Mol_PMB

This little booklet was published in 1962. It comprises 48 pages including 16 photos. Most of the content is a list of the locations of industrial railways and the locos that they used. There are over 100 locations, I haven't counted them all! Some more snippets and photos can be found online here: INDUSTRIAL LOCOMOTIVES OVERSEAS (3) Ireland Regarding the British Aluminium Co in Larne, as shown in Ernie's recently uploaded photos, the listing shows that they had 4 3' gauge locos - the 3 Pecketts and a Hibberd diesel: 1 0-4-0T Peckett 1026 / 1904 2 0-4-0T Peckett 1097 / 1906 3 0-4-0T Peckett 1357 / 1914 12/2 4wD Hibberd 2087 (acquired secondhand from Kinlochleven in 1953) Over time I'll try to pick out some photos and info on some other lines.

This is a very interesting topic worthy of further discussion. So we don't trample all over Ernie's photo thread I've created a fresh topic here:

Over on Ernie's photo thread there has been a brief discussion on Irish industrial railways. I've created this thread to continue a more general discussion on the topic rather than trample all over Ernie's thread. Perhaps some of the better-known examples were: Bord na Mona - many extensive networks, mostly 3' gauge but some 2' gauge Guinness Brewery - an interesting 1'10" gauge system mostly within the confines of the Dublin brewery British Aluminium Co Larne - a 3' gauge internal system There were also several ports and harbours with their own railway systems, often connected to the main lines. But that's only scratching the surface and there were many, many more lesser-known industrial and contractors' lines in Ireland. For those who are interested, let's collate some info, photos and references here.

Wasn't the first railway in Ulster a narrow-gauge industrial line? That's a snippet from memory, hope I'm not wildly wrong. Guinness as well of course, and later the vast BnM networks which grew up around the time that the common carriers were closing. Lesser-known were the lines associated with major construction schemes and sometimes remaining in use later, such as Ardnacrusha PS and Marconi Clifden. I'm sure there were many more.

I once built a 121 class and Mk3 driving trailer out of Lego, using a scale of 1 block to the foot. The carriage was about 2 feet long and needed a huge quantity of orange bricks!

I appreciate the issues with rail profile and hand-building pointwork - the parts available are mostly BH and it's easier to align and build in BH rail because the gauge point on the head is the widest point of the rail, and it's easier to profile switch blades, stock rails and crossing noses. Building 21mm gauge pointwork in FB rail is something I've been putting off but I need to do it sometime! Further to John's comprehensive reply, I'd agree that many secondary lines and sidings in Ireland were laid in lightweight flat-bottom rail spiked direct to sleepers, and remained like that for their entire life. The example I've been studying is Fenit which seems to have retained its original trackform for the entire life of the branch, though the sleepers were no doubt replaced. This photo is 1960s but the track was unchanged when I visited in the 1990s: Winding the clock back to around 1900, it is interesting to note that the track is uniformly gravelled over the sleepers, and only the top half of the rail is visible. I think this is the same light FB rail, but it's hard to be sure in these photos. But if this style of ballasting was done on the model, it would also be hard to tell what the rail section was. You could get away with BH if the rail foot and fastenings were hidden. For plain track, code 75 rail and 3D printed bases are ideal for representing this lightweight FB track, as discussed in this thread:

Grey and yellow B135, black and tan carriages, silver 4w TPO: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446885371/ I still haven't found a picture of a CIE-built TPO in green, other than in preservation. Undoubtedly some of the older TPOs carried green.

Here's another one of those old bogie flat wagons, also ex-MGWR I think, seen in 1971 but there's a similar one in the 1980s photo of the weedkiller train. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570896890/in/album-72177720315253667/ Note that the number quoted in the caption, 2618M, is the number of the ancient goods van adjacent, not the bogie flat. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570657363/in/album-72177720315253667 Another view of the big 12-wheeler, was this the GSR transformer truck or something else? (not the turf burner chassis, not the Bretland tracklayer chassis) https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570895655 And another view of the bogie well wagon, in revenue service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570769984 I think most of the older ballast hoppers disappeared in the 1970s replaced by the CIE vac-braked ones introduced that decade - here's a GNR example and its matching plough van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569593052 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450071

This one is still in use as a TPO in 1968: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446741 Whereas this one in 1971 seems to have been 'borrowed' for other purposes: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644023 I think the latter was a marketing initiative; I vaguely recall seeing some IRRS footage of it at Youghal.

I think the answer is the MGWR bogie rail wagons 3401M to 3407M, which were introduced in the early 1920s and appear to have survived into the early 1980s. The HMRS holds drawings of these: https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings.html?company_cat=20496&product_list_limit=36 3405M was converted for use in the weedkilling train. How long did it last in that role? It was probably the last one of the batch in use into the early 1980s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53448459987/ Seen here in 1984 after being replaced but before being scrapped: The slight twist is that although this was definitely 3405M, it isn't carrying its suffix in the photos. I'm not sure of the history of the other bogie flat in these photos, it also looks old though quite different. There were some older and later survivors in the engineers' fleet but they were ex-GSWR so did not have a suffix. There were also some late-surviving old wagons in the A-suffixed series for non-revenue wagons including lowmacs (which had their own thread a few months ago), bogie well wagons and the 12-wheel heavy-duty wagon (which, despite appearances, was not the remains of the turf burner). https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511515508 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508783799 So, in response to @jhb171achill's quiz question, are there any advances on 3405M into the early 1980s?

