Mol_PMB

My three sets of bubbles have already arrived this morning. Very prompt!

Darius, this is all looking excellent, and coming together at your usual breakneck speed. Superb work.

This IRRS photo dated 22 October 1955 does definitely show a main line Park Royal when new, although it only sneaks into the edge of the photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651 Features that are quite obvious in this image are the toilet tank pipework and steps on the ends, also the frosted toilet window. The door is open (inwards) in this image. The livery appears to be green with a pale waist line and silver underframe, apparently the same as the suburban Park Royals. The number is 142x, but I can't be sure of the last digit. This may be the same vehicle on the same occasion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260 So far I have struggled to find other photos of main line Park Royals in new condition - and I have been looking! I confess that I think the silver livery theory is unlikely (because all the other 'silver' coaches were clad in unpainted aluminium, so they were just left unpainted, but Park Royals were steel-clad and would have had to be painted silver. Not impossible, maybe one was done as a trial, but I've yet to see any convincing evidence.) Suburban Park Royals didn't have the water pipes or steps on the ends (as correctly modelled by IRM, of course). The vestibule windows were clear, and the back of the bench seats in the vestibule are clearly visible through them - shown nicely in this photo from Ernie: And from the opposite angle, this IRRS photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506776188 Looking at the model photos shown above, I think I might have to do a bit of modelling to add those bench seat backs

Hi Fran, That’s great, many thanks for the update. I’ll wait and see what you have for is around Christmas then. Incidentally I did think the first coach was a suburban. I see no evidence of toilet pipework or frosted windows, but I do see the backs of the longitudinal seats in the vestibules. I must say though that I’ve found early photos of the main line versions very hard to find. Maybe the external differences were more subtle than I’m expecting. Do you have any 1950s pics of the main line Park Royals that you could share here? Cheers, Paul

Many thanks for the update, @Warbonnet I was wondering whether IRM have any more photos of the green ones? Especially closeups of the livery differences (black vs green ends etc) and the different types of doors. SKU:IRM1212 and SKU:IRM1213 which have green ends are listed as "1955-58 Period. As built, with inward opening doors." The 2D artwork for these two SKUs shows the different doors but as yet I don't think I've seen any sample models with the inward opening doors. The latest photo updates do show a carriage with green ends but the livery is applied to a model with the later type of doors (i.e. with the window positioned lower, and the bottom of the door flush with the bottom of the bodyside). Is it still planned to represent the different door types? Also, I understand that there were some adjustments made to the model paint spec and it would be interesting to see how the green colour compares to A42 and A46. This photo dated 1961 shows the first coach with original doors, but later light green livery with black ends. The second coach has modified doors, while the fourth (in dark green livery) has the original doors. I do want to order a couple more, but would like to make an informed choice. I'm always happy to do some modifications and repainting though. Many thanks, Paul (I did ask a version of this question in the Park Royal thread a few days ago, but had no response. Sorry to duplicate but hopefully it will get seen here)

Until the mid/late 1980s. Four were still in traffic in 1987 but all had gone by 1989.

It's not a TPO, but a bogie van with parcels/luggage and guard's accommodation. It appears to be one of the 10 vans built new by CIE in 1960, numbered in the 2549-2558 series. There were many more similar vehicles that were converted from former passenger stock in the early 1970s, but they were different in detail.

I was just having a look for photos of the prototype and found these, I assume this is the type of W iron you want: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508778884/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253146283/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507575592/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507575597/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53501071339/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508981899/ Whilst similar in style, this one is different in proportions: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644793/ Edit: this looks like the right type of W iron but the wrong railway. It's a good closeup though: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507575262/ Based on your existing model, I assume you don't want a hole in the W iron to locate the axle bearing, because that will be in the cast axlebox. Any preferences on material (brass or nickel silver) or thickness? I can probably scale dimensions reasonably well off this photo, can you confirm the wheelbase of this wagon type for me to use as a basis for scaling? https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508778884/ Might be worth thinking if there are any other useful bits for these wagons that could be added to the etch...

