Mol_PMB

Incidentally, I have finally found out the CIE meaning of 'Hooded' as in the tin vans sometimes referred to as 'Hooded vans'. It means 'gangwayed'. This becomes clear when looking at the summary tables in the 1961 carriage register. The tin vans were probably the first large group of 30' vans with gangways, which may be why the name was applied. I continue to work on the spreadsheets, and I'm also trawling my old IRRS journals for more snippets of carriage fleet info.

Thanks! And thanks to our moderator for approving the pdf uploads in the resources section - so you can now go there and download the originals should you wish.

Research for my recent (and future) posts on the AEC Railcar trailers has led me to the CIE Carriage Registers. These list all the items of coaching stock in service at the date they were issued. Many thanks to @flange lubricator for copying every page of his version of the 1969 register for me, and giving me a hard copy at Downpatrick recently. That 1969 document had a few pages missing, probably removed by whoever at CIE owned the document when the coaches listed thereon were withdrawn - they were also missing from the version Mark had. Then @seagoebox contacted me with an offer to help with the missing pages. It turned out that he had a complete CIE Carriage Register, but it was an earlier document from 1961. Many thanks to Michael for photographing every page of that document and sending them to me! In both cases, the documents have been maintained as a 'live document' for some years after their original publication, withdrawn carriages being crossed out while some conversions are referenced. New carriages have been added with hand-written annotations to some existing pages, and whole new pages have been added to record new and converted vehicles. Some pages listing withdrawn vehicles have been removed, however. As a first step in sharing this information, I have combined the scans/photos of each page of the registers into a pdf document - one for 1961 and the other for 1969. I have submitted these into the 'Resources' section where they are awaiting approval by the moderator. This will give everyone access to the original source information. My next stage is to put all the information into a spreadsheet format so that it is more easily searched and is consistent in format where possible. However, that will involve some element of interpretation, and perhaps some corrections to apparent errors in the original listing. I am also making a list focusing on the renumberings and conversions which occurred in this period - a surprisingly complex story in some cases. Attached is an initial version of the spreadsheet for the 1969 register. It attempts to broadly replicate the format of the original document, with each carriage type described in a separate list. I have also collated all the pages into one 'master list' at the end. Over the next few days I'll do the same for the 1961 listing. I have an ambition to then combine that data with the Pender&Richards, Doyle&Hirsch and IRT&T stock listings, as well as info on the inherited GSWR and GSR carriages (and other sources where possible) to create a complete listing of the CIE steam-heated carriages from 1961 onwards. That may be a big job, but it's the sort of thing my OCD likes to do. CIE_carriage_stock_register.xlsx

Many of my visits to Ennis in the 1980s were like that! But sometimes there was a train. Sorry for going off topic into my childhood reminiscences and terrible photos! I haven’t yet found any pics of a very young me on the footplate of a plinthed green 5c. It did happen, before it was moved and painted black. I’ve not seen it since then. Just visible in the background of this pic of the Ennis datacentre of the 1980s… You’ll have seen the last one before! I was not the cool kid… Well done to Mum for knitting the A class jumper - there was a Mk2 carriage on the back.

I remember the GSRPS stock at Mallow and Tralee, even the Ruston which reached Fenit. A sadly missed opportunity but ultimately the infrastructure is one of the most expensive aspects and all CIE’s branch lines were completely life-expired. Given the tourism focus in the Killarney/Kerry area I think Tralee-Fenit could have worked, but a branch line nearer Dublin would have been better.

Wow. When I was a kid there was no passenger service at all to Ennis, just the occasional special train. Amazing to see how the service has developed now and the extra stations opened or planned. Thanks for the info.

Indeed. I hope the crew at Maam Cross can call on the expertise of people who know how to keep it going. Modern stock is much more challenging than 1960s locos, and if IE have given up on the 2700s that says something.

