of step and handrail outside the groom's compartment.

The question now is what livery to paint it?

I've three options MGWR, GSR and CIE.

Whilst my original intention was to model Dromahair in the late 40s since starting the layout I'm increasingly drawn to the MGWR as a prototype. As a result in the long term I might model something joint with the SLNCR, I'm currently considering Sligo station and shed, but may chose something fictional (there's plenty of might-have-been lines in the neck of the woods).

I quite like the idea of mid 30s GSR. From the Casserley photos in Jonathan Beaumont's Rails to Achill book there is plenty of pre-grouping rolling stock still in evidence and I would be able to run chocolate and cream carriages along side the earlier maroon. That would exclude CIE. I just need to decide between GSR and MGWR.

[Midland Man]

Looks great 

Are you going to spray paint or brush paint?

[Angus]

Hi Midland Man,

For etched kits I always use Halford''s primer in aerosol spray cans.

As long as you warm the cans it gives good coverage and adheres well, I've never seen the need for more expensive etched primers.

I tend to brush paint the chassis and anything black.

The body may be sprayed (aerosol spray again) or brush painted, depending on what colours in what format I have in stock;

I do have an airbrush, bought about 10 years ago, but embarrassingly have never used it. It's on my "to learn" list.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Angus

[David Holman]

Rattle cans rule! I too have an airbrush and compressor, but they are things that need practice. The set up and cleaning time is exponentially greater than painting time too, so it's best to store up work to make it worthwhile.

 Minor health warning though - JHBAchill will not be amused to hear of wagon chassis being painted black!

[Noel]

2 hours ago, David Holman said:

Rattle cans rule! I too have an airbrush and compressor, but they are things that need practice. The set up and cleaning time is exponentially greater than painting time too, so it's best to store up work to make it worthwhile.

 Minor health warning though - JHBAchill will not be amused to hear of wagon chassis being painted black! 

It seemed like that at the beginning but as you have a few goes at it, takes less and less time, and before you know it cleaning up becomes quick and easy. I have it down to 120 seconds. You could do it in your sleep once you get used to it and learn more and more shortcuts. The first time I dismantled my airbrush two years ago I feared I would never manage to put it back together again, and if I did, it would never work properly again.

I agree the spray rattle cans like halfords are great for priming (ie once kept warm) and also Humbrol acrylic varnishes (Gloss for decals) and Matt for finishing. But I really do recommend giving an airbrush a try, and get past that first mental block which I refused to pass for a year after 1st getting a brush. Once you get going you'll never look back and learn all kinds of tricks by yourself. First time just spray a bit of white paper or an old piece of rolling stock that is not precious to you. The beauty of acrylics is its forgiving if you make a boo-boo. Make many boo-boos cause that's how your learn the most.      I made heaps of all merciful boo boos.

 

[Angus]

10 hours ago, David Holman said:

Minor health warning though - JHBAchill will not be amused to hear of wagon chassis being painted black!

Hi David,

I fairness I try to avoid painting anything black (unless it's an LNWR engine) for chassis I use a mixture of gunmetal and black mixed to give a faded metallic dark grey.

[Noel]

22 minutes ago, Angus said:

Hi David,

I fairness I try to avoid painting anything black (unless it's an LNWR engine) for chassis I use a mixture of gunmetal and black mixed to give a faded metallic dark grey.

I hope this chassis is not deemed black  

[David Holman]

Works for me! I also like the gunmetal effect, but also add a bit of bauxite too and sometimes metalcoate gunmetal, as per Martyn Welch's seminal 'The Art of Weathering.

[Angus]

Indeed David, that's the book I picked up that technique. It's a volume that should be on every modellers book shelf.

[Galteemore]

54 minutes ago, Noel said:

I hope this chassis is not deemed black  

Looks an indeterminate shade of disgraceful grot - ie just right! 

[jhb171achill]

Looks just right - a liberal coating of gunk, dunduckety mud and brake dust!

For about five seconds after leaving the paint shop, CIE and GSR wagons all carried the body colour on the chassis and roof too. Never black. 

Over time, the whole vehicle just got grubby looking all over, with rust showing on metal bits  - all exactly as you've done above. In black'n'white photos, rust-covered metalwork has in more recent times misled many who never saw them in use, to see the BnW photo as depicting the ironwork in a much darker colour, assumed to be black; but not so.

Roofs got darker due to loco exhausts.

What you have looks good - I might try to disguise the roof a bit more as if it was initially painted the same grey, if I was to be absolutely obsessive! But it looks a great job - excellent weathering as always!

[jhb171achill]

12 hours ago, David Holman said:

Minor health warning though - JHBAchill will not be amused to hear of wagon chassis being painted black!

