Mol_PMB

Over on RMweb, a recent post suggests that someone has succeeded in acquiring some former Worsley etch tools (not Irish ones). https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/183040-blacksmith-models-the-david-geen-collection-worsley-works/page/4/#findComment-6231094 Has there been any progress on the Irish items? I imagine that it's still mired in confusion and may never be unravelled.

Excellent news. Just a few weeks to go until the diesel gala...

I think this one has been re-upholstered in blue, though the original grey panelling remains. Note the horizontal stripes on the window pillars which are visible in this much older photo: Holdings: New Craven coach, interior, Inchicore, Co. Dublin. :: Library Catalog The 1980s photo above also has white table tops, whereas this 1965 image has the black tables described in the IRRS Journal (but no stripes on the pillars): Kennelly Archive | The All-Ireland Senior Football Semi-Final The Cravens were built in several batches so there may have been more than two variants originally.

To the Manx, the IoM is THE island. Everywhere else is 'Across'. From the summit of Snaefell one can look down on all the surrounding countries. Getting back on topic here, I'm planning to get some of Enda's cattle wagons in October. And here's a nice pic from Brian Flannigan:

It would still have been grey! Edit: Here's a 1980s photo from Neil Smith on Flickr which shows the pale grey interior of the Inchicore-built coaches, but this one has been re-upholstered and new tabletops fitted: Part of my untrustworthy memory says that one of the RPSI coaches has the blue check panelling. But that recollection may have been filtered through the bottom of several glasses of stout

Many of us are familiar with the later Cravens interior colour schemes, but they had been refurbished and no longer had the original colours of fabric. I think the panelling colours had also been changed. This description of the interior colours when new comes from an IRRS article, 'Modern CIE coaching stock' by D Kennedy, published in IRRS Journal 37, June 1965: I'm backdating a Murphy Cravens to represent one of the first 10 in original condition. The moulded dark blue seats can remain unchanged, and the tables need to be painted duck-egg blue. I would like to represent the blue-checked panels in the saloon if possible. I have a vague recollection of the end partition walls of the saloons being in a blue check pattern on some Cravens, but all my interior photos show the later scheme with wood-effect laminate. Has anyone got a photo showing the blue checked panelling on the interior of a Cravens coach? Is it too much to hope that one of the preserved vehicles still has this scheme? Many thanks, Mol P.S. I think these photos show the original scheme in the Inchicore-built Cravens coaches, dark grey seats, light grey panelling and black tables: Kennelly Archive | The All-Ireland Senior Football Semi-Final Holdings: New Craven coach, interior, Inchicore, Co. Dublin. :: Library Catalog

My plan is to run* them with a 4w tin van for heating, hence the need for batteries. I’ll keep the others in early 1980s condition and eventually they can have a Dutch or BR van, or a BSGSV. In both cases they can be marshalled with Park Royals of the period. *When I say ‘run’, I really mean ‘pose in the display case’ because my half-finished 21mm gauge layout is a freight line that never saw a Cravens coach! But one day I have ambitions for something a bit bigger.

Excellent - that’s very helpful, thanks. I agree they were prioritised for TL conversion in the early 1970s. I have 4 of the BnT Cravens, all secondhand and none pristine, so since they need a bit of fettling anyway I thought I’d do a 1960s version. 1515 (which I have two of) is the victim and will become 1508. I might decide to do the same with 1149, which needs a replacement interior too.

Excellent - thank you! I’ve been searching again myself and also found this one showing the battery boxes on the ‘other’ side: https://flic.kr/p/2pxWHhK I’ve ordered some cast battery boxes. The rather dusty secondhand model needs dismantling and a good wash, new numbers and class designations. Also regauging, kadee couplings and some passengers. Maybe lighting?