Good news, Bad news, Good news, and a Question I have tested my green A42 on DCC, having worked out that its ID was 42. No surprise I suppose. Initially it was very jerky and inconsistent. Giving the wheels a good clean with IPA solved that issue - mechanically it runs. Good news But there was no sound (this was advertised as DCC sound fitted) and the lighting functions weren't set up right. So I looked in the roof and found that the chip fitted wasn't a Loksound, but what appears to be an old entry-level non-sound Bachmann chip. Bad news I contacted the eBay seller, and suggested that the best way to resolve this was a partial refund. They responded within a few minutes, agreed to my proposal and sent the amount I had suggested. Good news Now I need to buy a Loksound V5 sound chip for a Crossley A class. There seem to be two options: Accurascale for £114.95: https://www.accurascale.com/products/a-class-crossley-sound-decoder Roads and Rails for £109.99: https://www.roads-and-rails.co.uk/products/loksound-5-decoder-for-irm-irish-a-class-diesel-crossley When AS loyalty points are considered, the prices of both are very similar. They appear to be different products - they certainly have different function listings. The Roads and Rails option has a Kadee Shuffle function which would be useful for me. That doesn't seem to be on the Accurascale function list. I don't know whether the sounds are from different sources, and/or which might be the more realistic for the Crossley. I have actually driven an XA on the main line in Australia so I ought to know what a Crossley A class would sound like. But it was a long time ago and my memory is more of the steam-era driving controls and the absolute filthy oily blackness in the engine room! So the Question, for those of you with sound-fitted Crossley A class. Which option did you choose, and why? Are you happy with it?

Hi John, Many thanks for offering the coach side etches. Sorry for the delay in responding - given the way they are grouped on the etches I've had to think carefully about which combinations of options make most sense. I'd like to order the following: 1339-55 Series Side Corridor Third - sides for 2 coaches 1904-8 Brake Second and BSSGV sides That's in addition to the 4-wheel luggage van and heating van kits already requested (1 of each). Many thanks Paul

I think you've covered the best ideas already in your first post. CC1 would be truly unique with no similar survivors worldwide. Probably the most interesting option for a static exhibit. This may be heresy but I'm not so excited about another big GNR 4-4-0 as we have a nice set of 3 already. I like your ideas of an MGWR loco to fill that gap, and for mainline service the Woolwich would indeed be the obvious one, however a J26 / E would be more practical at Downpatrick. But for true MGWR style I'd pick a 2-4-0 tender loco with the distinctive Atock 'fly away' cab. Not actually too much bigger and heavier than a J26 but much more style, and preserved 2-4-0s are scarce.

I believe there's another bidder for Greenland, whose budget may trump even Accurascale?

Very Nice!

This is my livery matrix for the A class, you'll need to download this or open it in a new window for it to be legible: And the key: Notes: It is very difficult to tell shades of green apart on photos, especially monochrome photos. I have not attempted to distinguish shades of green, only whether they had a waistline. I believe that most of the green locos with a waistline were light green, but a few were dark green. I believe that all green locos without a waistline were light green. On the matrix, if there's an entry in the cell then that corresponds to a dated photo of that loco in that livery. An exception is if the entry is in italics where the evidence is written rather than photographic. If there's no entry in a cell then I have either left it white, or if the same livery is known from before and after that year then I have carried the colour code over between the known years. Some photo dates may be inaccurate. A43 in the mid-1960s is an obvious error on photo dates but I don't know which is wrong. I'm sure there are more photos out there that could fill some of the gaps, I've only looked through about 40,000 images to prepare this matrix...

It does look very nice - I'm glad I was able to get a light green one, which was a fairly common livery for the class. Of the 18 models made by IRM, 12 were in variants of orange and black livery plus two in black. Only one in plain light green, and none in light green with a waist line. The dark green on the A46 model was short-lived and applied to only a few locos. I suppose at least I'm helping to sustain the resale value of IRM locos, even if the money doesn't go to IRM. Hopefully it will work when I test it later!

A new arrival from eBay today, a green A class which I had been mulling over for a while and eventually gave in despite @DJ Dangerous badgering me to buy an anteater instead... I have posed it here with three of my vans which are conversions from the IRM fitted H vans. All of these have been modified to 21mm gauge which isn't as bad as I thought but still a fair bit of work with the brake gear. The green one 18829 has the extended buffers fitted as per prototype. The middle one 18828 is one of the rare prototype Palvans converted from H vans. This is a kitbashed Parkside BR Palvan body on an IRM chassis, also with extended buffers. These were originally green too, but at least one received the plain grey livery shown here. The left-hand one 17083 represents the batch of vans built before the H vans, with a similar body but on a conventional non-triangulated chassis. This uses the spare IRM body from the middle van, on the spare Parkside chassis from the Palvan kit. Both with appropriate modifications. All have been repainted, lettered and weathered. My green van was probably a fair match to the shade of the green A before I weathered it. I have yet to test the A class, and of course it's presently the wrong gauge. I have yet to try regauging an A; as with the wagons it will need new wheels but the existing axles should be OK.

