Mol_PMB

If you are an IRRS member and have a flickr account you can gain access by following this process: https://irrs.ie/photographic-archive/ If you have already done that and still can't see them, then I don't know what's wrong but would suggest you might contact Ciaran.

The earliest lav compo photo I've found on Flickr shows number 527 (diagram 69) in GSR livery in the 1940s. The main subject of the photo is an MGWR coach but we have a nice clear view of about half of no.527. On the part we can see, it has both door and roof vents. The lavatory compartment is cropped off the photo. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509310220 (you'll need to be an IRRS member to see the IRRS images) This photo shows no.933, diagram 73 which as John rightly reminds me is likely to be an ex-WLWR vehicle. Nevertheless it is remarkably similar in style and appearance to the GSWR diagram 69. The class designations on the doors indicate that these vehicles (originally tri-composite) had their second class compartment downgraded to third, leaving just the one first class and 3 thirds. It has a full complement of roof and door vents and a lavatory water tank on the roof. However, it has lost some of the beading on the side. Looking closely it is apparent that the headstocks are steel channel rather than timber. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509172400 This photo dated 1955 shows another of the diagram 73 coaches, in the CIE plain green livery with class designations on the first class compartment only. It does not have a lavatory water tank on the roof. It does have roof vents and most of the vents on the doors survive. The beading has been simplified. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508685953 Next I'll look at 3 photos of 905, diagram 66 and again ex-WLWR. The first is an excellet portrait of the vehicle in 1947, newly-painted in CIE dark green with elaborate lining. On the roof it has a full complement of vents, but there are no vents on the sides at all. The sides have been repanelled with very little beading. The lavatory water tank is visible on the roof. As with 933 it has steel channel headstocks. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508749006 Next up this photo from Ernie shows 905, not as the main subject but off to the right. By 1954 it had been repainted in plain green with class designations on the first class compartments only. Physically it's in the same condition as the previous photo, but we're looking at the opposite side and end. 905 was the last survivor of the GSWR (ex-WLWR) lav compos and this photo dated 1961 shows it in a rake of 3 ancient coaches at Albert Quay. It appears to have received a line along the waist, but may have been declassified by this time. Physically it's in the same condition as the previous two photos. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511721675

So far I have found just 15 photos of these GSWR lavatory composites. They include all 3 diagrams and cover a range of dates. However, in most cases they are not the main subject of the photo, being partial or distant views. It's not always possible to identify which diagram the coaches belong to. The photos show several modifications to these carriages over the years, including lighting, ventilation, water tanks and panelling. I'll start with some photos from books. This image shows diagram 69 no.540 in GSWR days, perhaps when it was new in the 1880s. The photo is reproduced in 'The Great Southern & Western Railway' - Murray / McNeill and in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' - Coakham and credited to IRRS. It appears to have oil lamps, but no ventilators on the roof. The lavatory water tank is not visible on the roof, and this may have been a later modification. Moving forward to 1924, this image is reproduced in 'The Railways of the Republic of Ireland 1925-1975' - Baker and credited to Rex Murphy. It shows a Cobh-Cork train and the third coach is a lav compo, probably diagram 69. It has vents on the roof and a lavatory water tank, and retains a full complement of 5 vents above the doors and toilet window. Moving into GSR days, this 1931 photo is reproduced in 'Irish Standard Gauge Railways' - Middlemass and credited to L&GRP; unfortunately it is split over two pages. It is probably diagram 69. It has vents on the roof over each compartment, but the vents in the top of the doors have been removed only the vent over the toilet window remains: This photo dated 1938 appears in 'Irish Railways in the Heyday of Steam' - Casserley. Like the image above, there is only one vent on the sides, and there appear to be 3 vents on the roof. Two photos dated 1949 show one of these coaches on the Valentia Harbour branch. This one is from 'Steaming in Three Centuries' - Pryce / McAllister, and shows a carriage in the 1940s CIE dark green livery with elaborate lining. It has a full complement of vents on the roof and the doors, as well as a lavatory water tank clearly visible: The other photo is here, with the nearer vehicle being a GSWR lav compo, with door vents missing. The other coach appears to be an MGWR lav compo. I'll deal with the Flickr photos in another post; they are generally from the CIE era.

