Angus

I never made the link but I am reliable informed the Patrick O'Sullivan in question is the very same that authored to two books on Farranfore to Valencia line published by Oakwood Press. He also arranged for the shot down J15 etches in 2mm scale I have, so I've a lot to thank him for! It turns out he is still a member of the 2mm scale association so if the niceties of data protection allow I am hoping to make contact.

I think Templot gets a bit of a bad reputation because it not the shiny user-interfaced type of software we are all used to and doesn't compare well to snap-together type track planning tools such as AnyRail. But then it is design for a totally different job and it has developed considerable since its launch. It does take time to learn but there are lots on line tutorials and its own support forum, I would be lost without it, particular for odd scale/gauge combinations but I also use for standard UK 2mm finescale also. I'd encourage perseverance! Just printing off templates misses the power of the tool in the fact that point and crossings can be curved and adapted to give a much more flowing (and realistic) appearance. There are a series of tutorials on the 2mm scale association YouTube channel which may help? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRIhMhLNf_X1NTquYGCmt9A

yes..........moving on...... probably about time I did some modelling as opposed to planning. I've already noted that the Ratio carriage shed looked a good approximation for an Irish structure so I bought the kit and settled in for some anticipated "shake the box" kit building fun. As ever though it isn't that simple. If I had looked closer I would have realised only the the roof of the kit is corrugated sheet, the ends and the sides are timber planking. Now, no self respecting Irish company would squander precious money on such frivolities when crinkly tin will do the job more cheaply and just a well. No matter, a few minutes had some new ends cut out some spare plastic corrugated sheet I had. I took the opportunity to square off the ends as seen on the real sheds at Cariciveen and Achill. The kit as supplied is two separate structures to be glued together to make one long one. This looks slightly odd though as you have two ends and associated legs in the middle of the structure, so I also adapted that by removing a small section with the legs from one end. I then overlaid the sides with more corrugated sheet. I was concerned about the thickness if I simply glued the corrugated sheet on top of the kit's timber side so spent 40 minutes diligently sanding down both the timber side and the corrugated sheet on one side before deciding it made little to no difference to the overall look so just glued the second side directly on. I used the surplus timber end pieces, suitable trimmed, as intermediate roof supports to give the structure more rigidity. Its coming along nicely. Posed above with a MGWR brake third that is awaiting the return of some patience (is that ever worth the wait?) to attack the z style MGWR grab rails. Having carefully bent up three handrails from 0.2mm wire only to see them ping off into the nevertobeseenagain distance as I tried to fit them I've given up for a while.....

Hi Mark, I've been looking into turntable myself as part of my plan detailed in my topic: I've found some details of the MGWR's turntables in the November 2001 Irish lines which may assist: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5fc04qa6q56fx0/New Irish Lines - Vol. 2 No. 6 - 2001 November.pdf

As a final check on the design I've been giving some thought to train length. When I drew up the plan I was working on an 18" 450mm length, but in all honesty hadn't tested this. I know 12" was too short and 24" would more than comfortable so simply pumped for mid-way. It should be noted that I find as you decrease in scale size compression of train length becomes less visually acceptable. In 7mm a tender engine four goods wagons and brake van looks an acceptable train, however, it just looks odd in 2mm (Unless of course the real train length you are modelling was this long). Now in 2mm, the following approximate lengths apply: 101 Class (J15) ~ 100mm Covered van ~ 35mm brake van ~ 45mm 6w carriage ~ 70mm Bogie Coach ~ 130mm So a 450mm train length will allow: Loco+8x wagons + brake Loco + 5x 6w carriages Loco + 2x 6w + 3x wagons + brake Loco + 2x bogies carriages + 6w carriage These feel just a little short for a maximum train length. Adding 50mm to extend train lengths to 500mm ( 20") gives a bit more breathing space. This allows two more wagons in the goods (now 10x wagons + brake) and mixed trains (now 2x 6w + 5 wagons + brake)and allows three bogie carriages or an additional 6w carriage to be added to the bogie rake which would be more representative of excursion traffic. Fortunately this still fits on the plans prepared without squashing the run around clearance to the minimum (which always looks a bit odd in small scales).

Hi David, that is very much my current thinking, there are a few examples of very short tunnels on the Valencia line, always accepting the Sligo is not Kerry! combined with some hillside and the odd tree clump it should work. That's what I was meaning by "splitting it into to separately viewable section with a hard divide". It would restrict the expansiveness of the view though. Whilst this enable easier "Cameo" style framing and enable the layout to be built in two halves, I am concerned about losing the sense of journey I am trying to create. Ultimately the split between sections would be conveniently situated on the board joint so could be retrospectively installed if the view breaker tunnel and headland didn't work.

