Proposed Donegal congestion railways from the 1880's

[Colin R]

Hi guys, I know it is a wonderful thing to be able to just sit back and look through the pile of model railway magazines and books if you are looking for that one piece of information, but I am now thinking that it could be on line somewhere.

The information I am seeking is the proposed extensions to both the Donegal and Swilly lines to help relive the congestion of the North West part of Ireland, after the potato faming in the 1880’s.

I am sure I have seen a map and a drawing of all the proposals for the area somewhere but can I recall it? No.

Thanks once again for any help given.

 

Colin Rainsbury   

 

[jhb171achill]

Colin

The three principal ones were built - Buncrana - Carndonagh, Letterkenny - Burtonport and Donegal - Killybegs.

A little further south, several were proposed but not built: Ballyshannon - Sligo (several proposals), Ballina - Crossmolina - Belmullet, Owenduff between Mallaranny & Achill - Ballycroy - Belmullet, and probably more.

Right across Ireland there were many, many railways which were proposed but never built, both in the 1830s-1860s initial phase, and the post-Famine late 1880s-90s following the establishment of the Congested Districts Board.

I believe that there were several alternatives to the Letterkenny-Strabane and Letterkenny-Derry routes considered too, before the eventual routes were actually built.

 

[airfixfan]

There is a map from this period showing thrvpropsed lines in the North West on display in the Donegal Railway Heritage Centre.

[Colin R]

45 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

There is a map from this period showing thrvpropsed lines in the North West on display in the Donegal Railway Heritage Centre.

Thanks, sadly I can't get over to see it right now and at this rate I don't have a clue as to when that will be, but thanks for the heads up guys.

I can see another book for you JHB, the proposed railways of Ireland, I would buy a copy if you included typical designs of building by the proposed railway company it would appeal to modellers I am sure.

From the research I have done on the Donegal, I have come to the conclusion that there were four different design periods of the railway line from Donegal to Killysbeg and the Ballyshannon lines have different architecture, the main line as I call it from Strabane to Stranorlar had a more robust design and both the Letterkenny and the Glenties branches also had different but typical Irish narrow gauge designs based on typical department of works designs.

I am thinking it would be possible to come up with a generic station building which could be used for Irish Modellers, A brick version for anyone who wants a GNR(I) style building, a stone version for mostly anywhere else and possibly a rendered version for some of the more important stations around Ireland, this could be done on the same basis as the many way Peco station kit, the big difference for Irish station buildings is the use of arched windows, I know this is a very simplistic view of station buildings but if you have the basics you can modify them to your hearts content.    

 

Colin R

[airfixfan]

Plenty of good information on the design of CDR buildings in the County Donegal Railway Companion in particular. Can get a copy of that rare map from about 1890 if you wish and it is in colour as well.

[Chris_w]

Hope this information is not too late or no longer of interest …

jhb:  one of the best sources of information on NW Donegal, Congestion, Light Railwys and the social conditions is the PhD by the late Frank Sweeney.

https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/id/eprint/5278/

 The link is to the University where he did his research and download links to the 2 parts of the research.  Part 1 is the one you’ll be most interested in.  The maps are not the best, but I’m working on an atlas of NW Ireland.   A couple of sample pages are attached.

Buncrana is not one of these lines.   That was the Sligo, Buncrana & Enniskillen Railway.   They were slow to go beyond Buncrana (money) and the SL&NCR got to Sligo first.  As a result, the SB&ER sort an Act of Parliament to drop the Sligo extension.

I MADE A MISTAKE.  Confusing Buncrana with Bundoran!   My comments were not about Buncrana.   Sorry about the mixup.

The other lines:

- CDRJC (Donegal Railway):  Glenties branch, Killybegs branch were Government funded (re. Light Railways Act 1889, Congested Districts Board / Commission.

- L&LSR:  the Carndonagh ‘railway’ and the LB&ER were Government funded projects. (YES Buncrana to Carndonagh).

