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I know a man.........

I have a collection of GNRI wagon drawings on my PC, the basic outlines, as is usual. I could post a list, or upload any that are asked for, if that's what anyone would like. Probably about 60-ish of wagons, also locos and coaches.

Many thanks @jhb171achill When I get on to the diagram 103 horseboxes then I will have some colour photos to illustrate the liveries you describe. But as you say it’s often hard to tell for the 1950s or earlier - in monochrome photos all the dark colours look much the same. I do have a couple of clues to present - but not tonight.

Livery details on these things are indeterminate. As a GENERAL rule, plain dark green with snail at first (GSR maroon before 1945). Pale green without snail for any that were repainted after that until 1963. Green ones of all types had black ends, roofs & chassis as they were seen as “coaching” vehicles. However, on the Midland ones with the “dog box” end, it’s possible they had green ends - I just don’t know. Pictures of grey ones that I’ve seen have no CIE logo on them, either in snail or roundel days. Only a number and on SOME but not all, “XP”. As a throwback to “coaching stock” days, at least some grey ones, uniquely, had black chassis, though others may have been grey - but they got so tatty that photos can’t show definitively whether all were black, or some grey…

Hi All, Looking for a set of these if anyone's selling ~Lucas

GSWR Horseboxes: Diagrams 100 and 101 Diagram 100 comprised 24 horseboxes built in 1897, and numbered 195-198 and 260-279. These were short vehicles and did not have a storage compartment. The diagram shows some distinctive features including coach-style panelling on the groom’s compartment, and a clerestory-type ventilator on the roof over the horse compartment. Another unusual feature is that the upper part of the side is shown as hinging upwards – on most horseboxes this part of the side was formed of cupboard doors. Two were withdrawn in 1941 but the others survived into the 1950s. As might be expected, the fleet was withdrawn in the mass cull of horseboxes in 1958-1962. Diagram 101 comprised at least 47 horseboxes built between 1895 and 1911. Numbers were in three ranges but there were some gaps within the first range: 146-185, 283-292, 1056-1067. They were very similar in size and appearance to the Diagram 100 vehicles, and also had upward-opening upper side doors. However, they were plainer in appearance with no carriage-style panelling. One was withdrawn in 1941 but the others survived into the 1950s. As might be expected, the fleet was withdrawn in the mass cull of horseboxes in 1958-1962, the last two surviving into 1964. Horseboxes from both of these diagrams were modified over the years, with many losing their clerestory vents. The Diagram 100 vehicles seem to have lost their distinctive panelling too, and the upper side doors were modified to a plainer design similar to Diagram 101. As a consequence, these two diagrams ended up looking extremely similar – hence why I am dealing with them together. In the book 'Great Southern Railways' (Murray) p86 there is a photo which very nicely illustrates no.168 (Diagram 101) in GSR days. Note the recessed areas above and below the groom's window, and the tall thin recessed strip at the near end. These are distinctive features of Diagram 101. This IRRS photo from the 1940s appeared in the MGWR post, but beyond the MGWR horesbox there is a GSWR Diagram 101 vehicle: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507996077 We also saw this 1953 photo from Ernie in the MGWR post, on the right we can see most of a GSWR Diagram 101 vehicle complete with its clerestory vent: This 1957 photo from John Phillips shows a rake of seven horseboxes. Zooming in, the nearest three look a lot like diagram 101, but they do not have the recesses above and below the groom's window, or the tall thin recessed panel at the opposite end. My best guess is that these are rebuilds of GSWR diagram 100. One of which retains its clerestory vent. Beyond them is an MGWR vehicle followed by three GSWR diagram 101 (with recesses): A few more examples from Ernie to come. This 1953 photo shows a Diagram 101: This 1955 photo shows a flush-sided vehicle which I assume to be a rebuilt diagram 100 that retains its clerestory vent: The second horsebox in this rake photographed in 1956 also seems to be a rebuilt diagram 100: However, this photo also at Limerick in 1956 shows a diagram 101: And finally for now, this IRRS photo shows another diagram 101, late in life in 1959 and surrounded by modern rolling stock: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253429780

A short addendum to the previous post - here is GSWR carriage diagram 102 which illustrates the ex-WLWR horse boxes described above:

Mighty stuff!!

Thanks Mol, much appreciated coming from a modeller as accomplished as yourself.

Excellent work! That really looks the part for a tatty, well-used and weathered van. Spot on. Although kits take a lot of time, there's a great deal of satisfaction in producing something that good.

The illusive hinge

Brake van finally finished. It's been great fun building and painting but I now have a new found appreciation for all the time and effort a RTR model saves me. They don't seem quite so expensive now! I needed to wedge a wire into the battery holster to keep the batteries from slipping out, works well now. 20260115_194637.mp4

Very nice indeed. Those nettles seem to be the same species that grow on my own O gauge layout on the banks of the ship canal. I haven't yet tried downsizing these to 4mm scale.