I'm planning to backdate one or two of my Murphy Cravens coaches to mid-1960s condition (pre-TL). I'll need to add battery boxes and a dynamo, as well as removing the 'TL' suffix on the numbers and adding '2' class digits on the doors. I might also need to move the existing electrical boxes on the underframe. I'm trying to establish exactly where the battery boxes and dynamo were fitted. I've found two drawings of Cravens coaches but both are from the 1980s after the battery boxes and dynamo were removed. Clear pictures of Cravens at this time are quite hard to find, and almost all of the good photos I've found show the same side of the coach. Those photos I have found indicate that the battery boxes may not have been exactly in the middle, and may have been offset differently on each side. Can anyone add to this list of photos of Cravens in the 1960s or early 1970s, ideally with a clear picture of the battery boxes on the side where the toilets are at the left-hand end? https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570887020/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251543369/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291186 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506934639 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446756 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508098127 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54778615908 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54250396782/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40489229454 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39422633514 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39393192790 Irish Broad Gauge Carriages (Coakham) p.44 I'd also be interested to know how many of them carried the '2' class digits - certainly up to 1519 but maybe more? They seem to have been removed by the late 1960s.

I found a little more about Kenmare on the IRRS Flickr archive including an early signalling diagram (reminder - you'll need to be an IRRS member to see these): TrackDiagrams_GSWR_Kenmare_04_July_1893 | [Track-Diagrams] T… | Flickr Several 1957 photos by Graham Hoare include a good range of goods yard and loco shed views: GJH_GSWR_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (3) | [Photographer: Graham J … | Flickr GJH_GSWR_130_Kenmare_16_July_1957 | [Photographer: Graham J … | Flickr GJH_GSWR_130_Kenmare_16_July_1957 | [Photographer: Graham J … | Flickr GJH_GSWR_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (2) | [Photographer: Graham J … | Flickr GJH_GSWR_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (4) | [Photographer: Graham J … | Flickr GJH_GSWR_130_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (3) | [Photographer: Graha… | Flickr GJH_GSWR_130_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (2) | [Photographer: Graha… | Flickr GJH_GSWR_130_Kenmare_16_July_1957 (4) | [Photographer: Graha… | Flickr There are also some 1955 shots away from the station itself, by Patrick Flanagan: PJF_GSWR_Kenmare_July_1955 | [Photographer: Patrick J Flanag… | Flickr PJF_GSWR_Kenmare_11_July_1956 | [Photographer: Patrick J Fla… | Flickr From an earlier era, Robin Clements has this shot from 1938 of a mixed train in the goods yard: RNC_GSWR_107_Kenmare_26_June_1938 | [Photographer: Robin N C… | Flickr Not forgetting this 1890s view from Ernie:

All the ingredients of a classic branch line terminus - including the very spacious layout typical of rural areas where land was cheap. It's also notable that the only loop is at the platform, and the running line forms the shunting neck for the goods yard and loco shed. This would have been fine for the usual sparse traffic on the branch but awkward on fair days. In model form it would be a challenge to compress it into a reasonable space without losing the character, and the operational restrictions would make it difficult to handle two trains at once.

You may have seen these already, there are some closer photos of the rotating platform and the ramp to it (which was alongside the loco shed), in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s in the IRRS archive. It seems to have evolved a bit over time: PJF_MGWR_Kingscourt_01_Mar_1955 | [Photographer: Patrick J F… | Flickr GRM_MGWR_Kingscourt_25_June_1955 (2) | [Photographer: George… | Flickr NMA_GNR_177_Kingscourt_29_April_1961 | [Photographer: Norman… | Flickr GRM_MGWR_Kingscourt_03_June_1961 | [Photographer: George Mah… | Flickr VSP_SLNCR_2509_Kingscourt_03_July_1965 | [Photographer: Vinc… | Flickr NEG_CIE_26678_Kingscourt_17_April_1975 | [Photographer: Norm… | Flickr NEG_MGWR_Kingscourt_17_April_1975 | [Photographer: Norman Ga… | Flickr

Do you have your eye on this one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/188752317774

What a great looking loco, and a beautiful model that captures a 'work-worn but cared for' appearance. Lovely work!

