Freight movements in the Limerick area

[murphaph]

Hi all,

As some of you may know, my long term plan is to model the LJ-Limerick line at waist height, showing hints of the WRC, Nenagh, Foynes and Castlemungret branches and the continuation of the LJ - Waterford line (all off scene but with the correct sort of traffic coming from and going to each branch/line), with the Cork-Dublin (north of LJ) mainline occupying a second level, shelf layout at eye level and using Helixes to pass through LJ on the main level before going off scene on the way to Cork.

I'm trying to ascertain exactly what sort of wagons I need to be collecting over the coming years. The layout will be nominally set in 1995 but "mid 90s" is good enough.

I believe in the 1990s you had at least the following movements in this area:

Foynes-Ballina coal & oil (oil still carried or just coal at this stage?)

Castlemungret-Waterford bulk cement in cement bubbles

Kilmastulla-Castlemungret shale trains in bogie shale wagons

Barytes trains from Silvermines to Foynes

Gypsum from Kingscourt to Castlemungret but via LJ or Nenagh?

Ammonia from Marino Point to Shelton Abbey via LJ

What else?

There was a container yard at Limerick. How was this served? Liner trains? to/from where?

Kegs presumably came as far as Limerick but in a block train or attached to a liner train?

Same for ferts?

What about bagged cement out from the cement works?

Any timber trains?

Thanks for any and all help!

 

 

 

[Mayner]

Irish Rail was much more freight orientated before 2000 modelling Limerick or the Junction would require a hell of a lot of freight rolling stock.

The best option would be to obtain an Irish Rail Working Timetable (WTT) for the era, the WTT included paths for bagged cement and fertiliser specials in addition to the scheduled liner trains.

There were significant changes in rolling operations and rolling stock use after the railway ceased operating mail trains and carrying Sundries Traffic in 1993/1994, there was a greater focus on bulk and trainload traffic post 94 with new traffic flows including logs to the new mills at Clonmel and Waterford, grain traffic for Avonmore Co-Op Portlaoise and molasses traffic (cattle feed) to a number of destinations in the Midlands.

The 62'9" airbraked wagons used to carry Liner & Mail Traffic on the Cork and Galway Lines were converted to carry timber traffic, grain was transported in open containers on 4w & later bogie flats, molasses in redundant oil tank wagons.

Excluding the ore and shale trains

Bell Liner Trains: Operated until the company was liquidated in 1997 with daily Cork-Waterford & Limerick-Waterford Bell Liner Trains  42'9" wagons.

CIE Liner Trains: Two Cork-Dublin Liners, One Dublin-Limerick Liner, Limerick later served by a connection into the 12:00 Dublin Cork Liner, Keg and Container traffic.

Keg liners may also have worked from Dublin to Cork and limerick

Limerick-Waterford Liner Mail one each way daily.

Limerick-Ennis Liner daily trip working from Limerick container and keg traffic

Limerick-Roscrea Liner daily trip working from Limerick (pre-1993/4) container and keg traffic.

Bagged Cement traffic (usually weekly cycle) Castle Munget to Ballina/Westport/Galway/Tralee/Cork/Roscrea/Clonmel

I am not sure if Waterford and New Ross received bagged cement form Limerick or Drogheda

Bulk Cement Castle Munget Athenry, Cork, Waterford (also served from Drogheda)

Fertiliser:

Originating points.

Arklow (NET/IFI) New Ross (Albatros), Foynes, Galway to destination points in midlands south and west.

Deport.

Athenry, Ballina, Castlebar, Claremorris, Clonmel, Cork, Ennis, Faranfore  Mallow, Nenagh, Thurles, Rathluric, Rathmore, Tralee, Waterford, Westport.

The majority of fertiliser depots were capable of handling a train load.

Fertiliser traffic from New Ross or Foynes was likely to have been routed via Limerick and  Athenry to destinations in the west

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Mayner

[murphaph]

Thanks a million John. That is a hell of a lot more than I had bargained for but there's almost no stock from that era that I don't need, it would seem!

When you say 42' 9" flats, are these the same as the IRM 42' flats?

The molasses came in via Foynes, right?

 

[jhb171achill]

Very briefly, timber came through en route from Westport or Ballina to Waterford. 

I have timings somewhere - it was during the night it came in, reversed, and continued via Clonmel.

[flange lubricator]

41 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Very briefly, timber came through en route from Westport or Ballina to Waterford. 

