leslie10646

At last found time to scan the following: I can't remember how I came to have it, but it is like new! Anyway, and especially for David's benefit, the Derry Central pages show that those lines had as good a service from Belfast as Sligo, Westport, or even possibly Galway had from Dublin in the 1950s/ early 60s? Of course, to achieve three Belfast to Coleraine services, you did have to change trains! Note that you could even travel by NCC railcar to Randalstown. On Saturdays, the service was nearly as "busy" ...... None of the trains appear to worked through to Portrush, but you could travel on to the resort half an hour after your arrival at Coleraine. The Up direction was just as interesting....... And the Saturday service ....... It's no wonder that Ken Gillen modelled Cookstown Jct - it was a pretty busy place with a serious variety of activity? The Northerners among you can work out lots of different ways to spend a day travelling on these lines - I wonder how many miles you could do in a day? Answers on a postcard .........

Just repeating a post on another topic which has got impressively off subject. Midland Man remembered a Horse-worked tramway in Co Cork and in my reply, I mention the Allman's distillery siding / branch. Roderick's new little loco would have been a good candidate for use on the little branch. I presume the Hard Stuff for All Men is no longer around - is anyone old enough to have tried it? It might have been just the thing when one is locked up (down?). 3 hours ago, Midland Man said: Wow great pics I remember hearing about a branch in Cork that was horse oporated. Like on the Fintona The horses only carried one name. Insted of Dick like on the Fintona branch they were all called Paddy. Yes, MM, the siding to the Bennett flour mill at Shannonvale (from the Clonakilty line of the CBSCR) was ALWAYS horse worked - I believe that Colm Creedon in his little history of the line stated that the horse pulled wagons up to the main line, but gravity "hauled" them in the other direction! There is a photo of the (white) horse with a "H" Van at the mill in Ernie Shepherd's later book. Ah, well done Mr R - beat me to it! At first I thought it was the Allman's Distillery branch, but that was always loco-worked.

Yes, MM, the siding to the Bennett flour mill at Shannonvale (from the Clonakilty line of the CBSCR) was ALWAYS horse worked - I believe that Colm Creedon in his little history of the line stated that the horse pulled wagons up to the main line, but gravity "hauled" them in the other direction! There is a photo of the (white) horse with a "H" Van at the mill in Ernie Shepherd's later book. Ah, well done Mr R - beat me to it! At first I thought it was the Allman's Distillery branch, but that was always loco-worked.

Agreed, Patrick! That most be the rarest haulage / rolling stock / track combo ever! The only way to cover the Fintona branch BY STEAM would have been to hitch an illegal ride on the goods, which was, of course, steam - but to ride the branch in the tram, steam hauled was really serious stuff! For the young among you, we "oldies" only count track if we've been over it behind steam and secondly, being a 'timer' I usually only "time" steam hauled trains - no use making the hobby too easy? Despite that stringent rule, I have travelled by steam from my home station were I was born and my present home in Surrey to VLADIVOSTOK - over a third of the way around the earth - of course, I had to cross the Irish Sea (steamship) and the North Sea (likewise). There IS a gap - 17kms outside Minsk when the (blank) engine ran out of water and was rescued by one of Dr Diesel's machines. Of course, the route across Germany is a bit circuitous, but is all joined up over thirty years.

No.31 wasn't a "V" Class, but a much earlier beast - a "K" Class 0-6-0 built in 1878 and rebuilt a couple of times before being withdrawn (as seen in Jon's photo) in 1947. But yes, the NCC ran some really archaeic tenders behind locos even after the locos themselves had had life-changing surgery which made them look much more modern.

First, I can attest to the beauty of the "Whippet" model referred to above. When Jim unveiled it on the IRRS stand at Warley a few years ago, everything stopped for an hour while we drooled over it! Just to underline what was around at York Road in 1961 when I first visited it with the late (Lord) John Laird - I quote from my 1961 account of railway activity - "Early observations included the usual Class WTs, behind which I was to cover many thousands of miles, indeed behind every member of the Class. Less usual, even then, was the sight of Class W 2-6-0 No.99 “King George VI” shunting and then acting as banker to the “Eight-Five” Goods (the 8.05pm goods to Londonderry). This was the normal running-in turn for a locomotive just out of the York Road shops. I assume that No.99 returned to the Great Northern within the week. Also there in a siding and by now out of use, was No.80 “Dunseverick Castle”, the last active Class U2 “Scotch Engine”. She was in lined UTA black. Her sister, No.74 “Dunluce Castle” was already marked for preservation in the new Belfast Transport Museum at Witham Street and I have a later note of seeing her at York Road. From time to time, one would also note another early NCC survivor in the form of 0-6-0 No.13, which often shunted the yard, except when there was a newly-outshopped loco to use. The final steam locomotive to be mentioned here was No.19, a re-gauged LMS “Jinty” Class 3F 0-6-0 tank, formerly LMS 7553. She and her sister (No.18, formerly LMS 7456) were sent over by the parent LMS to replace locomotives lost in the Belfast Blitz. I saw her frequently during these early visits when she was often in use as a pilot engine.

