Mol_PMB

The first half was excellent - hope the second half is just as good.

Tonight! LIVE MEETING with online attendance option FRIDAY 20 FEBRUARY 2026 @ 18:00 - 20:40 "Celebrating Great Victoria Street – Part 1" by Robert White May 2024's final removal of Belfast's Great Victoria Street terminus from Ireland's railway map prompted this eulogy for the departed. A user of the station since the early 1960s, Robert White looks back over its life and times, from the early days of the Ulster Railway through to its evolution during the life of the GNR(I) and early UTA years. Could the earliest plans for a different station location have made the Belfast Central Railway unnecessary? Growth, alterations and many unknown features of the station are all illustrated. Robert is the absolute master of his subject. His meticulous and extensive research has uncovered many previously unseen images and much new information from a wide variety of sources. Step by step he traces the development of Great Victoria Street station and its surrounding railway lands, not just in terms of railway operations but also within the context of the social and economic development of Belfast over the decades. Every aspect of the station is examined and a clear story told from the initial identification of the station site to its operation at maximum extent under the GNR(I) and UTA. On the approaches to the station, Robert describes how the signalling arrangements evolved, and explains the expansion of loco, goods and carriage facilities complementary to the station itself - perhaps the most significant of these being the relocation of the GNR(I) Belfast loco depot from Great Victoria Street to Adelaide. This is an exceptionally well told railway story. It not only encapsulates the story of Great Victoria Street station, but is also a reflection of how railways and railway operations generally developed over the first century of railways in Ireland. The meeting will be held at The Gallery at Alan Baxter, 77 Cowcross Street, Farringdon LONDON EC1M 6EL. Entry is £3 for IRRS members, £5 for non-members. It will also be shown via Zoom. To obtain a Zoom link to the meeting : REGISTER HERE

The GSR locos book is a large tome and was originally quite expensive, so I'm not sure whether either of these come within your definition of a 'reasonable' price? https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781906578268/Locomotives-GSR-Clements-Jeremy-McMahon-1906578265/plp I only have the GSWR volume which is about A4 size, over an inch think and has about 300 pages. It is full of technical detail, drawings and photos.

Leaving something for the modeller to do? IRM used to provide tail lamp kits - do AS do the same? For some of their career, I think these brake vans would have carried side lamps too. Most of the Irish vans had side lamps built in. I confess I'm not certain of the rules on the illumination and colour of side lamps in Ireland. No doubt someone with an old rulebook will enlighten us.

Lucky for you it's not 2509 3/4, because the Harry Potter bus would be foul of the loading gauge.

I hope the move goes well for you, and that you are up for another round of babysitting! I’m still working through the kits I bought from you last year - 2 done, 1 to go.

I’ll give it a go - I’ve ordered the one @Galteemore shows. I generally find Carr’s Green to be an excellent flux but as my eyesight gets a bit worse with age I find myself being closer to the job and the fumes are not very kind to the lungs.

That's a good tip - many thanks. Any particular brand you would recommend?

Thanks to Ernie for the photos! Good question and I haven't yet found a definite answer. By 1967 the points at the junction were disconnected, but the junction seems to have been reinstated in the 1970s and a short portion of the branch used as a freight siding for a while.

I only ordered one copy of this etch, but I've actually been sent two sets. The one I haven't used is marked 'Dodgy - Replace' but I'm struggling to see much wrong with most of it. I'll have a closer look at the weekend, but was just wondering if anyone else would be interested in a set of these bits for either the full brake or the sleeping car? It's not a complete kit, just sides and roof to go with the SSM underframe, ends and detailing parts.

I seem to have spent all day burning my fingers, inhaling phosphoric acid fumes, and ingesting toxic metal dust. I had forgotten how long it takes to detail up the rooves of these 6-wheel coaches, but I'm finally just about there. I've slightly simplified the gas piping and I've had to make up a few bits that weren't clear on the photos, but I think these are satisfyingly 'busy' which appeals to me. And very often we see models from above so I think it's worth putting the effort in. There's a bit more cleaning up to do, but I'll leave that for a day or two. Perhaps I will finish the assembly of these two coaches this weekend, and get them into primer.

Shall we be charitable and consider it a C&L 4-4-0T?

Roof construction in progress for the full brake and the sleeping car: Somehow I drew the holes in the sleeping car roof about 0.5mm too small and I'm having to enlarge them slightly to fit in the water tanks. Careless of me. Perhaps I double-counted the kerf allowance. Once the main parts are done there will be lots of fiddly gas piping and castings to add.

From Ernie, 2509 in the light green with black roof as you describe, seen in 1960: You'll be wanting an RB3 next! Photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr:

I have stumbled across some more information which has driven me to revisit the section on the Park Royals used with railcars on the Waterford and Tramore. I don't think any of this is new, but I need to correct an error that I had made in interpreting the data. There were two Park Royals on the W&T, 1407 and 1408. One was a driving trailer. Several sources including my original source for this thread, an appendix in the book 'Diesel Dawn', list 1407 as the driving trailer and I have been guilty of perpetuating the error in this thread. BSGSV gets it right in the thread linked below, 1407 was the intermediate and 1408 was the driving trailer: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/3566-park-royal-driving-trailers/#findComment-60291 Here's a link to a photo in the NLI collection showing driving trailer 1408 during its period of disuse, with the number legible (shown on the cropped version below): https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306739 There is a nice colour photo in 'Irish Railways in the 1950s and 1960s' (McCormack) page 125 showing a W+T train in 1957 formed of all 5 'modern' vehicles - 3 AEC railcars and 2 Park Royals.

2509 was painted light green for a short while around that time. I’d take that as a guide. It didn’t stay that colour for long, being repainted in BnT.

Inspired by these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508917406 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511597820 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511332133 There were others with slightly different variations of panelling, vents etc. I chose one without a birdcage lookout, but the roof does have small skylights each end.

I've not seen one of those in CIE livery before! It looks the part though, somewhere between railbus 2508 and railcar 2509.

There’s nothing more exciting than getting stuck in to something new. This is why my workbench is littered with half-finished projects. But I can’t help myself! Sides for the full brake completed: I did the underframe a couple of weeks ago, so roof and ends still to do. Not much interior needed in this van.

Excitement as the postie has delivered a shiny new etch this morning!

That's partly why I put the build dates in my list. The corridor composite was built in 1954. It has the simplified lining style of that time, and lacks a snail, which was also normal for the early 1950s. So I think it's carrying its as-built livery which would have been applied before the light green was introduced. The main line Park Royal would have been built in 1955. In contrast, the 8-bay open second type was built from 1958 after the light green livery was introduced, and it also has a snail typical of this period. I know you are absolutely sure of the fact that there were only two colours of green, but there were definitely more than two styles of green livery (in terms of lining, lettering and snails) and I think there is a clear logical progression through the years that most vehicles conform to (there will always be a few exceptions). For me, the photographic evidence (and some of the written evidence) would suggest that there were three shades of green but there are so many complicating factors in that discussion. I have been collecting images of CIE trains which show multiple green shades in the same image and lighting conditions, to inform my research, and some day I'll write a thread about this. Ideally I'd like to study some more 1950s written material (CIE documents and IRRS/ IRN journals etc) but I'm struggling to find those.

Here's a lovely colour photo of a passenger train in the landscape around 1960: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449694369 The liveries are a mix of silver, light green and dark green, my interpretation being: Silver A class Light green tin heating van Dark green corridor composite (2137-2161 series of 1954, I think) Dark green Park Royal (1419-1428 main line type, note frosted toilet window) Light green 8-bay open second (1449-1496 series of 1958-60, I think) Silver tin luggage van Vac-fitted goods van So it looks like the main line Park Royal models can be realistically produced in Dark Green, Silver, Light Green, as well as several variants of BnT.

A pity there isn't a date on the silver Park Royal photo. I agree with you that it was most likely silver from new. I reiterate that a silver Park Royal is not 'unpainted'. If it was unpainted it would be rusty steel, not shiny aluminium. Here are some under construction at Inchicore showing the steel bodyshells painted in primer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251537558 The finish of the brand new silver Park Royal is obviously different from the highly-reflective aluminium finish of the tin van bodyshells when new (as shown in your photo at the top of the thread). The tin van underframes were silver-painted steel, and have the same flatter finish seen on the silver Park Royal. I do think its worth looking at the dates a bit more closely, because the vast majority of the Park Royals entered service before anything in the silver/aluminium livery. The dreadful weathering of silver/aluminium stock would not have been obvious at the time that the Park Royals were being built. Suburban Park Royals: 1955 (the earliest photo I've found, under construction, is dated 23 Oct 1954) Main Line Park Royals: 1956 (the earliest photo I've found, brand new in green livery on trial, is dated 22 Oct 1955) Stock entering service in silver/aluminium livery: A Class: 27 Sept 1955 to 9 Jan 1957 3101-3141 Heating vans: 1955-1956 1429-1443 Standards: 1956 [number series follows on from the Park Royals] B101 Class: 9 April 1956 to 23 Dec 1957 G601 Class: 1 June 1956 to 11 Mar 1957 2162-2171 Composites: 1957 [there's a photo of a brand new one in use on 26 Mar 1957] 2700-2765 Luggage vans: 1957 C Class: 4 March 1957 to 22 Jan 1958 (231/234 entered service in green in Jan 1958 but 232/233 were silver on 22 Jan 1958) 2962-2971 4w TPOs: 1957 E401 Class: 10 July 1957 to 21 Mar 1958 2972-2978 TPOs: 1958 1444-1448 Standards: 1958 [these may have been green] So, at the time the main line Park Royals were being built in autumn 1955, the first silver A class were just arriving, and the first of the heating vans were being built to run with them. The heating vans would have entered service alongside the A class as they were not needed with steam locos. The earliest photo I've found of a main line Park Royal, dated 22 Oct 1955, shows it alongside absolutely pristine brand new heating vans: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260 All the other stock in the silver/aluminium livery came after the main line Park Royals. CIE persisted with the unpainted aluminium finish for new stock until 1958 (2 years after the main line Park Royals entered service), and I suspect this change was linked to the retirement of Bulleid on 30th May 1958. 'Laminate' stock continued to be built, but it was painted light green. It's quite possible that the silver-painted Park Royal was the first CIE passenger coach in the silver livery (other than 'Silver Princess' in the previous decade).

if anyone’s looking for some layout coaches this could be a good bargain. https://ebay.us/m/ANOjEK

Indeed. There has not yet been a ready-to-run Irish TPO, as far as I'm aware. And the only kits were made in fairly small numbers and are no longer readily available. So you may struggle to find an unwanted one out there. The forthcoming IRM Park Royal coach has the right underframe and bogies for a CIE bogie TPO, but the body is entirely different.