The approvals process for new and refurbished vehicles has moved on from the days of 'Grandfather Rights'. Old steam locos are in most cases well beyond their original design life and have many replacement parts so they are hybrids anyway. Essentially the key aspects to demonstrate are: Acceptable design (applicable to both old and new locos, new-build parts to old designs can be justified as OK in many cases, but even old locos need design changes e.g. for signalling system compatibility) Conformance to design (for new locos/parts: materials and build quality; for old locos/parts: condition (corrosion/wear etc) Maintenance policies and practices (equally applicable to new and old locos, but in some cases more critical for old locos if parts are near end-of-life) Operational policies and practices (equally applicable to new and old locos, does their operation on the network have an acceptable level of risk, considering that the network has changed a lot since the locos were designed, and thinking of modern approaches to competence, safety and tolerable risk.) There's no reason why a new-build loco based on an older design can't be approved - Tornado for example. These days, available materials and manufacturing methods are different from those 100 years ago, and technical standards and requirements have changed too. So nothing will be exactly to the original design, not even an overhauled old loco.

No, I decided that the 6 unfitted H vans I'd ordered before that was announced were enough! There's no point me getting one as a collector's item because regauging it would destroy its value. I'll modify the 6 normal ones I've bought, and renumber/repaint some of them.

Ridiculous! Next you'll be claiming that there's a new-build NCC Mogul... (I did see Peter Scott beavering away at it on Friday. He's done a sterling job, but there's a long way to go and I fear he may not see it finished.)

I've just slightly scared myself that when my 6 arrive, I'll have a total of 23 Irish goods vans! 14 of those are from IRM, 2 are a mix of IRM and Parkside, 4 from Provincial Wagons kits, 2 from JM Design kits, and 1 modified from a Parkside kit. I'm not done yet as I still have several more designs that I want to add to the fleet.

It would be technically possible for it to run again, but very challenging. Even when I briefly worked on 226 at Carrick with Aidan about 20 years back, 103 was a basket-case, and despite having the box built round it, there's another 20 years of deterioration to deal with. 103 is in a poor state with many major missing bits, and spares will be very hard to find. I'm not sure what level of technical documentation still exists to help with re-creating parts that are missing or beyond repair. Restoration to running order would be more akin to the new-build diesel projects in GB - such as the LMS 10000 or the Baby Deltic. It would need lots of money (I'd estimate over a million euros) and a dedicated team of people working on it over many years. Sadly I suspect that's unrealistic and if that level of funding and effort was available it would be better focused on restoring/maintaining the existing ITG fleet (including some of the Moyasta locos) and finishing 226. Someone's going to want to save an 071 as well... The B101s were never a large or widespread class, the last were withdrawn about 50 years ago but it's been over 60 years since they were in fleet service on passenger trains. Anyone that remembers them vividly enough to really care about seeing one run again probably won't be alive to see the job finished. I'm afraid I just can't see it happening. A cosmetic restoration for display would be easier but a lot of bodywork would need replacing, and before any work is done on the loco any asbestos issues would have to be resolved. A cosmetic restoration doesn't have any earning capability either. Also, there's only any point doing the cosmetic restoration if there is somewhere dry and secure to display the loco - where would that be? If there were to be a large museum with plenty of covered space available, then it's worth considering, but even then I can think of higher priorities. The best we can do is to build models!

?

Many thanks. There's a lot to learn from the carriage register, but equally a lot of questions posed that can hopefully be solved by reference to other sources. This will keep me busy for a while. Thanks again!

Great, many thanks! I obviously need to study IRN. The reference to the 4000 series numbers in that second clipping is interesting. I've seen photos of some of those which appear to be former GSWR corridor stock. 4043, 4027 and 4036 are visible here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511303071 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511303076 The copy of the CIE carriage register that I have is missing the pages for 'secondary' stock which would have included those vehicles - I guess the pages were removed from the original once all the listed vehicles had been withdrawn. They're still on the contents page though. I will be sharing all the data in due course, I just want to get my head around it first so I can share it in the most helpful manner.