Even the gift of 186 was the result of a chance intervention by the Chairman of Guinness - someone who must have had considerable clout back then! He chaffed the chair of CIE when Guinness handed a shunter over to the RPSI - ‘we have two steam locos and we gave them one. You have a lot more - why don’t you donate one?!’ Yep, Chapter and Verse, Mr R - it certainly saved us a bomb! As for the new VS, it'll really be a replica and be named after Ireland's Holy River - "Boyne".

"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smokestack Butting up the Channel in the Mad March days With a cargo of Tyne Coal Road rails Pig iron Firewood, ironware and cheap tin trays" Super little ship, George and deserving of a nicer verse than John M's famous verse quoted above! If ye're in Lockdown, ye can get on wi' yon "Quinquireme of Nineveh"

However, the big issue for future steam is turntables and restricted speed for tender-first running. JHB, you're right about the turntables, No.4 seems to be overly restricted under the present regime's thinking - mind you, I've never timed a tank at more than 76mph bunker first (1960s, of course - the fabled Billy Steenson). The other Big Issue is coal, a little matter which is exercising the minds of the great and good of the HRA these days. Now, if I won the Euromillions...... First, I don't participate, so I'm safe from such bounty, but if I had the dough - it'd be another Class VS 4-4-0 (and use the change for a couple of turntables!!!! If I had a quid for every person who said how nice it would be to have No.800 out again - I'd have built No.211 years ago! Regrettably, a superb looking as 800 is, she's quite impractical due to her restriction due to height - couldn't even get up the GN mainline in 1964 with some surgery to footbridges. Now, No.27 and the two J15s / 101s - the RPSI should consider passing one of them to the DCDR. A final thought - if only we could have foreseen the inflation of the 1970s in 1970 when we bought No.4 for £1,275 - we would have risked a loan to buy a second one (like No.53?). I'm off to bed to see what else I can dream up!

Ref the Hunslets, while Jon is probably right that they'd have done just as well with a few 141s, but these locos were a shock to my steam-loco timer's system when I rode one to Portadown to see how fast they were. When we shot through Lisburn about 10 mph faster than I'd ever done with a steam loco and in my fastest time to that date, I nearly gave up timing. Sanity prevailed, of course, and now 130,000 steam miles later I have those logs to "write up" during my lock-down! Hah! I've just noticed that I have accumulated 424 "Likes" - The HUNGARIAN 424 Class 4-8-0s are one of my largest classes for haulage - 30 of them, top speed 53mph - Lord were they pedestrian! Another piece of useless info from yours truly!

Nothing on their website. I got the same e-mail, but almost all in lowercase - VERY unlike Rebecca. Is it a hoax? It wouldn't be my idea of a potentially good seller - but the four CBSCR modellers will be deliriously happy?

Getting back to the topic as raised by David ...... Mayner is right to point David at Mac's NCC Saga and JHB was on the button regarding the nature of Mac's work - you are told on the Title Page of the Saga - "Where the Enginemen were the Heroes and the Villain the Diesel Engine. Anyway, David, if you're tempted you can get a copy at a sensible price on ABE: see - https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-home-_-Results&an=&tn=ncc+saga&kn=&isbn= in fact The Syndicate may have a copy - I'll PM you. The "Crackerjack" book mentioned by BSGSV above is an interesting volume as it looks at the NCC's timetables over three separate periods in its history. Finally, David, the line did see some hefty trains from time to time. In the 1930s, the celebrated Malcolm Speir used to run FIREWORKS trains to Portrush on mid week evenings - for about half a crown return - if there were too many takers, one of the specials ran over the Derry Central from Macfin to Cookstown Jct to free paths on the mainline. Clever guy, old Malcolm, for I believe he set up the fireworks displays in POrtrush, probably underwritten by the LMS, and then ran the trains there to see them. Talk about making your own luck!

Don't worry, Jon, I'll send you the tapes from my security cameras and you'll be able to pick him out - mind you you'll have to remember WHEN you came, otherwise about 20 hours of viewing! Leslie

Well, I may use part of my three month lock-down to put Syndicate stuff on eBay and get a younger neighbour to post things for me. Over the years The Syndicate has raised tens of thousands for Irish Preservation. That's if I have any tine from trying to get back the money on a load of train travel in Europe planned over Easter! Still taking orders for Provincial Wagons - never a better time to try one of my kits! Keep well, folks. Leslie

I'm with Dave on this. Code 100 Peco, but probably because I had so much of it from pre-Code 75 days. Noel is right that the Setrak points give too big a gap between rails, but the Peco Setrak sure saves a lot of cutting of Flexible track lengths. They made a "Special Curve" to go with their Y Point - little thinking that I would have about 30 of them on the layout to save difficult joins on some of my curves. That said, the Proxxon tool with a cutting disc gets a lot of use. Time spent track-laying is well spent (finding the patience is another matter!), especially if like Noel and I you like running long trains effortlessly!

