Mol_PMB

I'm still on a learning curve with Templot - I can manage a crossover on straight track, or a simple turnout on a curve, but I haven't mastered Y-points (contrary flexure turnouts) yet.

The statement might have been true before BnM’s expansion in the 1940s/1950s. In the 1920s, the railway system used to build Ardnacrusha was probably bigger too.

Nice. I see that your work is being inspected by the supervisor.

An update on the classes and designations after a bit of searching online and in the library. I think that in southern Ireland the 3-class system was dropped before the formation of CIE, so that in 1945 there was just first and third. Coaches inherited by CIE and repainted into the more complex dark green livery with waist and cantrail lining ought to have class designations on all doors, reading 1 or 3. Also these normally had snails. There were still plenty of older coaches in this livery around in the mid-1950s. Some inherited coaches were painted into a simplified unlined dark green livery, they may or may not have had class designations and snails. The earlier coaches built by CIE in 1951/1952 were dark green, no lining, no snail, with a 1 on first class doors, but no other class designations. Those built in 1953/1954 were the same but with a narrow line at the waist, no snail, with a 1 on first class doors, but no other class designations. The AEC railcars were delivered in this scheme but did have third class 3 designations on the doors as well as first class 1. Carriages built in 1954/1955 on the triangulated underframe with commonwealth bogies (including Park Royals) were the same livery as the 1953/1954 coaches, but had silver bogies and underframes. Third Class was redesignated Second Class on 3rd June 1956, the same date as in the UK. Some coaches may have been outshopped with 2 designations on the doors a little in advance of the official changeover, this photo is dated 2 weeks prior: AEC railcar 2646 seen here only a few days after the class redesignation already carries 2 numerals: Coaches weren't all repainted overnight, and this interesting photo dated September 1956 shows the first vehicle with 1 and 2 on the doors. Note that the 1s have been there a while and are weathered, whereas the 2s are freshly added: Meanwhile the second vehicle is still in the 1940s livery with 1s and 3s on the doors (and snails). Same date in September 1956, note the Park Royals on the right, one of which has received a 2 but the other hasn't: So it looks like some carriages had the 2s added to their existing paint job, and therefore 2s could be seen on dark green coaches: So, regardless of the exact year in the 1950s you're modelling, I think your Bredin composite with the waist and cantrail lines needs some 1 and 3 class numerals and some snails. Your open standard can needs a thin waist line but doesn't need class numerals or snails. This photo is cropped from page 4 of Keith Pirt Colour Portfolio (an excellent album - highly recommended) It dates from 1961, so a later period, but I think it shows most clearly the contrast in green liveries on Park Royals. The leading coach is freshly-painted light green with black ends, 2 class designations on the doors. Note that the window frames have been painted green. The second coach is the same, but a bit weathered. The fourth coach is is much darker green, despite being at the same angle to the sun and not in shade - we can see the sunlight glinting off the opening toplights of the windows. They would glint, because when the Park Royals entered service in dark green these toplights were left unpainted, as seen in the two of Ernie's photos immediately above this one, and also shown in the brand new photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506776188 When new they also had dark green ends, again the same three photos prove this. So for the Park Royals, I am convinced that the following variants existed in the green period: Dark green on sides and ends, unpainted aluminium window toplights. Eau-de-nil waist line. No class designation on doors. Silver underframe and bogies (got dirty quickly). Dark green on sides and ends, unpainted aluminium window toplights. Eau-de-nil waist line. 2 class designation added on doors. Silver underframe and bogies (got dirty quickly). Light green on sides including window toplights. Eau-de-nil waist line. 2 class designation on doors. Black ends with dimension plates picked out in red. Underframe and bogies may have been painted black or just left dirty. There may have been other variants as well. At some stage in the late 1950s the doors were modified which might create further variants. It is not clear from the Accurascale website which shade(s) of green they are using. The only green decorated sample I've seen is light green with black ends, which is in accordance with the first 2 coaches in the image above except it is lacking the 2 class designations on the doors. Are the model coaches with green ends a darker shade? We shall see...

I suppose key dates are when CIE abolished the 3-class system, and when third was re-designated second. I haven’t found definitive dates for those changes but it would have been 1950s. I think this railcar has a 3 class indication on the rear door in 1953: Whereas the 1959 photos have a 2 class on the railcars: Shades of green are so variable in photos! I find them hard to interpret especially if there were supposed to only be two shades of green.

That train is looking great! I agree that a single waist stripe is correct for your open standard as built. My belief is that the Park Royals were delivered in dark green with the single waist stripe and green ends. Silver underframe and bogies but those got dirty very quickly. Then at their first repaint they got light green with a single waist stripe and black ends. Another observation relates to the class numerals. In the original dark green livery with multiple lines, all classes were marked with numerals 1 2 3 on the doors. In the simpler dark green livery applied to the earlier CIE-built carriages, first class had 1 numerals on the doors, but second/standard class was usually not marked. Whereas in the silver livery and the light green livery, there were 2 numerals on standard class doors as well as 1 on the first. I haven’t proven this 100% and there were surely exceptions to the rule, but it may be a useful guide to the shade of green in monochrome photos.