The book 'GSWR Carriage Diagrams' (Pender & Richards) shows the GSWR fleet as it was in 1924, including 40 diagrams of 6-wheel coaches. The diagrams are numbered and I'll refer to these numbers - it is not clear whether they were the numbers used by GSWR or whether thay have been added by Pender & Richards. There were 3 types of lavatory composite that were broadly similar to the SSM kit: diagrams 66, 69 and 73. I'll present these in the order they were built rather than the diagram number order. Diagram 69 seems to be the prototype of the SSM kit, and was the most numerous type of lav compo built from 1882 to 1893. It had a 2nd class compartment at each end, plus two first class compartments connected to the lavatories in the middle. As you can see from the listing on the diagram below, no.545 was withdrawn in 1960, while 542, 546, 928 and 929 survived until 1958. Diagram 73 had a similar layout and appearance, but was a tri-composite type built in 1895. It had a 3rd class compartment at each end, plus one first and one second class compartment connected to the lavatories in the middle. Diagram 73 had ends which curve in at the bottom, whereas diagram 69 (and the SSM kit) had flat ends. There were only ever 3 of these, and no.931 of this type survived until 1958. Diagram 66 was the final type built in 1987, and there were only two of them. In this design, both the first class compartments were at one end, and both the seconds at the other end. The two inner compartments (one of each class) connected to the lavatories in the middle. One of the first class compartments was a coupe (half-compartment) with the seats facing the end of the coach. Diagram 66 also had ends which curve in at the bottom. The GSWR diagram book states that coach 905 of this type was withdrawn in 1960, but it does appear in the CIE 1961 carriage register - the last surviving GSWR lavatory composite. Given that the kit represents diagram 69, I should be focusing on that for my model. However, the other two similar diagrams also had late survivors and it's useful to include those in the review.

Earlier this year I acquired secondhand a couple of the SSM kits for GSWR 6-wheel coaches. They are the lavatory composite and the 6-compartment third. I've been trying to decide what to do with them! My modelling period is quite broad but generally within the range 1960 to 1987, which makes GSWR 6-wheelers quite hard to justify. The 1961 CIE carriage register lists 39 6-wheelers in traffic of which only 3 were of GSWR origin - most were MGWR. However, if I wind the clock back a couple of years there are more options. The Quartertown Mill layout I'm building at the moment is a freight branch, but did once see an IRRS railtour. To provide some operational variety I like the idea of a short railtour/excursion train. 6-wheel coaches would suit the dimensions of the layout better than bogie vehicles, and the Cork area was one of the last strongholds of 6-wheel stock in the early 1960s, so I think I could justify one or two. So I have been trying to find photos and information on the late-surviving GSWR 6-wheelers, particularly those which match the SSM kits. In this thread I'll summarise my findings on the lavatory composites.

I've had another quick scan through the Broadstone and Inchicore images on Flickr and can offer the following photos of the carriage portion(s?): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53499188535/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253429865/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508937548/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505926887/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508519491/ And I got wrong-footed by one of these again! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509066394/

This is the carriage body at Inchicore. https://flic.kr/p/2pvxjSk I think there are several photos of this in the IRRS archive, by different gricers. Also this? https://flic.kr/p/2pw8RWP

Oh, I wish you had asked a week ago. I've just completed another trawl through tens of thousands of photos on Flickr and in hundreds of books, and I have definitely seen some photos of these on my way through. But I wasn't looking for them, so didn't record the links/reference. This is the only one I could find again quickly: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53813564175 I'm pretty sure there are lots of photos of a short carriage portion surviving at Inchicore. But it's easy to get confused with these pesky beasts: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53813564520

Back to the bitumen tank, but looking at the body this time. I'm beginning to wonder if there will be much left of this Bachmann tank wagon by the time I've finished with it! The bitumen tanks were lagged, so the domed end wasn't visible but instead the end of the lagging was flat. Well, almost. The upper half was vertical and the lower half angled in slightly. I used the laser-cutter to make some rings of 1.5mm thick plasticard which I stuck to the ends. Once set hard, I sanded down the lower half at an angle. I also made some discs of 1mm plasticard, with a half-engraved line across the diameter, to provide fold line. The ends are now stuck on. I've also removed the walkways and ladders and filled the associated holes. The next job is to fill the gaps around the end laminations, and leave them to set overnight before sanding smooth. You can just about see the taper on the lower ends here: Like this:

One of the good things about this hobby is that it can be so varied. When I don't fancy working on something tiny and precise, I can just do some scenery instead. This morning I have made a simple retaining wall: I used some old Wills sheeting that I've had in stock for decades. With a bit of carving the stones at the joint, and some dabs of Matte Medium, I'm hoping the join won't be obvious once it's painted and weathered.

It's certainly possible. But is it worth the time and effort, and would homemade ones be a genuine improvement on what's there already? I've got a set of the right buffers in front of me, and I could just fit them. The downside would be that I then wouldn't have anything to use as a pattern if I (or others) wanted some more in future. Will I ever regauge the other two 141/181s I have in the stash? Quite possibly not. While some other forum members have kindly offered to buy a few sets, there's a risk that I couldn't produce them for a sensible price, and then there's the time and effort involved in managing the whole exercise. The best option might be just to forget the whole idea of making more. There's also a risk that this loco will sit unfinished forever waiting for buffers, which would be a shame after all the work I've put into it so far. Or if it enters traffic with its existing buffers, they'll never get replaced. Probably I need to revisit this when I'm feeling a bit more positive.

