Mol_PMB

Here are a couple of my old photos of the Waterford push-pull set with the unique Cafe/Bar coach, seen here between Cork and Mallow. Probably a Sunday? By this time, most of the push-pulls were branded Intercity, but there's one without (in addition to the Cafe/Bar) Sorry for the poor quality - these are scans of prints frm 35mm negatives. Tralee train on the same occasion:

Thanks - that's useful to confirm it was a water tank. Presumably then it was for loco feedwater rather than drinking water. I know that some railways had drinking water tank wagons for supplying remote stations and signalboxes. Steam traction at Fenit finally ended in 1962/3 when the G class arrived to finally replace 560. But as you say, there was a water tower at the station, seen here in use in 1961: I wondered whether it might have been used to supply the steam cranes on the pier (which lasted into the early 1970s), but given the number of buildings out there I think there must have been a freshwater supply on the pier.

Here's one of the wooden-framed type, now re-clad in ply, in 1955: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49202953702

It's worth noting that there were other similar wagons, though all different in detail, and they appear on some lifting trains: This photo of Fenit in 1955 appears to show a similar tank wagon (though not 574B): https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000733673 So there must have been a need for these wagons at Fenit which would explain why 574B was allocated to Tralee-Fenit after the West Cork lines closed. What was it for?

Now, the story of this veteran doesn't end with the closure of the West Cork lines in 1961. Here's 574B with a fresh coat of paint at Glanmire Road in the early 1960s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772934 It's now lettered: MAINTENANCE DEPT CORK TO WORK BETWEEN TRALEE AND FENIT. There appear to have been some modifications to the pump arrangement but it's not clear in the photo. By 1969 it was photographed at Glanmire Road again, and had been modified and re-lettered. The tanks have been moved closer together but the connecting pipes may have been removed. It now appears to be labelled as a water tank but with two different types of water. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435012 I can't quite read all the lettering on the side but I think it includes: TO RUN BETWEEN WATER DEPT CORK AND LIMERICK ONLY MAINTENANCE DEPT CORK BALLAST WATER DE?????ATED WATER The wagon was seen again at Glanmire Road in 1977, by now marked for withdrawal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570779639 That's all I've got so far.

Wagon 574B, later renumbered 574A, had an ancient-looking wooden frame with two rectangular tanks mounted on it. There was also some pipework and what may have been a manual pump with a small-diameter hose attached. I would be interested to know what this wagon was used for. Surprisingly it appears in quite a lot of photos. We'll start with this image from Ernie at Courtmacsherry in 1954 - 574B is visible on the right: The B suffix indicates a former CBSCR wagon, which would be appropriate for the location. The stocklist in Ernie Shepherd's book on the CBSCR lists 574 as a 12-ton open wagon built in 1904 at their own Rocksavage works, and the design of the underframe appears very similar to other wagons built at Rocksavage around that time. So it's likely that the tank wagon was modified from that 1904-built open wagon. One end of the wagon had an upright framework which appears to support a pump feeding a small-diameter hose (about an inch diameter). With no apparent source of power I assume it's a manual pump. The tank at the other end of the wagon has a breather pipe on the side. The two tanks appear to be connected together by slightly larger diameter pipes at floor level. In the UK, rectangular tanks were often used for tar traffic, usually with some form of steam heating coils in the tank so that the tar could be liquified for discharge. But I don't think 574B was a tar tank - a manual pump and small-diameter hose would have been completely unsuitable for dispensing tar! 574B is also pictured in the CBSCR book, in exactly the same place as in Ernie's photo above, with a comment that it didn't seem to have moved for some time. The photo in the book is dated 1961, seven years after Ernie's picture. Other photos showing the same wagon, in the same place, in the 1954-61 period, are here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253242648 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252096157 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511289621 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570935860 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511479421 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253158039 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52018071852 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52351830186 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/7544336262 There's one twist though, in these photos the wagon isn't always the same way round. So it must have moved occasionally! The wagon may be associated with servicing steam locomotives. Was it a water tank? If so, pumping a useful amount of water through that little hose would have taken some time and effort, and the capacity of the wagon would only have refilled the loco a couple of times before the wagon itself needed refilling. Lubricants would be another possibility but the tank would have held well over a year's supply!

For the early, flat-ended unfitted type in the HMRS (Charles Roberts) photos and the post immediately above, I have the following number series: 23801-23845 (built 1953), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity 23851-23890 (built 1954), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity 25001-25020 (built 1962), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity Here's a photo of 23805: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527038 and here's 23829: The bulbous-ended bitumen tanks built for Shell were as follows: 501-510 (built 1971-2), 20' LOH, 13t tare, 18.5t capacity Here is 506, newly built at Inchicore: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511632099 They appear to have been rebuilt from 20' container flat wagons and still retain their ISO spigots on the corners of the underframe. However, the photo above also shows an RCH private owner wagon registration plate on the solebar, which proves that these tank wagons were privately owned rather than CIE-owned. This would explain why they weren't in the CIE number series. Then there were the ones with conical ends to the cladding, I think these belonged to Esso and there some information on them up-thread. I assume they were numbered in the Esso tank series 971 to 1013.

A few more of the big ones. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252071342/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508510346/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53501260495/ A bit of 15239: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255280193/ Height comparable to a Palvan; they both stand tall above the other types of van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511154776/ Another ply-skinned one, 15578: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255882812/ Here's a ply-skinned one which has been repainted with a roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613289 On the other hand, here's one of the similarly-styled but normal-sized ones. These also seem to have a different door latch and handle arrangement to the big boys, and they have the narrow plate W-irons and taller journals: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253237643/ Middle van of the near three is another normal-sized one, compared to a GNR 10t van and an H van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508655478/

Wonderful! Superb workmanship and finishing. No need to be scared of the airbrush when you can achieve that.

This is another of my random threads spawned from spending too much time on Flickr, posted here in the hope that some nuggets of information might be useful to others in future. Looking at a lot of photos from the late 1950s and early 1960s, it became apparent that filthey silver tin vans were ubiquitous, but green ones were really quite rare. I did find a few photos of green ones though, so I'll collate them in this thread. Initially I'm focusing on the luggage van variant, numbers 2700 to 2765, built in 1957 and outshopped in silver (unpainted aluminium for the body). The vast majority seem to have been allowed to get more and more filthy until the mid 1960s when they were repainted in black and tan. Most skipped the green livery phase which had been reintroduced in 1958/9 and lasted until the introduction of black and tan in 1961/2. Here are some photos of green ones I've found. 1959, definitely 2717 at Heuston: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253237378/ 1962, one was used in a special train to Ardnacrusha power station. There are lots of photos of this trip but it's always the same van, of course. I'm fairly confident it's 271# where the last digit may be 7. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454103743/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454390475 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468557251/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419891970/ 1962, number not visible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570940700/ 1963, number not visible: 1965, number not legible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251543369/ So, there was definitely 2717 in green and there may have been a few more. They were scarce though. Has anyone got any more examples? In due course I'll look at the heating van variants 3101-3152 - they were more common in green and the last batch were painted green from new.

A few more images of traditional tank wagons in Ireland, mostly of RCH types, images from Ernie and IRRS: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500839366/

From the book 'On the Move - CIE 1945-1995', a nice photo of a CIE container used on services across the Irish Sea on the Greenore-Preston route: A similar container in the background of Ernie's photo at Connolly in 1962:

A few more pics found with another trawl through Flickr - more to show how these 'Bog Boys' stood out in a train of H vans or older vans, being higher and a bit longer. Ernie's photos on Flickr: There was also a type of van that was similar in appearance but standard size. The rake of vans here includes both types - the nearest van on the extreme right-hand edge is a nortmal-sized one, whereas the one in the distance just to the right of the loco is a 'Big Boy'. Planking arrangements and styling are similar. The normal-sized ones have deeper and narrower W-irons, and the vertical ribs on the sides are closer to the ends, whereas on the 'Big Boy' the vertical ribs are further from the ends (because the ends are extended).

I've updated my table of the models produced to include the new ones, which are highlighted in bold: The IRM models are an excellent representation of the 1970 and 1972 batches and many of the new numbers are in these batches. The models are also very close to the 1967 batch, the only significant difference on these was the W irons (hard to see unless you look very closely). The 1965 batches had several differences originally but became more standardised over time. I'm looking forward to backdating a couple of the models with their older type of brakes and other details. I'm pleased to see that IRM have avoided numbers in the 1964 batch this time round as these had the most significant differences between prototype and model. There aren't any new grey ones so no chance for the gaffes committed with 25109, 25159 and 25187 in previous packs (none of these wagons were ever grey in reality). Overall I'm very pleased to see these reappear and I think there is a good selection of prototype numbers. I have duly ordered 3 packs. Thank you!