Thanks David, High praise indeed!w if I can deliver a final layout anywhere approaching the standard of Castle Rackrent I'll be a happy man! I am pondering the split between the two layout halves, practicality would suggest splitting it into to separately viewable section with a hard divide. This would preserve the integrity of each scene. However, if I conjure up a view breaker with a hill side and short tunnel it should assist the feeling of spaciousness you mention. I'd like to avoid an road overbridge, it doesn't strike me that there would be many of those around. Any existent road or track wouldn't be busy enough to justify the expense of a bridge. Also on the S curve between the two stations I'm hopeful of being able to conjure up a scene harking to the picture on the front of JHB's Rails to Achill book. This would need the extended view into the Larass section. Then again I might be pushing the expectation of my creative skills a bit too much!

Still doodling on with the track plan. Overnight a couple of things struck me. Firstly the access to the goods yard is a bit odd for a terminus arrangement. The loco would need to pull into the platform road, run around, then draw back passed the crossover and shunt into the goods yard, presumably it would have to clear one of the roads first. It could then shunt as required without fouling the station by using the headshunt but all trains would need to be made up in the yard. This would necessitate a lot of additional shunting and restrict the yard capacity. If the crossover were reversed, once run around at the platform, the loco could simply haul the train into the headshunt then shunt at will isolated from the mainline. Once the shunting is completed and the outgoing train assembled the loco can propel the train back into the platform road ready for departure. I my head at least this sounds more rational. This also removes another concern. I added a second station because I rather like multiple location layouts where you follow a train (very much the American approach as demonstrated by Mayner in the currently active "Irish model Railway Track Plans" thread https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/uploads/monthly_2022_03/1835103048_NorthKerryNScale2022Version.thumb.jpg.a5ddd83c78636aa8c181ab49836d3550.jpg). Apart form adding the interest of another station it also creates a feel of "journey", however, to be successful it does need adequate space between stations. In previous endeavours I've worked on the principle of three train lengths between station to give adequate open running. Obviously this wasn't going to work in the space constrains here so I've relaxed this rule down to two train lengths. I'm planning a view breaker at the end of the head shunt so the Larass station scene is separated visually from the smaller station and open running section. With the original crossover, the train would have to break through this visual barrier to draw forward far enough to access the goods yard. This would destroy any illusion created. With the crossover reversed the illusion can be maintained. The only down side to this revision is that I've had to trim 30mm from my imposed minimum radius of 500mm on the headshunt to fit on the boards. There are no reverse curves in this section so hopefully this won't be an issue. I also took the opportunity to extend the approach curve through the station at Larass, I always think gentle curves look more realistic on a model that straight lines, even if the real thing is usually straight. It also give more room for the shed scene and allows slightly longer sidings in the goods yard. I've reworked the small station compressing it slightly. This helps maintain the open space between the stations and hopefully reinforces the minor nature of this station (Culleenamore). I've altered the layout slightly to add to the shunting interest. There is an annual horse race (according to Wikipedia) held on the sands at Culleenamore, so I am presuming a small horse bay is provided. The short spur being inspired by the layout at Killala, seen here at around 1.00 minutes in. So all that remained was to alter the signal diagram as appropriate (note distance signals have been excluded hence the missing numbers.). In my head the SLNCR contribution to the line is to provide the intermediate stations which give me an excuse to vary the architecture (and recycle the buildings I've started for my Dromahair module) whereas Larass will be pure MGWR. Well enough procrastinating, I really should get on with some modelling..... I think the plan is complete now, barring minor tweaking. I need to print off the Larass station end and ensure it all works with the turntable and intended structures.

Thanks Northroader, That's useful information. I was wondering about the level and figured is must be something to do with the release.

Always good to answer your own question! I was just noodling through some bookmarked websites and came across this: https://athboy100.com/2016/05/17/the-athboy-railway-station/ Mid-way down there is a great photo of the turntable release at Athboy (if you open image in a new tab it opens up bigger), including what looks to me to be a ground signal, no sign of any trap though.

Very nice KMCE! The curve on those tanks are particularly satisfying, it would have been very easy to get one of them slightly out, and very obvious if it was!