Today I have been experimenting with cutting copperclad sleepers for 21mm gauge pointwork, using my laser cutter. After a few trials I have prepared a set of bearers for a crossover: I also had a go at making some track gauges from the same material, which seems to have been quite effective. I may reinforce them by soldering a rail offcut to the copper surface. I have my plan created in Templot and printed out: Now I need some rails...

Those are the two books I have on the system and I'm not aware of any others, though it features a page or two in many general Irish railway books. It's a long time since I visited the brewery/museum but there was plenty to see there too.

Did you not fancy a special paint job too? Maybe that’ll come in future on a different class of loco?

It's also worth a look at Ernie's albums for this period, particularly the 1956 set: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157715532510616/ And some in the 1920s-1950s album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157628303965777 The last few colour ones are 1959 so may be a bit late for your interests, but they are in colour which is nice.

I'll have a go at answering this question, though I expect JHB will put me right. The 1940s CIE dark green livery which seems to have been applied to many inherited coaches in the 1945-1950 period had quite complex lining. Looking from a distance there were two bands of eau-de-nil, but on close inspection these were bordered by more thin lines which I think were a different colour. These IRRS photos show the lining quite well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509204070 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509036813 This photo of Ernie's shows the early green scheme in colour: The coaches inherited by CIE in 1945 were mostly old panelled types and there weren't many modern flush-sided types, so we're more used to seeing the complex lining on older style coaches. But it was also applied to some of the flush-sided GSR and MGWR vehicles, like these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509093119 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509310165 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508957150 However, in the 1940s some of the 1930s flush-panelled GSR coaches seem to have been repainted in CIE green with snails but unlined: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508888343 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511165871 The first carriages built by CIE in the 1951-1953 period were on conventional welded truss underframes and GSR-style bogies. These were intended to run with the AEC railcars and comprised: Compartment Composites 2124-2129 (1951) Compartment Standards 1339-1350 (1951) Compartment Standards 1351-1355 (I think these were built at Dundalk?) Compartment Composites 2130-2136 (1952) Open Standards 1356-1371 (1953) Brake Standards 1908-1908 (1953) Buffet Cars 2405-2418 (1953-1954) As you noted, this photo of 2135 when newly outshopped shows a livery of bright aluminium window surrounds but no lining or snails. The vehicle and class numbers have been applied though: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508722781 This bottom right corner of this photo is one of the compartment standards, either 1339-1350 or 1351-1355, which has a different window style but again is in unlined livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509198220 However, the later carriages in this group seem to have had lining at the waist, just a single thin line, and still no snails. Open standard 1365 and another, newly built: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507832507 Another open standard in service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507581782/ Buffet 2408 in 1954: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509040109 My understanding is that all the above were in dark green, with black underframes. After that, there was a significant design change, with the Bulleid triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies introduced. This group included: Compartment Standards 1372-1378 (1954) Compartment Composites 2137-2161 (1954) Park Royal Open Standards 1379-1418 (1955) Park Royal Open Standards 1419-1428 (1956) Composite 2146 in 1954 showing the same livery on the body - a single thin line at the waist and no snail. However the bogies and underframe are painted silver: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508672646 The coach on the left is one of the standards 1372-1378; the one on the right may be another composite 2137-2161: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253236973 The Park Royals emerged in this scheme too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506776188 I think these were all still the darker green initially? Photos indicate that many/all of the Park Royals were outshopped in the darker green. Their waist line was slightly broader than most to suit the shape of the vehicle. Then it all went silver! And after a while, reverted to green, but a lighter colour and with the snail reinstated. But I think those periods are beyond the scope of the question.

Sorry, I didn't see this before. I have a couple of packs of fertiliser wagons that are surplus to requirements as I've backdated my modelling period. I got them both secondhand but they appear as-new. I have: Pack D - IRM1043D 35027 & 35071 Pack E - IRM1044E 35001 & 35012 I'm in England though, so depending on where you are that might be an advantage or disadvantage.

I wouldn't be surprised if Glasnevin becomes a stop on the Sligo trains once the Metro is in operation.

:-) (Photo by Jonathan Allen on Flickr, NIR's second batch 825-828 were early Mk2c and are first and third in this train, with a Mk2b between)

The same could be said of any piece of transport infrastructure though! I wonder how many people travel from Belfast or Cork to Dublin Airport? Belfast and Cork both have their own airports with a good range of destinations, and if you want to go further afield then it's perhaps easier to fly from Belfast or Cork to (say) Manchester or Amsterdam and change there. For those who do want to go to Dublin Airport there are some express road coaches which seem to provide for the market fairly well and have the advantage of a direct journey to the airport with no need to handle luggage through changes of transport mode. But I don't think there's a huge volume of traffic that way. Malahide - well that also has a regular direct bus to the airport. It runs through from Sutton. I used it a few weeks ago and it was reliable and convenient. This metro will surely be useful for commuting into Dublin from north and south, and for providing a quality link from the airport into the city centre for onward connections to greater Dublin by suburban train or LUAS.