Light Railways Act 1889:

Sparked a lot of schemes (see Sweeney).  I’ve not been able to determine how many lines were surveyed.

The 1896 reference is to the map attached to the Barten Report with more schemes.

The Donegal Railway Heritage Museum map contains an error.  It shows the Killybegs branch extended to Teelin Pier.   This section was never part of the Killybegs branch, but was an aspirational proposal.

Design periods:   Strabane - Stranorlar was originally the broad gauge Finn Valley Railway.  Stranorlar - Donegal (Town) was the narrow gauge West Donegal Railway.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:58 by Chris_w

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Chris_w said:

Hope this information is not too late or no longer of interest …

jhb:  one of the best sources of information on NW Donegal, Congestion, Light Railwys and the social conditions is the PhD by the late Frank Sweeney.

https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/id/eprint/5278/

 The link is to the University where he did his research and download links to the 2 parts of the research.  Part 1 is the one you’ll be most interested in.  The maps are not the best, but I’m working on an atlas of NW Ireland.   A couple of sample pages are attached.

Buncrana is not one of these lines.   That was the Sligo, Buncrana & Enniskillen Railway.   They were slow to go beyond Buncrana (money) and the SL&NCR got to Sligo first.  As a result, the SB&ER sort an Act of Parliament to drop the Sligo extension.

The other lines:

- CDRJC (Donegal Railway):  Glenties branch, Killybegs branch were Government funded (re. Light Railways Act 1889, Congested Districts Board / Commission.

- L&LSR:  the Carndonagh ‘railway’ and the LB&ER were Government funded projects.

Light Railways Act 1889:

Sparked a lot of schemes (see Sweeney).  I’ve not been able to determine how many lines were surveyed.

The 1896 reference is to the map attached to the Barten Report with more schemes.

The Donegal Railway Heritage Museum map contains an error.  It shows the Killybegs branch extended to Teelin Pier.   This section was never part of the Killybegs branch, but was an aspirational proposal.

Design periods:   Strabane - Stranorlar was originally the broad gauge Finn Valley Railway.  Stranorlar - Donegal (Town) was the narrow gauge West Donegal Railway.

 

 

Fantastic stuff, and well worth opening this discussion again for.

As can be seen, the mileage of PROPOSED railways ll over Ireland at various times probably equalled the mileage actually built!

While researching Clifden, Achill, Loughrea and one or two other projects that are ongoing, I've come across numerous possible routes to all three. Loughrea was served from Attymon Junction, but at one time there was a proposal to make it a terminus of a line from somewhere around Claremorris or Ballinrobe. Another early proposal had it on a more southerly MGWR main oine, while another again would have seen it as the terminus of a WLWR branch from Gort, or a GSWR line from Portumna!

Both Achill and Clifden had 3ft gauge proposals which came to nothing, as well as 5'3". In the case of the former, Achill was not even supposed to have been the terminus - Mulrany was; and any possible extension to that was to go north to Bangor Erris and Belmullet, not west. In the case of Clifden, one proposal - among the most nonsensical ever seriuously put forward anywhere - would have resulted in a HORSE tramway around Connemara's coastal villages, and the journey from Galway to Clifden would have taken 4-5 hours, even if they had later brought in steam trains.

Then, as now, the hearts of some rule their heads. Same as the chorus we hear today from some insisting that all closed lines should reopen. Some should never have been built in the first place.

While I have no plans at present to write a book on the "might have beens", I may refer to this issue in coming scribblings.

Edited December 29, 2024 by jhb171achill

[airfixfan]

Superb map Chris

[Chris_w]

Thanks very much

So far, there will be about 26 maps in the atlas.  It will be made available via the University College Dublin website.

 I am aware of other proposed railways, but not been able to find maps of routes.   Main source here has been the UK Parliamentary Archives (not free!).  Very helpful though.

Highly recommend Frank Sweeney PhD.   Don’t forget the other sources, such as the revised editions of Dr EM Pattersons histories of the CDRJC and L&LSR.