Woke on Tuesday feeling grotty and tested positive for Covid, so I've spent the past few days in days bed. Feeling better now but using the time off (I'm too knackered to do anything!) to do some more planning for Larass. First up is the signalling. It is a fairly simple diagram, my only uncertainty is whether there should be anything protecting the platform road from the turntable release? There was no signal/trap protection in the Ballinrobe layout which had a turntable after the platform release albeit the turntable did not form the release, it does feel like there should be something though. I'm assuming the distant has been converted into a fixed signal (not modelled) so has released a lever to spare. All facing point locks on both crossovers are presumed to be economical so moved of the same lever as the points, again this seems to be the case at both Ballinrobe and Loughrea. This means I need seven levers so the small 11 lever box at Loughrea is ideal, the Ballinrobe box was bigger with 14 levers but that just meant more spares. As I've drawings for the Loughrea box the dimensions will be based of that, I am however going to turn the roof around so the ridge runs perpendicular to the track as at Ballinrobe. It just looks better to my eyes and doesn't look as toy-townish.

Hi Northroader and Mayner A while back I waded through all the back issues available in the Irish Lines archive https://newirishlines.org/archive/ Whilst doing so I made a note of the relevant drawings that maybe of some use. My computer crashed near the end when I was getting into the early editions and I had forgotten to revisit them. Whilst searching for the turntable article I realised I had missed a series of drawings of the buildings at Loughrea that includes the engine shed and the small signal cabin, both will get a place at Larass. The engine shed is that standard stone with brick reveals just like the Athboy photos. Coincidentally, it appears I'm not the first to go down the Cahirciveen route in 10.5mm 2mm finescale. There is an article in the March 1996 Irish Lines magazine: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2o1goyh98mmv2nd/Irish Lines - Issue 13 - 1996 March.pdf Does anyone know if Mr O'Sullivan ever built his model?

Ah! very true Northroader and it complete slipped my mind the timescales we were talking about. You make a very good point!

Thanks JHB re-reading my text I realise I may have come across a bit critical, which was not my intent. Since the last post I've done some nosing around t'interweb. Most searches brought me back to this site, which makes you realise what a fantastic resource it is. it seems the MGWR's later lines used the Railway Signalling Company's equipment. However this company didn't come into being until 1885. Prior to that it seems to be McKenzie and Holland signalling equipment that was favoured. Helpfully this fits my time line and an etch of McKenzie and Holland signal arms is available in 2mms scale from Wizard Models.

Hi Mayner, I think the justification for the two road shed will be to handle the expected excursion traffic without the need to travel up to to Sligo and back. I am going to try and keep to the MGWR house style as far as it exists with the excuse the SLNCR funded the intermediate station. As a wider appeal, I'm struggling to find much information on MGWR signalling. Ernie Shepherd's history is quiet on the subject and I can't find any reference in JHB's Achill or Clifden line histories. The Baronial Lines of the MGWR book for covering the Loughrea and Ballinrobe branches refers to the signalling equipment being supplied by the Railway Signalling Company, was this the MGWR standard does anyone know? The turntable etch looks fun! obviously the parts provided are just for the deck support but should be sufficient to allow a suitably detailed model. There a couple of successful builds. I've found some details of the MGWR's turntables in the November 2001 Irish lines: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5fc04qa6q56fx0/New Irish Lines - Vol. 2 No. 6 - 2001 November.pdf It appears form the article that 50' turntables where relatively common.

Yep, fiddling the books, do a load of "maintenence" and it increases the operational costs. The branch then can shown to be making heavy losses. The other tactic was to change the times of trains so they didn't suit commuters and didn't meet onward connection thus reducing receipts.

Hi Colin, I can't remember who said it, but it is a truism that on a good model you should be able to tell the period and the operating company without any rolling stock present. It is easy to get this wrong, for example in my enthusiasm above I've noted the view of the Cahirciveen shed area stating I was just going to swap the corrugated shed for a stone MGWR one. The problem is that the majority of MGWR termini that had engine facilities had two road sheds. The exception being Ballaghaderreen and Kingscourt. The later looks to house two engines in a long single road shed rather use two roads; so if I want to create an MGWR atmosphere I should use a two road shed. As there is also a lovely drawing of the attractive corrugated station building at Cahirciveen in the Valcencia Harbour book. It is tempting to use that, however the MGWR seems to have been quite generous in bestowing stone station structures onto its branch lines. So an alternative will be needed. This has led me to ponder the buildings. For the small station I am thinking of using SLNCR structures for the station building and goods shed, partly because I've got a part built good shed for Dromahair and there is card kit that can be photo copied down for Florencecourt. For the larger I need to source some MGWR structures. I notice the is an MGWR architectural drawing set available from the IRRS. Does anyone know the contents? It is quite steep at £70 for the set (although does contain 80 drawings). I've sourced some etches for the turntable deck based on a 50' Cowans Sheldon unit as installed at Carstairs in Scotland. It is bit bigger than I wanted but scale turntables are hard to come by in 2mm scale, and far better than the commercial alternative (the smallest I can find at 150mm would be a 75' unit!). I'll need to build this first as without a reliable turntable the whole plan doesn't work. The engine release on the run round loop needs the turntable operational, so definitely not a nice to have!