That looks very effective! Nice work.

Draft artwork for the brake third: Incidentally, while in the IoM I got a photo of another type of 50' coach, also a gangwayed open third but with clerestory: The print had '6185 Kingsbridge' written on the back, and must be post-1956 because of the '2' digit on the adjacent coach. It's clearly not 6185 as GSWR coach numbers didn't get that high, and there wasn't a 618s, I think it might be 816s, 818s or 819s but the print isn't clear enough to be sure - all three survived until 1960. There were 17 of these built, 815 to 832, but many were withdrawn in the 1940s and 1950s. The peculiar thing is that the left-hand door is in the 'wrong' place compared to the original drawings (available from the IRRS) and the GSWR and GSR diagrams - it ought to be one bay to the left (swapping places with a big window). Here's an IRRS photo of 815 with the door position matching the drawings: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508744106 I haven't found any other coach types that are an exact match. A mystery. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to tackle a clerestory coach, and if I did it would probably be something other than this type.

A progress update on the GSWR 50' coach project. I have made some minor updates to the body etch artwork to improve a few matters found during the trial build. I've sent that off to get a second set of etches made. When I was in the Isle of Man last week I was lucky to find some old Irish photos including this nice one taken at Roscrea, probably late 1950s: It shows one of the open brake thirds 857 - 860 which matched the open third I've modelled already: This has encouraged me to produce an alternative body etch representing the brake thirds. I don't have a detailed drawing for them, but I do have both GSWR and GSR diagrams with key dimensions, plus some other good photos from Ernie and the IRRS. So I'm fairly confident I can accurately modify the all-third artwork into a brake third. I can also borrow the ducket artwork from my 30' brake etch. It should be a fairly 'quick win' and will fit the same underframe. Again, Ernie has a lovely colour photo of one of these, arriving at Cork in September 1960 - with a C class this is probably a train from Tralee:

It’s also worth noting that cattle wagons could carry loads other than livestock. I’ve seen photos of them loaded with empty beer kegs/barrels, for example. Enda, @Past-Avenue do you plan to have a stand at the Dublin exhibition in October?

These look great!

Sounds like the exhibitors could spend the Sunday of the exhibition in the nearest pub...

Lovely to see and I always admire your freight operations with such an evocative selection of wagons. 156 was a favourite of mine - a loco that seemed to keep turning up on my trains over a 20-year period from the 1980s to the 2000s.

I think the nature of a layout based on operation tends to be unsuitable for exhibitions. It is usually very large and requires a lot of people to operate. One of my favourite features on Allan Garraway's layout was that he had sawn a notch in one of the roof trusses of his house to provide adequate signal sighting - not for the full size human train driver, but for the imaginary bod in the cab of the loco! Many of his locos were powered by war-surplus motors, oversized but very powerful and controllable. Most of his coaches were basic like Lima Mk1s, but the play value was immense (even for a big group of adults) and there were some beautiful models among them too. Generally the locos had prototypical haulage capacity and speed as well.

This sounds superb, and fits nicely with my memories of the 1980s! I look forward to seeing it develop. Hopefully some of our favourite suppliers will fill the gaps you have identified - I'd be keen on those too.

Some years ago, I really enjoyed a couple of operating sessions on Allan Garraway's layout at Boat of Garten. This was coarse scale O gauge, but huge and complex with several stations, junctions and many route options. It was fully signalled with mechanical interlockings and block working with bell codes. To run a full session required up to 10 people, half signallers and half train drivers. I have also spent an evening on the L&YR signalling school training layout now at the NRM in York. Very instructive. My partly-built Swiss layout (a long-term project) will represent a complete branch line, including the main line junction station, and several stations and halts on the branch. That is also designed for operation. While I do enjoy operation, unfortunately I enjoy building rolling stock the most. So I tend to end up with lots of rolling stock and series of half-completed layouts that never reach their potential...