Angus

With the arrival today of the springs and axleboxes (a new product form the 2mm scale association using 3d printing) I thought I had finished the meat van. Seen here with the horsebox and the now obligatory 5p piece. Something had bothered me ever since starting the meat van and I now know what it is. The planking is not etched on the side panels and doors. As I see it I now have four options:- Ignore the error (not something I could live with) Pen in the planks after painting (not sure I could make a good job of that and make it look effective) Scribe the planks in the brass on the van (that might have worked with the etch in the flat before I started, but now it's built I think I would be more likely to bend the etched sides) Adding the planks on 5 thou plasticard is the favourite. I've also got a couple of GS&WR six wheeled coaches to build from some Worsley Works etches. I've got a brake 3rd (not a birdcage unfortunately as Allen didn't have any in stock and as the etchers are in lockdown not likely to be in stock in the near future) and a 1st/2nd (1st/3rd in the period modelled) luggage composite. I'll start with the composite as I don't need to deal with those awkward lookouts. I've yet to find any drawings for the GS&WR six wheeled coaches, I've plenty for the MGWR equivalents, can anyone point me in the direction of some?

Thanks Irishswissernie, That does neatly lead me onto my first question, which is to try and establish service levels into Sligo in the early to mid 1930s. Is there a source for Working Timetables anywhere? A couple of months of watching ebay has not turned anything up. Starting with the line from Limerick, timetables published in C. E. J. Fryer's The Waterford and Limerick Railway for 1895 show 4 up trains from Limerick/Tuam: one goods, one mixed, one passenger one mail train. There was an additional passenger on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Presumably there would be balanced down workings also. So how were these working affected by the take over of the GS&WR and the GSR? By the 1957 timetable above the service had all but disappeared, I am guessing (hoping!) that traffic and so service levels in the early to mid 30s would still be healthy. A copy of Ernie Shepherd's Waterford, Limerick and Railway has just arrived so will hopefully offer some enlightenment.

Thanks Irishswissernie, Your Flickr pages are a massive source of inspiration both for my Irish and Scottish modelling so many thanks for the time, effort and expense you put into the site.

Love the chickens Galteemore, as you're probably aware Micheal Hamilton's mother kept chickens in the crossing keepers cottage at Dromahair and they roamed freely. There are photos of the chickens scratching around the yard during shunting operations. Something I'm definitely going to have to include, I just need to find a 2mm scale chicken.... (some does produce an etched one!)

Thanks RichL, that's exactly the view I haven't been able to find. IT will still be useful for the post civil war condition. With the post civil war girder roof I am hoping to make it lift out. I don't think this should be too difficult and that way I can have the best of both worlds, the roof in for photography and out for operating. The solid roof would hide too much of the trackwork and operation. Thanks David, Especially at the speed I build stock! hopefully I can get some core stock built in a reasonable timescale, will still involve 6 engines and associated trains if I define "core" as being one passenger and one freight from each of the feeding lines. Better get my finger out!

Thanks everyone for the positive response. Hi Midland Man, when I returned to modelling in my adult years I did dabble with 3mm scale. It wasn't successful, in most part because I didn't have the skills at the time. I also found the quality of the kits varied massively, some little better then blobs of metal vaguely representing the prototype, others were detailed etches. This made it hard to achieve any kind of consistency. I admire those who can get the scale to work. I find the support for 2mm scale offered by the Scale Association and other 2mm modellers to be great and have no regrets about choosing the scale so won't be changing. I do also model in 7mm when for when the desire to model something larger comes along. Hi StevieB, I'm intending to stick to what was actually built as it offers enough variety. The GNR(I) appeals less than other Irish lines, I think because it is the nearest to resembling UK railways. There is was enough GNR(I) stock moving around Sligo to provide variety, plenty of goods wagons and vans, the odd passenger coach and the SLNCR operated a pair of ex GNR(I) A class 0-6-0 engines in the period proposed. Hi RichL, The walls may be an issue but I intend the viewing height to be lower than my usual high level, probably around 3'6" which should give a view into the station, also modelling the approach will allow time for spectators to view the trains. It also makes it easier to conceal the kick back from the quay branch into the fiddle yard. Viewing form the other side would also lose teh engine shed as a view blocker for the fiddle yard exit. I will mock it up before I build it though and all plans made now will be subject to change! Hi Galteemore, Agreed! one reason for choosing the early to mid 1930s was exactly that. I've not seen any good views of the station with the original overall roof intact, so modelling would need a degree of supposition. Which leads nicely into reasons for the choice of time period:- Thanks to H C Casserley's wanderings the period is well photographed with good quality pictures. Whilst the engines are in the plain grey livery of the GSr they are still well cared for. These pictures show that much of the freight stock remained in pre-gouping livery giving a nice selection to model. The GSR introduced a chocolate and cream livery for its mainline bogie carriages which will add a splash of colour to the maroon and brown of the other carriage stock. The GSR re-built many of its constituent company's engines in, shall we say, an aesthetically challenged manner? However, at this early period many pre-grouping designs remained un-butchered giving a nice comparison. I don't have to paint the complex pre-grouping engine liveries!