If you do write a book then please contact me about maps.

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:47 by Chris_w

[Colin R]

Hi all

I agree the map is excellent. One thing is that the Teelin extension from Killiybegs is a bit odd. While there may be unknown commercial interests in reaching Teeling, I do wonder just how much of Killybegs would have to change to allow the railway to carry on from that Station to reach Teelin.

 

As far as modellers are concerned, this opens the floodgates for based on layouts.

 

I have to admit that looking for proposed railways is a bit of a hobby of mine, that said I would still love to see an all-Ireland map, with as many of these proposals as it is possible, lines like the Cavan and Leitrim come to mind as one such railway that also had grand designs, as I understand it, it was going to become part of the now infamous Ulster and Connaught Light Railway, also at another point in time there was discussion about an extension between the Cavan & Leitrim Railway and the Clougher Valley Railway.

 

While we are on this subject, I should not forget the proposal to join the Cork, Blackrock, and Passage with the Cork and Muskerry Tramway. While I am not aware of any of the proposed details, I think this one could be modelled if you applied some modellers' licence to the joined-up bit of this proposal.

 

One suggestion I have read about was to electrify the tramway from Passage in the East to Coachford in the West. this would have allowed the tramway to be street-running in Cork itself. My understanding is that it could have gone on to build other extensions around Cork or even merge with the Cork Electric Tramway itself.

 

Of course, all this is pure conjecture on my part since it is still very hard to find out much about the CB&PR.

 

Regards

 

Colin Rainsbury

[David Holman]

And there was me thinking my Swillybegs fiction was just nonsense. Clear induction of proposals through Ramelton to Downies and beyond.

[Colin R]

18 hours ago, Chris_w said:

Thanks very much

So far, there will be about 26 maps in the atlas.  It will be made available by the University College Dublin website.

 I am aware of other proposed railways, but not been able to find maps of routes.   Main source here has been the UK Parliamentary Archives (not free!).  Very helpful though.

Highly recommend Frank Sweeney PhD.   Do it forget the other sources, such the revised editions of Dr EM Pattersons histories of the CDRJC and L&LSR.

If you do write a book then please contact me about maps.

 

Hi Chris do you happen to have a direct link to the University's Website for these documents?

Thanks

Colin Rainsbury 

[Chris_w]

The links you asked for:

- to my Flickr plans of evolution of CDRJC stations (only the main ones at present;  working on intermediate stations)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spw45/

- to Frank Sweeney PhD

https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/id/eprint/5278/

On 29/12/2024 at 12:47 PM, jhb171achill said:

Fantastic stuff, and well worth opening this discussion again for.

As can be seen, the mileage of PROPOSED railways ll over Ireland at various times probably equalled the mileage actually built!

While researching Clifden, Achill, Loughrea and one or two other projects that are ongoing, I've come across numerous possible routes to all three. Loughrea was served from Attymon Junction, but at one time there was a proposal to make it a terminus of a line from somewhere around Claremorris or Ballinrobe. Another early proposal had it on a more southerly MGWR main oine, while another again would have seen it as the terminus of a WLWR branch from Gort, or a GSWR line from Portumna!

Both Achill and Clifden had 3ft gauge proposals which came to nothing, as well as 5'3". In the case of the former, Achill was not even supposed to have been the terminus - Mulrany was; and any possible extension to that was to go north to Bangor Erris and Belmullet, not west. In the case of Clifden, one proposal - among the most nonsensical ever seriuously put forward anywhere - would have resulted in a HORSE tramway around Connemara's coastal villages, and the journey from Galway to Clifden would have taken 4-5 hours, even if they had later brought in steam trains.

Then, as now, the hearts of some rule their heads. Same as the chorus we hear today from some insisting that all closed lines should reopen. Some should never have been built in the first place.

While I have no plans at present to write a book on the "might have beens", I may refer to this issue in coming scribblings.

I’m sorry I am not familiar with the places you mentioned.   I’m not Irish nor do I live in Ireland.   Sorry.