Having had a look at my references, in 1967 these are still listed in the carriage list, but by 1979 they had gone. The three extra bogie TPOs 2979-2981 were introduced in 1968 (modified from older passenger coaches). I think they were intended to replace the 4-wheelers, so around 1968 would probably be the date they were withdrawn from normal service and some transferred to engineers' use. Here's a photo from Ernie showing some details of a silver one at Mullingar in 1959. Also from Ernie, one at Sligo in a train of mostly silver liveried vehicles, apart from the loco which rather spoils the space-age image! Both these photos show the configuration of the water pipes for the toilet, not often so obvious. Hope that helps, I look forward to seeing progress on the real thing. I'm planning to visit Downpatrick in August.

Let's hope for at least a railtour - I need to colour that bit in! When I was last in Limerick a few weeks ago, the Foynes line still wasn't connected at Limerick Check - there was a gap in the track and a fence across it.

With regard to intermodal at Foynes, the Irish Rail Freight Plan is at odds with the Shannon Foynes Port Co. (SFPC) strategy (see link below and related thread). SFPC see Foynes as a bulk commodities port and their strategy to 2041 does not include intermodal provision. https://sfpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SFPC-MASTERPLAN-Final.pdf

Thanks! If you like, I can send you some details of how to order a set of etches to build one. Let me know if you would like me to PM you. The instructions are up-thread here: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17976-making-an-‘e’-–-the-maybach-diesel-model-assembly-thread/page/6/#findComment-260726 Cheers, Mol

This is a good question! I'll have a look at my notes later; there may be a clue in the WTT wagon number listings. The well-known pre-GSR survivors (things like the plough van and the presidential coach) were former GSWR vehicles so they didn't have a suffix. You've probably right that it was one of the former MGWR bogie flats used for PW duties. Possibly some ballast wagons of various types? Unfitted vehicles lasted longer in PW usage. Very interesting info, many thanks John. The 15147-16812 series included a variety of designs of various dimensions and forms of construction. I think there were at least 4 types in blocks within that number series and I'm presently trying to make sense of these. The info and reference for the 1938-1940 construction are therefore very helpful.

So here’s a photo reproduced in Donal Murray’s ‘Great Southern Railways’ showing such a vehicle. The photo is undated. It’s not an LMA van (no corrugated ends) nor an H van (no triangulated underframe) so is probably a mid-1940s build as referred to in the quote above. The absence of diagonal strapping is notable, and I need to investigate this some more. I think the photo has been flipped horizontally when printed in the book, because the brake lever seems to point the wrong way.

Most of us lose out when rules and finances are in turmoil. But those with a lot of money and an appetite for risk (or some insider info) can make millions in times of turmoil. Someone’s winning, somewhere…

Agreed, for the heating vans the later 1959/60 batch were built in green as far as I can tell, so there were a reasonable number of green 'tin vans'. A handful of the earlier 1955/6 batch of heating vans were repainted in green, but only a small minority. The rarities (based on the photos I've reviewed) were luggage 'tin vans' in green. There was certainly one, and there are a disproportionate number of photos of it as it was used on an IRRS railtour. But I don't think there were many. And as far as I can tell, none of the CIE-built TPO's carried green until the preservation era, when at least two of them did! As always, I'd love to be proved wrong by photographic evidence if anyone can provide it!

Further to my previous post, a few more images of Turf wagons for those who might be interested. All these from Robin N Clements who was clearly interested in the subject! The interior view will be important for modelling purposes. RNC_CMDR_32RA_Maynooth_06_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_GSWR_8829_1915A_Kildare_03_April_1949 | [Photographer: R… | Flickr RNC_GSWR_956_Leixlip_27_March_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_CMDR_11RA_Leixlip_27_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N C… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_13RA_Leixlip_27_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N C… | Flickr

Accurascale's entry to the NG7 market?

Hmm Custardy or should it be Custody? Nice work as always!

Back in the day I attempted two Q kits, for the A and C class. They were hard work and I was never happy with them, though they did run and look more like the prototype than a Lima class 33! Keep up the good work with the MTK heavy metal. I now wish I hadn't binned my MTK Irish coach kits; I think they would have been salvageable with my present skills even if I made a mess of them 25 years ago.

Whilst the coming of steam locomotives, and later electric traction, were expected to oust the horse, I find it fascinating that CIE's rail division was using horses in Dublin as late as 1968, so the humble Dobbin survived later than steam traction, and later than electric traction, working for CIE in Dublin. The Drumm trains, the Dublin city trams and the GNR trams had all gone well before that. Later, of course, DART and LUAS would come. And who knows, maybe one day some more knitting for the main lines. A similar scenario occurred in 1979 for the Pope's visit. It's amazing to read of the special arrangements made for that by CIE, which was at the time in the midst of a funding crisis and serious industrial relations problems. But for the crucial few days, everyone pulled together and somehow it all worked! Please supply us some more of these wonderful notes from the past!

Interesting that there were two stages to their rebuild. There are some photos of them in the 1947/8 condition in the IRRS archives, along with some open wagons converted with 'greedy boards' to carry a larger volume of turf. For example: RNC_DSER_53D_Inchicore_21_Aug_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_CMDR_14RA_Inchicore_21_Aug_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr RNC_GSR_10627_Inchicore_26_Apr_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_32RA_Clonsilla_01_Aug_1948 (2) | [Photographer: Rob… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_32RA_Clonsilla_01_Aug_1948 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr I recall reading somewhere that CIE tried Irish Tweed, as an attempt to support home industry, but that it wore badly compared to normal carriage upholstery materials. Not sure if this was that occasion. It had several minor modifications, and was eventually purchased by BR and painted in normal carriage livery, which rather ruined the effect. Some photos on Flickr by Robert Carroll:

This has got @Darius43 written all over it. A grotty 1980s kit for an imaginary diesel loco. https://ebay.us/m/o2DlTT