Hi Leslie, did you get any takes for your sweepstake - I think you were being a bit over-optimistic for 2022! Although the relevant thread over on RMweb has seen a bit of activity this week, there haven't been any images posted for over year, and those were CADs or early 3D prints. It's not clear to me which variants are actually planned now - some of the posts suggest that they have simplified the range by reducing the number of jib/cab options available. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/150979-standard-cowans-sheldon-15t-crane-mk1-and-mk2-jib-announced/?do=findComment&comment=5683174

I'm happy to do the artwork if you can provide a sketch of what is required. Although 4D Modelshop has withdrawn from the bricks&mortar shop business, Iain is still offering custom etches on the same basis as before.

Very nice work, but obviously fiddly! Well done.

I will take this as a challenge to find photos of more! In fact now I've had a quick search I do have some more... This IRRS photo dated 1946 only shows the right-hand part of an open wagon, but it has a small snail on it. Implication but not proof that it had 2 small snails. In this case the snail is on the top plank: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508940168/ These IRRS photos dated 1947 show 'convertible' van 1863 (complete view with 2 small snails) and 1823 (partial view of the right-hand part with a small snail): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509063589/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508987629/ A single small snail on the left-hand part of the side isn't proof of 2 snails, as seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508838653/ So there were certainly several wagons with two small snails. Photos from the late 1940s are scarce compared to the later years so this may have been the standard scheme initially. The single large snail (still in green / EdN) was definitely in use by 1946 so the application of two snail livery was short-lived. Replacing it with a single large snail wouldn't have saved any paint but maybe a few minutes of the painter's time.

When CIE was formed in 1945 to take over the public transport operations in Ireland, they seem to have spent the first 5 years repainting everything - to be fair it needed doing and they didn't have the budget for new-build. It wasn't until CIE was nationalised that they had a useful renewals budget to work with. Anyway, whilst working through my library a few months ago I found an interesting snippet in 'The Farranfore to Valentia Harbour Railway' volume 2 (Patrick O'Sullivan). There's a section on rolling stock liveries through the years, including wagons. Now we're normally familiar with one medium/large snail per wagon side, usually spanning two planks and typically about 12" high. So since reading the quote above I've been looking for a clear photo showing the original 1945 scheme with two small snails. I'd found several partial views but this is the first complete clear image I've found showing this livery, and it appears to match the description perfectly. This is former GSWR open wagon 10351 seen in 1948: If I come across more images of this 'two snail' wagon livery I'll add them to this thread. I wonder how widespread this scheme was and how long it lasted before being repainted? It would make an interesting variation to the later 'one snail' which of course could be seen in green or white.

There's a small batch of slides for sale on ebay at the moment which may be of interest to @Irishswissernie but for the purposes of this thread include this interesting view of D301: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/357738471513 Note that it is missing quite a few parts (rods, buffers) but appears freshly painted. A roundel on the end was an unusual feature for a black-liveried loco of any class. And a roundel in conjuction with large numbers on the side was also unusual. Photos indicate that only D301 had the bulge on the cab backsheet - I assume this was for a handbrake, and that the remaining D class had a vertically-mounted handwheel like the later E class. The white 'fringe' was also carried by D303, as can be seen in this slide also being offered on ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/397129051046 Note that D304 had two sets of smaller numbers on the side, more like the black E class livery.

Thanks - that is interesting. As well as the Kockum builder's plate (their works number 15562 I think), note that there is another stamped plate on the left, it was probably enamelled but has been painted over so it's harder to read. The tanks were pressure vessels so they would have all carried registration plates and had their own individual number, because in the case that tanks and chassis were swapped around, the pressure vessel registration and inspection records needed to go with the tank not the chassis. I suspect the plate on the left may be associated with the pressure vessel testing and certification. On the early batches, the tanks were originally numbered on the catwalks from 001 upwards, these numbers may have been used by Irish Cement or CIE for maintenance and inspection purposes. Of course the wagons were numbered from 25050 upwards, so the tank number was 25049 less than the running number. Later there was a renumbering of the tanks (and presumably the paperwork) so that the tank number matched the last 3 digits of the running number. I think this was implemented before delivery of the last batch, so we would expect that wagon 25199 would have carried tank 199. Neither of these tank number series seem to match the Kockum's works numbers.