Your a better man than me Andy, I need software to do it for me!

Hi Andy, I think most track plans suffer from that. It is easy to get a bit optimistic about what can fit with a pen and paper. Cyril Freezer's plans being a case in point! I always flesh my plans out first in planning software such as Anyrail. This allows a lot of quick adjustment. Once I've proven the concept and got the layout roughed out I move over to Templot. Once in Templot it is surprising what can achieved using bespoke geometry to ease curves and create a more sinuous line.

Presumably you are running the daily minimum service stipulated in the enabling act David?

I sometimes think that if you drew a line between any two Irish towns you could find a railway proposal that matched! I know they many were promoted for the greater good of what we would now consider economic stimulus to alleviate extreme poverty but most appeared to based on blind hope alone! Still rich pickings for us models and a fascinating history to investigate.

Hi David, I did consider that route but didn't like the reversal leaving Sligo to get back down the line the quayside, there isn't enough space to get a curve directly from the station onto the branch. I do appreciate exactly that reversing move was used by trains traveling to Clifton on departing Galway station, but always thought that would be something to be avoided! Indeed Stephen! That's tempting and the line has been done in 3mm scale (I think) but I really needed a terminus as the short leg of the L on the plan above ends at a chimney breast. There's no chance of a fiddle yard beyond.

Hi Northroader, Each to their own, what ever works for you. I've always preferred layouts with a backstory as it seems to generate a more credible scene. I do accept that this can be at the expense of the overall scene and effect. There are many dull but worthy layouts alongside wonderful fights of fancy. I also like the research that the grounding in reality brings, I just have to stay alert to letting it become too constraining and then spoiling the overall effect. I couldn't agree more, a cycle holiday to visit the Greenways is on the to do list. Whether this becomes a reality is another question!

Thanks Northroader, once the key visual cues of the RIC Barracks and approach viaduct are removed I am hopeful of a degree of anonymity. So that just leaves where to locate the plan..... It was the SLNCR that drew me into an interest in Irish railways so that line needs to be present along with my other main Irish interest the MGWR. This means the sweet spot stays around Sligo, especially as I can add in the WL&WR with a smattering the the GSWR post take over. Looking around the area on Google Earth I notice a couple of beaches near Sligo on Ballysadare Bay around what is now call Strandhill. A bit of nosing around Wikipedia (so what follows may be of questionable accuracy) it appears the Standhill area was developed in the 1890 to exploit the beachside location. No doubt the presence of Knocknarea hill crowned with Queen Medb's grave added to the attractions. So what would have happened if in a search for a locality to build one of their hotels to generate more traffic the MGWR got there first, in say the mid 1850s? Is it too implausible that the SLNCR, then desperate to increase receipts, also scraped a few coppers from the bottom of the piggy bank to contribute (no doubt another loan from their benefactor and main investor Mr Morrison, gallantly trying to get a return on his money). The period maps show no real villages of any note (but then when has that stopped Irish Railway promotors?) so I've chosen a 6 mile route that skirts around Knocknarea with a couple of intermediate stations and a junction onto the Sligo station approach mainline at Magheraboy. The name Strandhill doesn't really work for me, fortunately there appears to be an earlier name of Larass (An Leathros) which suites better. The first intermediate station heading from the terminus back to Sligo will be named after the local beach at Culleenamore. This station will also help generate traffic as a regular horse race was held on the beach from the 1850s (Wikipedia again so could be complete nonsense....). The area is also noted for its oyster beds which will give another traffic flow. Once the quay side is built there will be some trade in fish to. Dublin excursion traffic can reach directly with a reversal at Sligo, ordinary services would connect to the local branch train. The SLNCR can provide a through service to Enniskillen reversing at Sligo with the possibility of through GNR coaches from Derry and Belfast. I'm not planning to use any of the local geography or buildings apart from maybe Knocknarea on the backscene, the sea and quayside at Larass/Strandhill will be on the wrong side for a start! The above narrative is meant as a backstory to generate traffic and root into the train services of the area. The company ownership will define the infrastructure I just need to select and find appropriate buildings and plans. I may leave the carriage shed as is though as I can see a lightly doctored Peco kit for that. I can already visualise the engine shed area with an MGWR stone built shed and fortress water tower and coal stage.