I have timings somewhere - it was during the night it came in, reversed, and continued via Clonmel.

Timber ran from Ennis to Waterford on a near daily basis in the mid 1990’s in addition to timber from Millstreet on the Kerry road . 

[DiveController]

16 hours ago, murphaph said:

Thanks a million John. That is a hell of a lot more than I had bargained for but there's almost no stock from that era that I don't need, it would seem!

When you say 42' 9" flats, are these the same as the IRM 42' flats?

The molasses came in via Foynes, right?

 

Yes, the 42' are technically 42'9", and iirc 62' and 47' might also have a spare 9" available for use

Edited August 31, 2020 by DiveController

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, murphaph said:

Thanks a million John. That is a hell of a lot more than I had bargained for but there's almost no stock from that era that I don't need, it would seem!

When you say 42' 9" flats, are these the same as the IRM 42' flats?

The molasses came in via Foynes, right?

 

The IRM 42' flats are models of the 42'9" wagons, the overall length of the bogie and some CIE flat wagons was longer than the bed or load length in order to carry 8'6" or 9' containers within the loading gauge.

27301-27767  22'6"  14' wb 4w flats 1973. During the 1990s these wagons were used on the Foynes-Ballina Coal and Oil trains, Foynes-Portlaoise Grain Traffic, 27658-27767 were used for Guinness traffic. Post 1996 approx. 40 of these wagons were converted to carry timber traffic including logs from Ennis to Waterford or Clonmel.

30001-98----42'9" bogie flats 1971  BR Ridemaster Bogies  ----91-98 steel floors for Irish Steel traffic from Cork

30099-30218---42'9" bogie skeletal flats 1978     IRM model some were fitted with spark proof brake blocks for use on Dublin-Ballina Ashahi liner & Shelton Abbey-Marino Point Anhydrous Ammonia Trains.

30219-30278---47'6" bogie skeletal flats. introduced for keg traffic 1978 Currently used to carry 45' containers-------------------3D printed model available https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130341-42ft-47ft-container-flat-wagons/&ct=1598912053

30501-30540---62'9" air braked skeletal flat wagons. Initially used on 12:00 North Wall-Cork Liner and Dublin-Galway Night Mail-Liner converted to carry timber post 1994. Possible Hornby Tiphook container wagon https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/tiphook-kfa-container-wagon-93367-with-20-and-40-one-containers-era-11.html

Molasses was imported through Foynes tripped to Limerick as a block train, the molasses tank wagons were attached to the rear of scheduled liner trains to be forwarded to their destination. There is a YouTube video of an UP Sligo liner attaching empty bagged cement and empty Molasses tank wagons at Mullingar during the mid 1990s.

Initially apart from re-gauging to 5'3" there was little visual difference between the Irish and UK versions of the ESSO tank wagons when originally introduced. The Esso Teoranta wagons lost their ESSO shields and logo during the 1970s, CIE fitted reinforcing fillets between the tank and underframe similar to tank wagons built by CIE during the same era. SSM produce a detailing kit for the Irish tank wagons.  http://www.studio-scale-models.com/img/K31.jpg

[murphaph]

Thanks a lot chaps. Great info so far.

How did the molasses and bagged cement go to the likes of Mullingar? Via LJ or Athenry?

Any more info on the steel traffic? Years of operation, loads, routes?

 

[Mayner]

Steel traffic was mainly shipments of reinforcing rod from the Irish Steel Haulbowline plant to Dublin carried on scheduled Liner trains, traffic was not particularly heavy as CIE only had 8 bogie flats suitable suitable for carrying the traffic.

 Molasses for Mullingar and Longford was attached to Limerick-Dublin and Dublin-Sligo Liner trains

The Ennis-Claremorris line was only in intermittent service during the 1990s and the Mullingar-Athlone Line closed to regular traffic.

Apart from a short lived Limerick Claremorris Liner (95-96) Traffic north of Ennis was largely restricted to the Ashai Coal and Oil train, fertiliser and cement specials. The line was closed to regular traffic for approx 2 years (94-95?) and the coal and oil train diverted to run via Roscrea and Portarlington when track from the line was salvaged for use on the Ballina Branch and other lines which were in poor condition.

Despite the new liveries and new traffic flows the Irish railway system was effectively being run into the ground during the early 90s with de-railments, train breakdowns and speed restrictions as a result of minimal infrastructure investment and deferred track maintenance on the majority of main line and secondary routes.