Groan ! I've been pondering what direction my Irish modelling should take, I like to have an ultimate aim as this helps shape research and model construction. Until last year other than a fleeting interest in the SLCNR I hadn't given much attention to the Irish Railway scene, however, I decided to produce a small module (600mm x 225mm) for the 2mm Scale Association Diamond Jubilee Layout competition based on Dromahair Station on the SLNCR. The limited size of the module will restrict interest once the competition is over and it would be a shame to waste the stock built by not taking my Irish modelling further. Obviously the SLNCR shared tracks with the MGWR for the last few miles into Sligo and in the course of reading about the SLNCR my research has extended into the MGWR, a prototype to which I am become increasingly drawn. A model of Sligo Station is become a very attractive preposition. The time period will be early to mid 1930s (which I will deal with in another post). Whilst it is several years off being started (the majority of the stock will have to be scratch built and a core amount of stock will be required before the layout is viable) I thought I would start a topic to enable discussion and assistance to ensure the model is as an accurate representation as possible. The thread will also serve as a way to sort and capture the information for future use, and I hope, provide a useful resource for others. Working out the how and why and what was used by the real railway, for me, is a key part of any model build. So why Sligo? It fits in a nicely model able space, I reckon 9' x 1'6" will give enough room to model the station, engine sheds and junction down to the goods yard/quay in scale distance. I've already worked up a proof of concept Templot plan based on the 25" to the mile historic map available. A bit of shortening through the engine shed could be done without compromising the integrity of the model. The drawing above still needs a bit of work to correctly position the pointwork and achieve the smooth curve through the station approaches. The Engine shed is conveniently positioned to form a nice view blocker for the fiddle yard exit and the curve through the approaches and the station will remove the parallel to the baseboard "model" look. Whilst being a main town station there is little built environment in the immediate vicinity helping focus on the railway (and avoids the need to model time consuming urban buildings). The Station was built on embankment which gives an imposing look, quite different to most locations (as seen below in this extract form Google Street View. Apart from being the terminus of the SLNCR from Enniskillen it was operated by the MGWR from Dublin and the WLWR (later GSWR) from Limerick. Large quantities of freight from the GNR came in over the SLNCR along with the occasional passenger coach on excursion so lots of variety of stock which included the majority of my favourite Irish prototypes. The was no run round facility in the station which will add to operational interest. Although not as intensive as main city terminal the convergence of three routes did give a good number of trains working (I think 24, 12 up and 12 down, in the period modelled, more anon). Train lengths were relatively short ( and model able). I already have quite a few of the main texts dealing with Sligo but any pointers to the less obvious sources or photos would be appreciated. I do intend to get over for a visit at some point in the next few years, hopefully with my bike so I can cycle the SLNCR route. I can take some detailed photos and measurements of any structures that remain. Thanks for your interest. Angus