It’s an exciting time for Irish modellers, as we have THREE brand-new models arriving over the coming months! The CIE Palvans, the last of the wagons in our Bulleid Chassis project, are now complete and have left the factory—narrowly ahead of the Park Royal coaches and NIR Hunslet locomotives, which are also in the final stages of production. We’ll have updates on the Park Royals and Hunslets soon, but today we’re concentrating on the Palvans, which have now been signed off from these production samples. Following feedback from modellers on the IRM forum, we were able to make adjustments to the wagon ends to make them more prototypically accurate. This is a great testament to our factory, who were able to implement the tooling changes so quickly, and to our followers, who were able to spot the issue. These wagons are now on the high seas and are due in stock in early March! Pre-order yours today via the link below, with excellent bundle deals available when you buy multiple packs! Pre-Order Your IRM CIE Palvans Here! View the full article

Nettles When time permits, I'm quite enjoying dabbling with this new layout. Not exactly following the conventional route of doing things like all the ballasting and basic ground cover first, but instead working a small scene at the time up to reasonable completion. So here is a small corner of scenery next to the ground frame cabin. It is all fairly conventional stuff, in particular as outlined by gordon Gravett in his book on scenery. The ground cover is the usual polyfilla, covered with PVA and chinchilla dust, after which various passes with the static grass machine & manual puffer bottle add fibres. Various colours of fine crumb add further foliage and flowers, along with Woodlands Scenic fibre matting teased out for dog roses and larger shrubs. The final detail is to add nettles. This is a somewhat laborious process where strands of hogs hair brush material are dipped in PVA and then in fine, dark green crumb. Once dry, each strand is then 'planted' in the thicker foliage. Only about 10cm square in area, but it makes a nice little scene, I think. You'll see a board crossing has been added for the signalman to get to the cabin from his house, while the longer boarding is a simple cheat, to cover the facing point lock mechanism.

DSER Horseboxes The DSER contributed 21 horseboxes to the GSR in 1924, but only 5 were still in traffic in the early 1950s and they had all gone by 1961. Those five were: 14D, built by Ashbury in 1879 and later transferred to the W&T section where it lasted until 1955. 1D, 7D, 8D, 9D, built by the DSER in 1909-1913 and withdrawn in 1958-1961. Fortunately, both types are well illustrated in the book ‘Irish Broad Gauge Carriages’ (Coakham); there are images of 8D and 14D on p28. The two types were different in style and appearance. Otherwise the few DSER-built vehicles seem to have been camera-shy. However, 14D on the W&T makes cameo appearances in a few photos such as these from Ernie: WLWR Horseboxes (later GSWR Diagram 102) The WLWR built 8 horseboxes in 1897-1898, which were soon inherited by the GSWR and became their diagram 102. Five of these survived into CIE days, as follows: 1025, withdrawn 1964 1026, withdrawn 1961 1037, withdrawn 1959 1038, withdrawn 1960 1040, withdrawn 1961 This photo from Ernie shows an excellent (though cropped) view of 1025 in the 1950s. This evaded the major cull and was not withdrawn until 1964: We saw this 1953 photo before in the MGWR post, but the other horsebox partly hidden by the loco is a former WLWR vehicle: Finally, this IRRS photo from the 1940s has a horsebox hiding behind the water column. I think it is another of the WLWR boxes: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508874946/

As this layout is based on Whitehead and its environs but is not a truly accurate replica - hence “Whiterock” - I am not unduly troubled by the use of rolling stock and units with historically inaccurate numbering. Cheers Darius

Did Peckett have multiple works greens? Again this is an assumption that the Peckett was never repainted by allmans, which Infairness is likely. considering the Peckett worked in GSR and CIE service, I think it easily would be a fine addition to the likes of the Jinty and the K class done throughout the years, even if the livery would stand out on a GSR/CIE layout

I will guess... 2070? 0800-1050-1400-1650 6x3000 today

A similar design to that of the MGWR, imagine it was for the horse 'n' hounds set. Horse boxes here were quite possibly the very last vehicles to use oil lighting, long obsolete in passenger stock, for internal lighting.

I think so, it may have been a swop for some Murphy Diesels, unfortunately the exact details are in that period from my age of 10 until my birthday last month when I can't remember much, they may have originally gone to Des Sullivan? My Minder says its too far! (300 miles) and she won't take me but I have registered for the talk.

I'll try to illustrate each of the types of horsebox. In this post, I'll start with the MGWR. MGWR Horseboxes The MGWR contributed 59 horseboxes to the GSR in 1924, of which an estimated 39 were still in traffic in the early 1950s. However, they were withdrawn in the 1958-1962 horsebox cull. Photographs indicate that at least two types of MGWR horsebox were still running in the 1950s, but I do not have any documentary data giving individual numbers or quantities of each type. The most distinctive MGWR horseboxes had a rather short body, with a low-height compartment at one end which could be used for dogs. This photo from Ernie illustrates the type well – this is number 19M in 1953: JM Design has produced a very nice etched kit for this type of horsebox: Other good photos of this type of horsebox are available in the IRRS Flickr archive if you are a member. Here is 55M in the late 1940s – unusually with two small flying snail logos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507996077 Two photos of 52M in 1957, near the end of its life: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253256089/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252116072/ There is also a good photo of 60M, dated 1953, in the book ‘Irish Broad Gauge Carriages’ (Coakham) p23 The other type of MGWR horsebox had a more conventional shape and I assume it was a newer design. This IRRS photo of 36M in 1960 illustrates the type well. The door to the storage compartment has a droplight window, which is a distinctive feature of this type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252116092 Another can be seen behind the loco in this 1955 photo from Ernie, which also shows that these vehicles were quite tall: And there is one on the right-hand margin of this 1953 image: This 1955 photo has a tantalising glimpse of a horsebox with the same styling as the MGWR boxes shown above, but it does not look so tall and it has a plain door to the storage compartment. This may have been a third type of MGWR horsebox: Perhaps someone more specialised in Midland matters can give more details of these?

Thanks, and the top of the main baseboard opens up for access to the sub terrain fiddle yard, the fence and hedge on the track side of the road are hiding a hinge which runs the full length.

Very nice work. You've made a great job of blending the landscaping into the back scene. It's difficult to spot the join. Alan

I have one of those awaiting construction too.