[jhb171achill]

17 minutes ago, Mayner said:

 

Despite the new liveries and new traffic flows the Irish railway system was effectively being run into the ground during the early 90s with de-railments, train breakdowns and speed restrictions as a result of minimal infrastructure investment and deferred track maintenance on the majority of main line and secondary routes.

Yes, and utterly disgraceful it was (and is), too.

[murphaph]

ILDA didn't help much either IMO but perhaps that's straying into politics. It is a crying shame how freight has virtually disappeared from the network.

Can I ask for more detail on the steel trains: How did they transport the steel rod from Haulbowline to wherever it was loaded onto rails? Where did this happen?

Very interesting that the Ennis road was closed in the mid 90s. My planned layout only has a very short stretch of this to be modelled, effectively a few yards after the turnout. It would be better operationally for me to send traffic via Roscrea as I will see more of it on the layout. I might model this closed period in fact. I'll have to seriously consider that option.

So molasses came in from Foynes to Limerick yard as a block train, then got attached to the Limerick-Dublin liner train? How many wagons are we talking in each train?

How much splitting/shunting of freight trains occured at LJ generally?

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by murphaph

[Mayner]

Politically the ILDA dispute occurred at a very convenient time when the future of the railways was under review and CIE was instructed by the Minister of Transport to dispose of surplus land (freight yards?) to fund investment in public transport.

Steel traffic from Haulbowline would have been loaded onto scheduled Liner trains at North Esk, there was never enough traffic to warrant a dedicated steel liner. 

Limerick Ennis was not affected by the temporary closure of the Ennis-Claremorris section a daily Heuston-Ennis & return passenger operated during the 1990s, Ennis-Athenry re-opened with a Limerick-Gort bagged cement special, bulk cement to Athenry was a regular traffic on this section before regular operation ceased around 2002-3.

I seem to have forgotten the trice weekly Kingscourt-Castle Munget Gypsum Train!  In later years the Gypsum was attached to the rear of the Platin-Cork Bulk Cement train detached at the Junction and worked to Limerick on  a local trip working.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Mayner

[murphaph]

That gypsum train in the video was attached to a liner train. Was that also commonplace?

[MOGUL]

The gypsum looks like it's being attached to a LJ to Limerick local trip working..

The YM/Yang Ming containers in the front section were very common in Limerick carrying parts for Dell..

[murphaph]

That's very useful information.

When you say LJ to Limerick local trip working, what do you mean? The bogie flats with containers clearly didn't originate at LJ. Would they have been taken off the rear of a Dublin-Cork liner, to also be included in this local working? 

Would the gypsum train have been a unit train all the way from kingscourt to LJ?

Edited September 2, 2020 by murphaph

[Mayner]

CIE initially attempted to operate "a no-shunt railway" with fixed formation trains when freight services were modernised under Railplan 80, with scheduled Liner Trains for container traffic and fixed formation trains for specific traffic flows, train length was effectively limited to 15 (42') bogie or 204 wheel wagon with the available motive power.

Following it establishment IE adapted a more pragmatic approach with less of a focus on running point to point fixed formation trains and an increased level of shunting.

Train lengths increased to 18 (42') or 35? wheel wagons following the introduction of the 201s and following union agreement to operate the 071s on freight traffic

During the 1970s and 80s the Limerick Cement factory was served by a three times weekly block train direct from Kingscourt, in later years (c2000) the gypsum wagons were usually attached to the rear of a Platin-Cork bulk cement train and detached at the Junction, the wagons would have been worked to and from the factory by a trip working from Limerick.

Its possible that the Limerick gypsum wagons were attached to scheduled liner trains between Drogheda and Limerick if the Platin-Cork was not operating.

The 12:00 North Wall-North Esk Liner conveyed keg and container traffic to Limerick Junction in the late 1990s, the Limerick wagons were usually marshalled immediately behind the locomotive to speed up the shunt.

 

 

[murphaph]

I've taken a closer look at the shunting taking place in that video. It seems the train to Limerick was assembled in the siding immediately to the south of the main down line before being hauled out onto the down line, over to the up line then propelled along the up line, presumably to make use of the direct curve?

Is this a correct summary of what's happening in the video above?

If so, the train being shunted seems to leave the bounds of the control of Limerick Junction North signal cabin and enters an area under CTC. How was this handled from a signalling perspective?