        Funny, tonight I was perusing photos of various wagons for a forthcoming book and there were two I looked at (1950s) that while historically I know what colour they were, they are so utterly weatherbeaten, tatty and faded, dirty etc... for anyone who wasn't familiar with Irish railways you could tell them the thing had a pink chassis, lime green body, yellow buffers and a tartan patterned roof - and no-one could be any the wiser!

I will be getting out my own stuff in the near future to weather it  - I will practice on two tatty old GWR cattle trucks. If I could achieve half of the weathering skills of some of the folks here, I'd be well pleased. Since "Dugort Harbour" will be set in the mid-50s to mid-60s, and will be intended to represent somewhere on the very top of Todd Andrew's list for the chop, the weathering will almost be more important than the livery!

Edited April 15, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Midland Man]

Is it me or are Irish rail people are no the best  when documenting paint samples.

Thanks @jhb171achill for posting that. A help to all modelers.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Angus said:

Hi David,

I fairness I try to avoid painting anything black (unless it's an LNWR engine) for chassis I use a mixture of gunmetal and black mixed to give a faded metallic dark grey.

Angus, I did a double take - that's N GAUGE!! Absolutely SUPERB job! It's either that or the 5p is 2ft diameter!

[Midland Man]

When I wether I only wether one side well and make a mess of the other but I don't mind  as the layout will be end to end so you will only sea on side

[Angus]

A question if I may Jhb171achill?

Presumably the horsebox would have been maroon as a NPCS vehicle?

If so would the chassis have been grey originally?

Thanks.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Angus

[jhb171achill]

15 minutes ago, Angus said:

A question if I may Jhb171achill?

Presumably the horsebox would have been maroon as a NPCS vehicle?

If so would the chassis have been grey originally?

Thanks.

Horseboxes were a funny species from railway to railway! Usually they were painted in the "passenger" livery, as they spent a lot of time stuck on the end of passenger trains. That would mean maroon in GSR days, then green in CIE days. Since use of them fizzled out in the early 1960s, none ever were orange and black or any derivative of it, a bit like the last few passenger-carrying 6-wheel coaches. As an unrelated aside, this applied to NCC "brown vans" too. Never any lining though.

As such, if in passenger livery, this extended to the chassis as well. So, for the GSR (or GSWR), maroon body, possibly light grey roof, and BLACK chassis, as per passenger stock. Once it's CIE time, plain green paint with very dark grey or black roof, and black chassis. One detail difference: CIE painted the ends of carriages black, not dark green - but horse boxes were green on both ends and sides.

Now, nothing in life is ever simple - and judging from some photos I've seen, some CIE examples may have been plain wagon grey.

I do not know what colours the NCC painted them.

GNR, LLSR and CDRJC ones were plain wagon grey all over. BCDR ones were carriage maroon, possibly white roofs, and black chassis.

The Midland Great Western probably painted theirs brown, as per carriages. It need hardly be added that none ever got the short-lived blue and white!

[jhb171achill]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 9:34 PM, Angus said:

Well, it's the last day of my Easter hols and appropriately I finished the MGWR horsebox I started on the first day of the holiday.

I say finished, actually I still need to attach the roof and build the roof vents (still not sure how I will do this, they are casting on the 4mm kit).

I won't attach the roof until after painting so I can glaze the groom's compartment window.

It is all built as the kit with the addition of step and handrail outside the groom's compartment.

The question now is what livery to paint it?

I've three options MGWR, GSR and CIE.

Whilst my original intention was to model Dromahair in the late 40s since starting the layout I'm increasingly drawn to the MGWR as a prototype. As a result in the long term I might model something joint with the SLNCR, I'm currently considering Sligo station and shed, but may chose something fictional (there's plenty of might-have-been lines in the neck of the woods).

I quite like the idea of mid 30s GSR. From the Casserley photos in Jonathan Beaumont's Rails to Achill book there is plenty of pre-grouping rolling stock still in evidence and I would be able to run chocolate and cream carriages along side the earlier maroon. That would exclude CIE. I just need to decide between GSR and MGWR.

"Rails Through Connemara" is now ready, and but for the coronavirus shutdown would have been on the shelves in June - dear knows when it'll be now, but it shows more pics like that. If you are going for the late 1940s, there are two options for this van.

1.  Reasonably clean looking and fairly recently painted in the new CIE livery of DARK green - not the late 1950s shade. If you look at the Bachmann train set with the "Woolwich" and set of coaches, or the background to my "avatar" thingy to the left, which is actual CIE paint, that is the shade for sides and ends. Roof very dark grey, almost black - or, indeed, dull matt black. Chassis matt black. Markings will have no "eau-de-nil" lines, but just the plain green, with the "flying snail" logo and a number. Being a Midland vehicle, this will end with "M", thus: 2M, 15M, 21M, or whatever.