Hi Arbhin, I'm just following up on Midland Man's post above. N Scale/2mm scale in the UK (and by extension Ireland) is a bit confused. The rest of the world use 1:160 scale on 9mm track which scales well for 4' 8" standard gauge, however, in the UK 1:148 is used on 9mm track (rather like HO/3.5mm and OO/4mm but without such a great difference). 2mm Finescale also exists at "true scale" 1:152 using 9.42mm gauge for UK standard gauge and 10.5mm gauge for Irish 5' 3". I model in using the 1:152 scale but where appropriate I am not afraid to use standard Commercial models in 1:148 or 1:160 as a basis (rolling stock needs re-wheeling to the appropriate gauge and wheel profile) , the difference in scale is barely noticeable. If you want to work to "real Irish standard" then 2mm finescale is really the only way to go and I would recommend joining the 2mm Scale Association which gives the 2mm community great support. http://www.2mm.org.uk/ You need to be aware though that you would be modelling a niche interest in a specialist scale. There is very little trade support for Irish Railways in N scale/2mm. There are a few 3d prints for loco, coach and wagon bodies via Shapeways and Worsley Works produce a limited range of Carriage sides. Occasionally etches reduced from 4mm become available, but these are usually only as a one off so you have to be "in the know" when these are produced and get and order in. Everything else has to be scratch built. Standard components (wheels, axles, buffers, coach fittings etc.) can be sourced from a couple of sellers, I can provide details if you are interested

I always used to struggle soldering white metal to white metal (when working in 7mm scale not 2mm scale! Soldering white metal in 2mm scale would soon reduce everything to a small blob!). I was given a tip at an exhibition from the chap on the S&D castings stands, which works for me. Use low melt solder in the bar form, the strip solder has been melted to get it into this form so is slightly less user friendly (I don't know if this is true but I find the bar solder easier to deal with) Use a low wattage iron without temperature control, you get the heat at the tip to melt the solder but there is not sufficient power to sufficiently heat a large surface to do any real damage to the main structures (unless you dwell for a really long time with the iron). Tin both surface you want to join with the low melt solder. I have a cheap 15w iron set aside for just this use.

Hi Irishwissernie, I would love a copy of the drawing and would happily pay any out of pocket expenses. Would it be possible to get a scan, obviously after the current restrictions are lifted? Thanks Angus

A question about the DSER van in the first photo are the doors a different colour to the body of have they just been recently replaced? I have a spare bought by mistake if you want a copy?

I believe the SLNCR bogie carriages' bearings ran hot if operated at normal speeds not found on the SLNCR so were restricted to operating on home rails (and over the MGWR to Sligo). I don't know about the 6 wheelers, although they appeared to be in a pretty shocking state by the 50s (apart from the re-painted no 4). The SLNCR appeared to have borrowed 6 wheeled stock if one of the railcars broke down rather than using their own.

A little while ago I was looking for inspiration as to what I might model to reflect my growing MGWR interest. I spent some time in the "National inventory of Architectural Heritage" web site. The link below takes you to the remains of the fortress coal stage and watertower at Sligo. https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/32006061/macdiarmada-sligo-railway-station-rathedmond-sligo-county-sligo If you click view on a map it shows other structures of interest that remain which can be opened to reveal photos of their current state. Alternatively in the map view you can select different map backgrounds including, for most locations, the historic 25" to the mile map which has some detail of the track formations. You can search different areas in the mapping function you can then pan down into remaining buildings and track layouts. I think I lost a weekend in that site but now have track plans for most of the MGWR terminal stations.

hi jhb171achill, I have one of that suppliers bodies for the SLNCR railcar B. It is a fairly accurate rendering my only complaint would be some of the window bars are a bit thick, but then I am working in 2mm scale and there is a minimum practical thickness. Unfortunately Shapeways appears to be using (relatively) old tech printers. The quality seen from some of the modern hobbyist resin printers far surpasses that provided by Shapeways. This means a lot of finishing work is required due to surface stepping in the print. As a result you lose a lot of details. The process (a soak in white spirit to remove the wax) also makes the model quite brittle, so despite my complaint about thick window bars above I have managed to break a few whilst handling and sanding down. Obvious sanding and finishing heavily panelled stock would be problematic if you want to preserve all the detail. All that said, they are the only non-card option for MGWR coaches if you wish to avoid scratch building. With work they could be turned into good models and some of the issues I have highlighted here will be less apparent in 4mm scale. They are however a long way off "open the box and plonk on a chassis" modelling that some suggest. I am tempted by some of the 2mm versions and no doubt will try them out in a couple of months, probably using the Worsley works GSWR 6 wheeler chassis.