The economics would make more sense if more (different) items were cast in the same mould. So I’m thinking of other similar-sized parts that I might need. Detail parts for the proposed MGWR 6-wheel coach (buffers, roof details) are an option. Also some G class detail castings, to go with a Worsley G611 etch, or with a G601 etch I might do myself. Bonnet-top vents, axleboxes/springs etc. Possibly a few wagon buffers.

Merry Christmas Leslie! I’m not a cat lover - sell me some more wagons!

One down, one to go... I remember now why I model other prototypes in O gauge...

A lovely Christmas present for us - thank you!

If I build a second bitumen tanker, it's going to have Irish brakes! This is an unfeasibly large number of bits to solder together for such a small bit of detail - there are 4 layers of etch and lots of tiny bits of wire - and I had to drill out all those holes! Ah well, it keeps me out of the pub...

Very nice indeed!

Hold on, are you a cat?

Maybe they were prompted by a loco named after a sauce? If the layout is to be set in Dublin, I think that poster in the background may need replacing, nice though it is!

Welcome! I'm a few months ahead of you with building a 2-point layout as a first step in 21mm gauge, so it's great to see someone else following the same path. Here's my journey so far: I look forward to seeing your progress. Feel free to ask if you have any questions on regauging stock etc. Have you chosen which wheel/rail standards you're using? Some people use P4-based dimensions but others (myself included) use EM flangeways and wheel profiles. As for silver locos, this is my attempt: Cheers, Mol

Progress on several fronts today. 156's front valances have been rubbed down and had a coat of paint which has shown up the imperfections! However, I think once the couplings and hoses are fitted and a bit of weathering applied, this will be good enough: I have also painted the hoses ready to fit. The approved colours for these seem to have changed over the years, but based on early 1970s photos the multi-working hoses had orange fittings, while the (single) air brake hose had yellow fittings which would normally indicate a main res pipe (train pipe would be red). I guess this was before the locos were fitted for working air brake trains? The postie delighted me this morning with a very prompt delivery from Modelu, which has enabled me to paint up the drivers for 156. In the absence of working DCC humans, I'm going to put one in each end. Hopefully I've got the dress code about right for the 1970s. The eagle-eyed will spot that Modelu have also supplied some residents for my trees. They're probably a bit big for red ones - I should have got them in TT scale - but I understand that red squirrels are appropriate for county Cork. I have also bought some residents for the mill (pigeons and rats) but those are staying the box until the buildings have progressed a bit further. Meanwhile, on the layout I have done the messy bit of landscaping the two areas that have a 'natural' surface. I use a mix of plaster powder, brown and black poster paint, water and PVA glue to create a chocolatey gunge, and then apply that with strips of newspaper (in several layers) to give some gentle contours. The dowels and bits of wire are there to maintain the holes for planting the trees - they are greased with vaseline so hopefully they'll come out again once the gunge has set. This evening I may recommence battle with the bitumen tank chassis. Winding the clock back to my circa-1960 early period, I have also been doing some research on 6-wheel coaches and I think I've found a suitable prototype for my kit of a GSWR lavatory composite. I'd better get the current projects finished before opening that box. Merry Christmas to all!

I like that! I'm very tempted to get one. I'm currently drinking a brew from my old ITG mug, featuring A3R now also at DCDR. My Irish mug has a 'twin' acquired during a work trip to Perth:

Indeed. That doesn't make the size or spacing correct. I have seen some comments online about the buffers, and I believe the spacing was corrected for the 121s. However, it is a good indication that no-one else thinks it's worth the effort to correct them. So I think I'm probably ploughing a lonely furrow here, and it's unlikely that it will make financial sense to spend a lot of money replicating some buffers that no-one else wants.

Stunning! What beautiful locos and rolling stock.

I did some more work on 156 this morning, including rebuilding the front valances with the coupler pocket rigidly mounted, reinforced from behind and with filler in the joints. I had to set that aside to set fully, so made a start on the next project. I took a look at A42 but decided to leave that for now, and instead make a start on the bitumen tanker. Rumney Models make a very nice etched kit to replace the chassis on the Bachmann anchor-mount tank, intended for EM/P4 modellers. I bought one of those and have started to assemble it. It is beautifully engineered and etched and goes together well, but there are a lot of small fiddly bits! To add to the complexity, of course I have had to widen it by 2mm. I started assembly of the frame and then made some incisions: Then I continued assembly, adding some plates and strips to give the correct width and reinforce the joints. This is as far as I've got so far: I thought my soldering was reasonably neat until I saw these photos blown up on the screen to much bigger than life size! Anyway, it's now having an ultrasonic bath and I'll do some more on it tomorrow. I'm still only on page 12 of the instructions (of 28 pages) so there's a way to go yet! Eventually it will look a bit like this one, but more filthy: