Mol_PMB

This is one of the buses on the shuttle to the Greatest Gathering in Derby today Made me think of this thread!

Super - thank you

My childhood memories of Dublin in the late 80s early 90s are that it was a rough and scary place, if you wanted to park a car you had to pay protection money to one or several gangs if you wanted it to still be there when you returned! Despite the craters in the street I felt safer in Belfast because the heavy police/army presence kept the gangs under control. That’s just my impression as a teenage tourist, it may well be inaccurate or an over-simplification.

As someone who commutes regularly by rail through Slaithwaite (pronounced Slawi' (with near-silent t at the end) in true Yorkshire economical style) I think there are quite a few railway operators who would benefit from some training on pronunciation!

I agree, I enjoy scratchbuilding, kitbuilding/bashing, and modifying RTR. While I can appreciate the satisfaction of buying a nice model RTR, I don't really feel it's mine until I've made it my own by modifying/detailing/repainting/weathering it in some way. Of course that destroys the nominal value and one could claim that I ruin everything I buy! But I don't buy it to show it off, or to sell it again, I buy it to entertain myself while I make something unique. I also really enjoy researching the prototype, and making models of things that other people don't have and probably never will have if they wait for an RTR version.

https://www.accurascale.com/pages/projects Showing delivery later this year on the AS website, though this may not be 100% up to date - some projects such as the Park Royals seem to be delayed but I know thye use various different factories so delays in one project don't necessarily impact another project. I will be in Derby tomorrow and will try to get near the AS/IRM stand to ask about progress. And hopefully not leave too much drool on the display cases

On close inspection, this photo from Ernie shows either 1906 or 1907, formed in the middle of a railcar set. Also a nice example of 'tail traffic'. There's almost a pun to be found there. On the wider topic of carriages through-wired as railcar trailers, I think I have found two different clerestory coaches, both catering cars: 343 (8-wheel) and 353 (12-wheel). I am preparing an illustrated diatribe on CIE railcar trailers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2024/03/28/generative-ai-and-the-risk-of-inbreeding/

Here is the same car, 2633, with the exhaust pipe at the front. This photo shows it in green livery, probably light green as it has the large numerals on the front. So it must have carried this modification for some years at least: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53445962742

Quoting selectively from BSGSV's post linked above: I'm just looking at a photo in IRRS Journal No. 184 (June 2014) page 66. It is dated 5th September 1954, and shows a '6+2' AEC railcar formation, with the trailers comprising two corridor thirds (1351-55 series), a GSR corridor third (1300 series) and a CIE buffet car (2405-18 series). The buffet is clearly a much lighter colour than the rest of the train. I think this photo pre-dates the accepted introduction of the 'standard' bright green and supports the statement quoted above. However, I'm not sure I entirely agree with all Mr. Kennedy's other statements. Shades of green are a minefield. I tend to agree with JHB and Mr. Kennedy that there was a standard dark green in the 1945-1952 period, and a standard bright green in the 1958-1961 period. But the mid-1950s period seems more complex. So your 1950s train could realistically feature a range of green shades.

Tres bono!

Your version has definitely been fiddled with by AI. Here is a view from a similar angle at a similar date, but not the same photo: One of the things that AI often gets wrong is the track. Look at your photo and there are some odd kinks and gauge variations. Also there is a stray piece of rail (looking almost like a switch blade) in the track second from left. In reality there was a trap point blade near here (see Ernie's photo above) but it faced the opposite direction and of course it had some rodding to work it. AI isn't afraid to make things up and claim it to be true. And then to lie to cover its tracks. It will become an increasing hazard to historians, as the internet fills up with lies and nonsense.

A couple of snippets about the two driving trailers 1906 and 1907, fro 'The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway' volume 3 (Creedon). On page 70, 'On March 29th [1957], a C.I.E. control trailer arrived by the City Railway at Albert Quay for re-painting at Rocksavage. These units had been used for some time coupled to a single railcar on the Westport section of the "Cu na Mara" express.' On page 80, 'Around mid-August [1957], another control trailer entered Rocksavage Carriage Works for re-painting.' This photo taken at Cork in July 1957 shows one of the pair around this time: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253223013/

Most of the railcars carried quite a thick white band, but it does seem to have been quite pronounced on some of the powered intermediates. On the early repaints in black and tan, as well as having a thick white band, the tan band was shallower, and the vehicle number at waist height was on the black portion. Later the tan band was extended upwards a few inches. Here's an early 1960s photo showing 2603 and an unidentified powered intermediate (ex Wedgehead), newly repainted in this scheme: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510559317 There's another powered intermediate in the same scheme on the edge of these two photos of green K801: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255477235 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507224990 Normal AEC cars 2628 and 2630 also carried this 'shallow tan' scheme; there may have been a few more like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419865485 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419697329 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255514105 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447301370 The last of those shows 2630 with a shallow tan band, followed by a green powered intermediate (ex Wedgehead), and then another powered intermediate (ex Wedgehead) with a deep tan band and a much thinner white band. Some carriages carried the early version of the black and tan scheme too, like corridor standard 1340 here. Some of this batch were wired for working as railcar trailers, though I can't confirm if this one was: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449371366 I'll finish with one of Ernie's pictures of 2603 to illustrate the early version of the black and tan for those who don't have access to the IRRS archive. Tan about 4" shallower than normal, with the running numbers above it on the black (visible just behind the cab door handrail):

Over on RMweb: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/155786-more-model-ideas/?do=findComment&comment=5903584

Knuckle coupler, no side buffers. Proportions all wrong. AI nonsense.

While we're on annual reports, the 1962 report includes a fairly well-known photo showing the first train in the new black and tan livery: On close inspection, 3 of the 'carriages' behind A6 are actually powered intermediate railcars, newly converted from the Wedgeheads. The other bogie coach is state saloon 351. It seems they scraped together anything in the new livery to pose for the photographer - it's certainly an unusual train formation! The first few powered intermediate conversions were definitely outshopped in green (illustrations linked upthread) but it looks like the last few came out in black and tan.

A couple of extracts from the CIE annual reports which mention these six railcars. This is from the 1957 report: And this is from the 1958 report:

At least 184 is still with us. 1907 was smashed to smithereens in 1974.

Back to 1907, there are several IRRS photos of this with RPSI 184 in 1970, including these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570456911 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569599852 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570654018 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309423 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309418 What these show is that 1907 had been converted to a driving trailer in the same way as 1906 (cab, headlights, commonwealth bogies etc), but by 1970 it had lost its headlights and therefore was no longer functional as a driving trailer. Other internal control equipment may have been stripped out too, but we can't see that in the photos. That would tally with the entry in the coaching stock register for 1969 which shows only 1906 (not 1907) wired for use with the diesel railcars.

The normal full-size windows have four sections at the top - the top corners are fixed, while the middle two are inset slightly and can slide behind the corner ones. That’s pretty standard. The narrower windows you’re asking about just have two sections at the top. The right-hand one is fixed, and the left-hand one is slightly inset and can slide behind the right-hand one. The narrower windows (but not as narrow as a toilet window) are unusual though - used here to suit the forward-facing rows of first class seats. Normal AEC railcars had the same basic arrangement but a different window style.

Excellent - nice to see some more pics. I've been trawling through the IRRS archive again and haven't yet found any more good photos of the wedgeheads, though there are a few in the distance at the far end of a train. I've found plenty more of them in later life as powered intermediates. Although the photo references a few posts upthread show some in green as PIs, I'm beginning to think that only the first 2 or 3 came out in green and the others were painted in black and tan after conversion. I'll probably add a couple more posts here once I've finished my photo trawl. With Heljan GWR railcars at almost half price at Rails, I did have a look to see if they would be good conversion fodder. They're not. Although the bogie pivot spacing matches, the Irish cars had 10' wheelbase bogies whereas the GWR cars had 7' (early ones) or 8'6" (later ones). The overall lengths are different too, and there's no commonality of body style or dimensions even below the solebar.

The elevated signalbox is the outstanding feature in my view. Will that be swept away too? I suppose it will be in an isolated location once the new station opens.

If it would be easier for you to just photograph each page on your phone, I would be happy to transcribe the data into a spreadsheet / tabular format and post that on the forum for others to use. That would make it easier to search and filter the entries too.

Thanks again! I would be very interested to see the rest of that document. It's a couple of years later than the listing in Pender & Richards but crucially it's more complete as it includes pre-CIE stock, and more detailed regarding the fittings. A decade earlier than the first Doyle&Hirsch book in 1979, by which time there was very little pre-CIE stock left. Would there be any chance of you sharing the other pages on the forum?