This is the sort of rake an RTC Mk2 could turn up in... looks like someone went through the bargain bin in their local modelshop and came out with a load of mismatched carriages and an alien loco:

Given that this is an early announcement of the specials in Batch 2, I can't help wondering whether the main content of Batch 2 might include some early NIR maroon and blue stock. The relevant mouldings for the initial Mk2B deliveries have been done already, it's just a different paint job. Over on RMweb, AS have hinted that there aren't any more NIR grey/blue liveried Mk2s in the immediate plans.

Quite a lot of photos of special and excursion trains seem to include a bogie van, including GAA specials. I had visions of it being stacked high with crates of Guinness, but perhaps that's unfair.

The RTC painted all sorts in blue and red, including Mk1s / Mk2s / Mk3s, an autocoach, various types of wagons, locos, even the prototype Maglev. The later livery as a variant of the Intercity scheme was quite good too. By my time it was mostly Railtrack lime/blue, Serco red/grey, AEAT blue, or later NR yellow. I have fond memories of testing the two Mk2 coaches in the first edition of the NMT at 140mph.

This is a short question with a very long answer! There was a fairly large fleet and it was used in all sorts of different formations and in different ways. Broadly the RTC train activities could be divided into 3 groups: Track or infrastructure measuring trains, which ran regularly to monitor things like track geometry, rail cracks, overhead catenary, structure gauging. Each train would have one or more test cars and some support vehicles with staff messing facilities, perhaps also some other vehicles to provide brake force. Some had a driving car to enable them to be propelled. These would have reasonably consistent formations. Test cars used for assessing the performance of new or modified locos or rolling stock, things like ride performance, brake tests, traction power. Often operated as single vehicles together with the wagon or loco under test. Test trains associated with research programmes. These would be developed and formed up to suit the needs of each research programme. When the tests had been completed the train would be split up and the vehicles might well be re-used for other purposes. Examples of research programmes included the Tribometer (wheel/rail adhesion tests), radio communications, developments of improved freight vehicle suspensions and the validation of computer models such as Vampire, and many aspects of the APT development. This website gives a good overview of the RTC activities and has many photos of different types of test train: Testing home page Hope that helps!

There were more Mk2s in RTC livery, but some of them were other types of Mk2 (e.g. there was one of the very early Mk2 FKs with the different windows). At one time I worked at the RTC and I've been on a few test trains, but the classic RTC livery had mostly gone before my time.

Hmm, the red looks a bit too bright to hook behind a Hunslet. Maybe some early NIR examples are waiting in the wings though…

The locos are in supertrain livery, so it’s after 1972. Behind the locos is a bogie van, not a TPO. That opens up more options of what type of train it is.

The first is a bogie luggage van, probably one of those converted from passenger stock, mostly early CIE (2562-2591) but some late GSR (2559-2561). The second is a compartment coach, probably CIE early 1950s. Note the toilets near the middle. It's hard to tell from this view whether it's a standard or a composite, but I think there's a door between the toilets making it a standard. Best guess would be one of the 1372-1378 batch of 1954, as it has commonwealth bogies and triangulated underframe. The next two are 64-seat open standards, with only a single toilet window at the end, but they seem to have different cross-section profiles and different bogies so may be different batches. The leading one could be from the 1356-1371 batch of 1953, and the nearer one may be from the 1497-1503 batch of 1962. Then the Park Royal - seems to be a suburban type without toilets. The last is a 32xx series steam heat van converted from passenger stock - some of these retained some of the compartments in passenger use. I think it might be from the 3213-3218 batch. There is no catering car in the train - their roof details are quite distinctive.

Many thanks John, very useful. Interesting to see the different arrangements of vestibules and toilets on the two types, and the high proportion of smoking accommodation. Photographic evidence indicates that the 1429-1448 type were delivered in 'silver' (unpainted aluminium) but the the 1449-1496 type were green from new. Edit: there's a nice close-up view of one end of a 1429-1448 type coach in the book 'Bulleid and the Turf Burner', page 65. This photo dated October 1957 shows some interesting details: The small window in the toilet compartment was frosted, as one would expect, but the adjacent one above the handbasin was clear. The large windows in the saloon had curtains on their lower part, which were hung from a rail just below the opening vents. The panelling and beading of the sides and roof is shown very clearly, also the door furniture. Some of the autumn 1957 tests of CC1 used a full train of these coaches (with a tin van on the back) which must have looked shiny!