They didn't need a brake van. It was quite common for a few cement bubbles to be in the same train as container flats or fertiliser wagons, though equally they would run in a block train of cement. This photo by Colm O'Callaghan shows about the shortest train you could get away with - 4: But something like this train of 10, photo by John Law, would be more typical: See also:

Thanks. They weren't on the Description tab when I asked the question! Thanks to MOGUL for posting them here and adding them to the descriptions. Interestingly they don't tally with the numbers pictured. But we know what they are now, so that's all good. Looking back at the previous sets, all these running numbers are new and do not duplicate previous releases. Good work!

Thank you!

Sorry, me again, another question. Do you have a list of the wagon numbers for each set? Looking at the photos on the website the same photos are used to illustrate all 3 packs of each livery. The orange ones pictured are 25172 (tank 172), 25104 (tank 55, the correct number offset for the early period before the tanks were renumbered to match the wagons) and 25156 (tank 156). The ivory ones pictured are 25122 (tank 122), 25106 (tank 106) and 25115 (tank 115). Which set has these numbers and what other options have we got? Many thanks, Paul

Thank you! Quick question though - do these have 26mm or 28mm axles?

It appears that the GSWR introduced some unusually large goods vans, which survived into the 1960s and some into the 1970s. I've seen one reference where these are referred to as 'Big Boy' vans which seems appropriate even if they aren't Union Pacific Mallet locos - they are bigger than the rolling stock around them. I've gathered some photos but would welcome more information especially a drawing or a list of numbers. To illustrate the type of van I'm talking about, here's one pictured later in its life, image posted by Ernie on Flickr: They were significantly taller than the H vans and most other vans. I think they were also a bit longer, but this was exaggerated by the relatively short wheelbase and small W-irons and journals which gave them an 'elephant-on-a-skateboard' look! This HMRS photo of van 1150 dated 1907 shows an early variant with wooden body ribs; most of them had metal structural members. As far as I can tell they all had metal underframes. https://hmrs.org.uk/-abn530--10t-goods-van-gswr-1150--op--1907-r3l--open-spoke-wheels-photo-no--s-801.html This IRRS photo dated 1969 shows number 924, presumably in the same number series as 1150 above. However, 924 is the more common type with metal body framing and planked sides and ends. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511622719 The other photos I've found all seem to be in the 15000 series. Most have horizontally planked sides and ends, with vertically planked doors. Here's 15236 in 1975: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511125251 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570652283 15175 towering over an older 'convertible' van in 1957: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252992446 15279 in 1963: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257012444 15506 and 15515 in 1968: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570455881 A couple of partial views from Ernie including 15458: The first photo I posted showed a van re-clad with ply, but retaining planked doors. There's a similar one here, partly hiding but nevertheless obvious owing to its height: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507606107 Has anyone got more info on these: drawings, dimensions, more photos, a model you have built? Cheers, Mol

Here's the one I was thinking of: yellow frame, white tank, rather worn Bell logo and lettering. It appears to be a leased tank with an SCXU code: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509438550 The one I posted way upthread is the only true Bell tank I've seen, in full Bell livery, and is a rather older type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419646114

The HMRS archive has some nice views of the Tar Bitumen tanks built by Charles Roberts, when new. Here's 23855 when new in 1954: [AAT037] 15T tank CIE 23855, 5' 3"gauge loaded on Flatrol 168964, ex-Works. For Tar / Bitumen traffic. 25002 in 1962: [AAU529] 14T tar bitumen tank CIE 25002 on Flatrol [OP] Chas Roberts yard 25018, also in 1962, view of the other side: [AAU532] 14T tar bitumen tank CIE 25018 on Flatrol [OP] Chas Roberts yard

The HMRS collection has a clear view of one of the first batch of wagons retaining its wheel handbrake into the mid 1980s: [ADP157] CIE 25050 cement wagon

HMRS has a photo of the Silver Princess in use in Ireland: [ACX510] Silver Princess coach The date is given as 1 September 1948 and the location as Limerick.

Also from Jonathan Allen in 1971, here's B131 without handrails along the bonnet, but with the handrails in black but a bit of the original yellow showing through: By this time I think most of the class had the full handrails along the side, but they were painted black.