2.  For a horsebox, probably more likely not to be up-to -date, so still in old GSR livery. It probably won't see a paintbrush for a while yet - thus while technically GSR maroon (exact shade being British "LMS maroon"), it will probably not have been done up for ten years, so the chassis and roof will be an indistinguishable dusty weathered dirt colour, while the sides and ends will be a faded, dulled-down browny-reddish colour, the marking "G"  "S" in small writing barely visible, with the number. The "GS" and number were in shaded gold letters, now faded to a dirty dull yellowy colour.

 

[Angus]

Thanks JHB171Achill. That livery information is useful, I think I'll go for the GSR livery.

it will add a splash of colour and will still be correct if I turn the clock back to the mid 30s.

I'll also keep my eye out for the Connemara book.

C E J Fryer's Waterford &  Limerick book has just landed so more reading underway for traffic feeding Sligo.

Lots of nice D17 pics, one of the nicer GSWR locos as Mayer's recent build ably demonstrates.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Angus

[jhb171achill]

31 minutes ago, Angus said:

Thanks JHB171Achill. That livery information is useful, I think I'll go for the GSR livery.

it will add a splash of colour and will still be correct if I turn the clock back to the mid 30s.

The thing about the Midland in the GSR era, like much at that time, in order to add colour, you're looking at carriages. Every single solitary item of goods stock, and every single solitary locomotive were all dull grey, often liberally "weathered"! The GSR did tend to keep locomotives clean, which made the grey look OK, a bit like the 071s right now - a dirty one just looks awful, but a clean one, well, OK or even good, on a clean sunny day!

So, if you go back to the 1930s, you have three potential carriage liveries as oases in a sea of fifty-five shades of grey (yes, funny people out wesht).

- 6-wheelers, Branch line and secondary stock - some still in the old very dark shade that the GSR inherited from the GSWR and splashed over everything from the Wisht Clare to main line Cork. In model form, you need some mix of a very dark maroon and a very dark chocolate brown, the reddish tint distinct but not much more. Weathered, they looked almost black at times.

- 6-wheelers, Branch line and secondary stock - if repainted in recent times (since 1933) the same bright maroon as used by the LMS in England, and by extension the NCC. Right down to the same lining, though different crest and markings. Some secondary stock had no lining (same on NCC!).

- Main line bogie stock - a very few still in the old dark "crimson lake" colour described above, a few in (English) GWR-style chocolate and cream - a short-lived main line livery current from about 1927/8 to 1934 or so - but most in the LMS livery.

The horse box will either be a totally weathered brake dust colour, the sides looking like this extremely dark brownish red, but really very heavily weathered indeed, or possibly quite tidy LMS maroon. As far as I have ever become aware, no horse boxes were brown and cream - though it isn't beyond possibility that one or two might have got a coat of brown paint.

I hope that is useful.

By the way, once you go into CIE days, it's not until 1947 that any locos on the Midland become anything other than grey - and this means a few, but seemingly not all, of the "Woolwiches" and a couple of 4.4.0s. The rest.....grey, of course!

[Angus]

Hi jhb171achill,

I think 1934-35ish is definitely the "sweet spot" of my interest. So a bit of back dating at Dromahair is required.

I've also being playing around with Sligo in Templot.

The background map is a bit weird as along its length it is to scale but slightly under scale in width, still it gives a good impression from a first attempt.Most of the pointwork is 1 in 7 but I had to go sharper in the engine yard just to make the trackwork fit.

The faint outline is the proposed baseboards at just over 9' x 1'6" the two board being connected at an angle to allow for the curve. It's this curve which give the layout a nice feel.

Note, the loading bay spur in front of the station needs extending bit.

I've curved the line down to the Quays back to allow a freight traffic to reverse into the fiddle yard off scene. The reverse curve will be hidden by the trees present in real life.

 

Anyway, enough dreaming! Prompted by a request for a photo for the 2mm Scale Association's bi-monthly magazine I've finished the horsebox build (still needs paint and decals)

The vents were formed from 0.6mm wire, two lengths being bent to shape and the backs filed to half thickness and the pair soldered together.

It was actually easier than I feared, the harder part was getting the vents mounted in the roof at a similar level and alignment.

Seen here posed on the fledgling Dromahair at the end of the goods bay ready for loading.

I'll have to re-do the station sign as it has warped.

I'm now on with the first of the meat vans. I'll post up progress as soon as I have anything worthwhile.