The entire Cork - Bantry service was worked by one AEC set - a necessary RTR thing, by the way, for the entire CIE and GNR systems, and a lot of the UTA & early NIR.... All too true, Jon. When I was researching that timetable to do the talk on Lance King's slides, I was initially taken in by the two trains a day, until I realised that most branches had a single train - by connecting into those trains - to or from Cork each day! A pity the line didn't survive, as Dick Fearn would have had five trains a day on it and, I suspect with the popularity of West Cork these days - well filled. ICRs to Bantry? Or to visit The Lady from Baltimore (yeah, I know it was the US one, but it was a great song). By the way guys, thanks for the comments on photos - I'll see they get passed on

Not an official IRRS statement, but from member working in this area: Fair comment, Kevin, I think I can say "we are working on it" - meaning the NUMBER of images there. However, is it SO unreasonable that images collected, scanned and maintained by The Society should be exclusively available to those who support it through their membership? A couple of us are looking at ways of making low-res versions visible, with a high res print available to buy.

Jon You're right about your choice of locos / stock, as Lance King's photos show exactly that selection. For the Tramway to Courtmacsherry, you can add a MGWR 0-6-0T - as Andy Cundick shows on his layout. The other loco, not so easy to source, would be an Ivatt 2-4-2T tank, but only for the trip working between Glanmire and Albert Quay through the streets! Lance took a super photo of one crossing the River Lee two weeks before the End. Mick, I was about to tell you to go to a library night at IRRS Dublin and visit the Holy of Holies where you'll find not just the WTTs but also the Weekly notices which would give you a heads up on beet and fair specials. Then I remembered where you lived!!! Ernie has done a good job above, but if you want other years, I have some CIE WTTs here and consulted them when putting my recent talk on Lance's stuff together.

Getting back to the original post (!). Richard pointed me at a photo in the GNR history and at first glance, the proposed Oxford crane is the spitting image of the GNR's No.2 crane. There is a book, I believe on Cowan's, which should confirm that the GNR crane was the same, or similar to, the Oxford one. I'm starting a "Book" on the exact date that Oxford have them on sales here - starting, say, two years from now? A Euro a bet? Good news, though, for those with space in a siding on their GN layouts!

Come off it, Noel, it's not as if my kits of the Bulleid corrugated open, or the H van are that difficult to build! See: http://www.provincialwagons.com/cie-wagons/ and the price remains the same, even though some eejit thinks the Pound is worth 5% more than when I set the price! Leslie (aka Provincial Wagons)

Good Man for reminding the folk about this. Tim and Dick will be delighted to see you there - AND you get a free drink on the Society! Leslie

As an aside, I know the IRRS website states one can obtain back issues for reasonable cost, but does anyone know how you actually go about doing that on their website or am I missing something? For fairly recent Journals, you could go along to a Dublin "Library Night" and talk to one of the guys, who should be able to point you in the right direction. For earlier Journals, The Syndicate (the Irish preservation fund raising vehicle set up by the late Lance King and now continued by Robin Linsley and I) have some Journals for sale right back to the 1950s. If any of you has a specific want, send me a PM. Expect to pay at least a fiver (Sterling), but we do discount for volume. If Dublin is "out of reach", I'll put you in touch with the right person.

If any of you missed my talk - WITH LANCE KING IN IRELAND - 1958-1963 - to the IRRS London Area in December, I am repeating it to the READING TRANSPORT GROUP on Wednesday 5th February 2020 at 1945. The meeting will be held on the first floor at Church House, Church Street, Caversham, next to Waitrose Address for SatNavs is ; Church House, 59 Church Street, Caversham, Reading RG4 8AX If any of you are in the vicinity, come along and see some super photos f the end of one era and the beginning of another. I can send more detailed location info. By the same token, I am available for talks on this (and other subjects at your local Railway Society - just get in touch! Leslie

I've had a quick look through the JOurnal Index and no article has come to light on the Mark 3s. There will be references to them in the News sections of Journals, but I haven't come across an article on these coaches. PLenty on OLD coaches - like pre-1960! As you say, young man, there are usually "interesting snippets" in the JOurnal, no matter what era is your thing. Dare I say it - why not join and go along to a library night - as far as I know, you can then reference the full set. Good luck with your research. Leslie (IRRS LOndon)

It will be up to our brothers on the mainland methinks. Thanks, Dave, we'll have to consider our position in more ways than one! I'm not surprised that you guys are still recovering from your efforts in 2019, it's hard work. Anyway, I hope to see you at Raheny! As for Warley, Andy is showing his Welsh layout this year, but plans a Co Donegal layout the following year.