Thanks jhb171achill, your sharing of livery knowledge is very much appreciated! In response to Mayner's difficulties with the van strapping I thought I'd post up my method here in the hope it may be of use to someone. As with all techniques, it is how I do it, it works for me, there are many other methods. I say my method, it is actually a tip I picked up from Jim Watt (CaleyJim over on RMweb) who also produces some Caledonian Railway wagon etches in 2mm scale. I've built some of these kits up (seen in the photo below on my UK based layout with the now obligatory 5p piece) and have another dozen or so in the "to do" pile. The method is to take the etch with the strapping on and shade the areas you don't want to attach on the reverse side with a soft pencil (although HB will do) . Tin the back of the etched strapping with a thin layer of solder. Having applied a wipe of flux to the strapping and a drop to the van sides where you want the strapping to go you can then use the edges of the etch to position the strapping exactly where you want it, then press down with the hot soldering iron until you hear the sizzle of the flux and see the flash of solder. The whole etch should now be firm attached. If so cut the strapping from the etch with a sharp craft knife and clean up with a couple of wipes with a fibre brush. The solder will not adhere to the etch surround due to the pencil shading. Hope that helps someone and that I'm not teaching granny to suck eggs!

Hi David, Those MGWR horseboxes are full of character what ever the scale. love the 5p!

Hi Galteemore, The text looks to be two lines long so would be longer. In the UK it was quite common to have "when empty return to XXXXXX" I was wondering if this was something similar. I haven't noticed such script on any other Midland vans.

Hi Galteemore, Thanks for those, they're nice detailed views of three vans on my build list. Most useful!

With the Horsebox finished I've been cracking on with the first of the meat vans. Lessons from the horsebox build has meant the van is going quicker. Here staged beside the obligatory 5p piece. I couldn't resist a shot with the horsebox. I'm planning to finish the first of the meat vans in MGWR livery. The only photo I've found of a van in this condition is the one in this link: I would love to know what the writing on the bottom planks says. It is probably too small to reproduce in 2mm scale. I like to know all the same, any ideas out there?

Hi jhb171achill, I think 1934-35ish is definitely the "sweet spot" of my interest. So a bit of back dating at Dromahair is required. I've also being playing around with Sligo in Templot. The background map is a bit weird as along its length it is to scale but slightly under scale in width, still it gives a good impression from a first attempt.Most of the pointwork is 1 in 7 but I had to go sharper in the engine yard just to make the trackwork fit. The faint outline is the proposed baseboards at just over 9' x 1'6" the two board being connected at an angle to allow for the curve. It's this curve which give the layout a nice feel. Note, the loading bay spur in front of the station needs extending bit. I've curved the line down to the Quays back to allow a freight traffic to reverse into the fiddle yard off scene. The reverse curve will be hidden by the trees present in real life. Anyway, enough dreaming! Prompted by a request for a photo for the 2mm Scale Association's bi-monthly magazine I've finished the horsebox build (still needs paint and decals) The vents were formed from 0.6mm wire, two lengths being bent to shape and the backs filed to half thickness and the pair soldered together. It was actually easier than I feared, the harder part was getting the vents mounted in the roof at a similar level and alignment. Seen here posed on the fledgling Dromahair at the end of the goods bay ready for loading. I'll have to re-do the station sign as it has warped. I'm now on with the first of the meat vans. I'll post up progress as soon as I have anything worthwhile.

Thanks JHB171Achill. That livery information is useful, I think I'll go for the GSR livery. it will add a splash of colour and will still be correct if I turn the clock back to the mid 30s. I'll also keep my eye out for the Connemara book. C E J Fryer's Waterford & Limerick book has just landed so more reading underway for traffic feeding Sligo. Lots of nice D17 pics, one of the nicer GSWR locos as Mayer's recent build ably demonstrates.

A question if I may Jhb171achill? Presumably the horsebox would have been maroon as a NPCS vehicle? If so would the chassis have been grey originally? Thanks.

Indeed David, that's the book I picked up that technique. It's a volume that should be on every modellers book shelf.

That's a very nice van you've built there Galteemore, the rivets stand out particularly well.

Hi David, I fairness I try to avoid painting anything black (unless it's an LNWR engine) for chassis I use a mixture of gunmetal and black mixed to give a faded metallic dark grey.