I was wondering whether IRM have any more photos of the green ones? Especially closeups of the livery differences (black vs green ends etc) and the different types of doors. Also it would be interesting to see how the green colour compares to A42 and A46. I do want to order a couple more, but would like to make an informed choice.

Many thanks for the kind words! I do feel i’ve cheated a bit compared to those who produce masterpieces hewn manually from the metal. Sorry for the delay in responding. You have probably enjoyed some peace and quiet on the forum while I’ve been off-grid for the past 2.5 weeks. I’m home now but with jetlag .

My carriage register spreadsheet gives details of the bogie type, underframe type and dimensions for CIE carriages: The triangulated underframe and 8’0” Commonwealth bogies used under the Park Royals were also used together under many other carriage types built in the 1954-1962 period, including those mentioned by John. There were also a few older vehicles with conventional underframes that were retro-fitted with 8’0” wheelbase Commonwealth bogies, such as 351, 1906, 1907, AM12. These bogies may have come from four of the 1954-built composites which are listed in the 1960s as having GSR bogies and a triangulated underframe. The last few timber-bodied coaches built by CIE in the 1962-1964 period had triangulated underframes with 8’6” wheelbase Commonwealth bogies more like those used in GB. Some ex-CIE carriage underframes of the triangulated type with Commonwealth bogies were sold to NIR for engineers’ use. So there are plenty of opportunities to use the Park Royal underframes and bogies for other vehicles. The bogies would be most useful if the triangulated underframe can also be provided as a spare.

A couple of photos from Ernie's excellent albums on Flickr - this one shows the GS livery on goods vans quite clearly: This is 1950s but most of the vans are 1930s or earlier - plenty of variety:

This is a Bachmann GWR goods van which bears a pretty good resemblance to some built by the GSWR just prior to being grouped into the GSR. The ends and the brake gear are a bit different, but put some GS transfers on the side it wouldn't look out of place.

I found another Park Royal in the early BnT livery. This is 1396 at Westport in 1963: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256999668/ The coach visible on the right of this shot dated 1964 could well be 2121, the ex-GSR compo we have seen already in this thread: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734117/ I had been thinking there ought to be another odd-numbered AEC railcar to make up the pairs, and here is 2609 in early BnT: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570791079/ Here's another view of a 4-wheel 31xx heating van, again with the number illegible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506625116/ I'll leave it there for now, and let you all have some peace and quiet for a couple of weeks. I'm off on my hols...

I've stumbled across another shot of tail traffic behind an AEC railcar, at Claremorris in August 1958: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253434710 There are two 6-wheelers tagged on the back of the railcar: I think they are a 5-compartment third and a full brake.

I think this was the last update we had with (very mouth-watering) photos, about 10 months ago. The snack car images seem to show a slightly more developed version compared to the October 2024 update, but maybe it's just because they are closeups and we can see more detail. I know there have been some production changes during the gestation of this project including a move from one factory to another - I'm not sure whether this was before or after this last update, so I'm really looking forward to the new update.

And I'd like to build brake second driving trailer 1906 using some of mayner's etched sides, and this was fitted with 8'0" commonwealth bogies.

I hope so too, I have asked, but they were unable to confirm if it would be possible. I've been thinking about this, and many of the vehicles I might want to put the bogies under could also use the underframe and the roof from the Park Royals. So I'm thinking of getting a couple to be stripped as parts donors - ideally a few cheap 'mis-shapes' but I don't know if such things exist. However, a few extra bogies would be extremely useful for many projects. I expect that some of mine will end up being partially repainted too. Edit: Incidentally I was looking back at my orders placed in October/November 2024, and the update email sent by IRM on 7/11/2024. That email had more pictures than the update posted on the website on 25/10/2024. I'm not sure we've had much since then!