Mol_PMB

Very nice, and great advice - thanks. I do like that crane!

After that many they could probably flog me a membership and a load of books as well!

I'll be on this tour, might see some of you there? Looking forward to a trip in the Cravens set and on some of the branch lines. And a pint or three of the black stuff.

The M3 Parkway line is one of the few bits of the network I haven’t travelled on, so I’m planning to do a trip from Docklands on Friday afternoon this week (I’ll be in Dublin for the RPSI tour on Saturday). I note that there are a couple of direct trains from M3 Parkway to Connolly in the evening. Does anyone know which route they take?

It appears in the book ‘Steaming in Three Centuries’ but may also be elsewhere. @leslie10646 may be your best lead.

701s? That series was always a gap. H class?

Stadler is a Swiss company that has grown from modest origins 30-odd years ago into a major player in the European rolling stock market. They have acquired various other failing manufacturers including factories in Spain such as the loco plant in Valencia. Their products are highly regarded and they often produce very small batches fir niche applications. They’re not cheap though!

Love the test cars too! People seem to love the RTC red/blue but the later test car livery was also excellent. By the time I worked there the stock was mostly in Railtrack liveries.

I'm back from holiday and have decided to build a couple of wooden-bodied open wagons to provide variety in my rake of my Bullied corrugated opens. Many of the photos of trains at Fenit in the mid-1960s show a mixture of wooden and corrugated opens, like these images from Ernie and John Powell: The starting point was a pair of the Pre-Grouping Railways kits representing the GNR 6-plank open, a 3D printed kit with etched detail parts and available here: https://pregroupingrailways.com/product-category/irish-railways/ This was pretty much an Irish standard wagon design used by many of the Irish railways. However, there are various detail differences. The kit represents the type with a wooden underframe, but some railways preferred a steel underframe, and this also had implications on the style of body strapping. I decided to build mine as wooden underframe variants. The kit provides 3D printed ribbed buffers but none of the prototype photos I found had them. However, there were several different buffer styles used by various railways. The kit also has grease-lubricated axleboxes but most wagons in service in the CIE era had oil axleboxes which are a different shape The arrangement of planks was very variable, within a consistent overall height. Some wagons had fewer, wider planks, and later repairs led to wagons with different numbers of planks on various parts of their body! I decided to build one wagon as a former GSR (possibly GSWR) type with self-contained buffers, and the other as a former MGWR type with spindle buffers. Here's the current progress on the pair, MGWR on the left and GSR on the right: The kit comprises 3 main parts - body and two rocking axleguard assemblies (suitable for 28mm axles and 21mm gauge). On each wagon I fixed one axleguard assembly and used a wire pivot for the other to rock giving some compensation. The appropriate type of buffers were fitted. Lanarkshire B011 castings for the GSR type, and Gibson 4967 turnings for the MGWR type. Etched coupling hooks were also fitted. I filed the axleboxes to a rectangular shape to represent the oil-lubricated type, and added the cover plate fixing bolts with wire (only done on the GSR wagon so far). A bit of fine work with the Dremel and a scalpel has hollowed out one of the boxes to represent a missing cover (quite common in reality!) I bent up some 1mm x 0.25mm nickel silver strip to represent the door bangers (only done on the GSR wagon so far). The next step is to get the MGWR wagon up to the same stage as the GSR one, and then to add the brake gear to both. I also need to add mounts for Kadee couplings, and other minor details such as worksplates, label clips and perhaps a representations of the chains for the door securing pins. Some photos of prototype examples, first the MGWR ones, known numbers are 694M and 850M, both of which survived until at least 1970 with 694M receiving a repaint and CIE roundel at its 1967 overhaul: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511304021 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511736610 I plan to model 850M. Now the GSR examples, known numbers are 11162, 11476, 11562, 11595, 11644, 11743, 11786, 11802. Photos around 1960 show them with flying snails. 11162 and 11802 had been repainted in grey roundel livery in the late 1960s, while 11644 received a repaint in red-brown with roundel in 1970. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498764321 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49428783072 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508785409 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511647714 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49529164797 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52392496910 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570648608 Ernie's photo of 11562 is particularly nice and I plan to model this wagon: I'm enjoying building these, and I may well buy another to build as an ex-GNR wagon in tatty GNR livery with CIE stencil. Some of the GNR 6-plank wagons survived long enough to get repainted in CIE roundel livery such as 3541N seen here in 1970: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511304876 I might also buy one of the GNR 4-plank versions (available as a kit from the same manufacturer), which were also to be found at Fenit in the 1960s:

I believe that most will be bogie flats, suitable for containers, with optional ISO-compatible swapbodies to suit other traffics - such as the existing spoil wagon variants. Not a new concept in Ireland! Great flexibility for different uses, but not always the optimal tare weight. The future options may include the flexibility for other wagon types dedicated to certain traffics. This info came from a former colleague and is from a few months ago, so it's possible that plans may have changed since then. Hopefully someone here can tell us more now that the contract has been formally announced.

Many thanks John, that's interesting info. As you say, the 'Big Boy' vans were certainly longer and taller than the H vans, but looking at photos the 1946 batch seem to have had dimensions closer to the H vans. I think some of the difference in your model comparison is caused by the difference in floor height of the models. This photo by Ernie on Flickr shows 1946 van 17194 next to H van 18872: Other comparison photos of the two types, in the IRRS Flickr archive and from Ernie: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511423619 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53448460062 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/27895402005 And a couple more photos of the 1946 batch, from Ernie and Jonathan Allen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/53974928869 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52050027329 Some 'Big Boy' info in this thread:

As and when you have your more important challenges under control again, I agree. I'd buy another one or two brake van kits and I'm sure other people newly attracted to Irish modelling would be interested too. They are excellent models. I wonder whether the same logic would apply to the tin vans, expecially once we have the Park Royals?

Did you have to pay a 50% deposit up front on your H van order? I had to.

Yes, little trickles of white paint on the coping stones and a few streaks on the front wall. They would need to be very fine in 4mm scale though, a very fine brush would be needed. I have five different species of gull on my Ship Canal layout and the row of dozens of them is quite prototypical for the present day but probably a bit excessive for the 1960s period I'm modelling, as there was more pollution back then. I enjoyed adding them to the layout though, and they help to set the canalside scene because I only have room for a tiny bit of water on the front of the layout. The bigger birds are sold for 7mm scale and are about the right size for large gulls (e.g. Herring Gull, Black Backed Gulls) but for the smaller gulls (e.g. Black Headed Gull, Mediterranean Gull) I used 4mm scale gulls. This is probably way more information than you wanted! I do like birds...

Excellent news and I will be ordering half a dozen to go with my fitted vans. Someone mentioned worksplates which are very nice to see, and the works plate position on the body is correct for the more numerous earlier vehicles as represented by most of the IRM models. A minor detail is that the later batches of unfitted H vans (photos suggest 18862 onwards) had their worksplates on the underframe rather than the body. An easy modification for those who like a bit of variety in their rake. Prior to the introduction of the pallet cement wagons, many H vans were used for bagged cement traffic. To prevent cross-contamination of loads, some were branded for cement only. I plan to add some branding to some of mine using custom decals to provide some variety. There were variations in the branding, for example: 17568 pictured in 1955 had 4 lines of small text: FOR CEMENT TRAFFIC / ONLY / RETURN EMPTY TO / LIMERICK 18252 pictured in 1960 had a simpler 2-line branding: CEMENT TRAFFIC / LIMERICK If the numbers on the decorated samples are correct, the selection of 17194 as one of the brown livery vans is puzzling, as it was one of the predecessors to the H vans: a batch of 200 built from 1946 on conventional (non-triangulated) chassis, with much longer brake levers and lacking the grid of bolts on the bodysides. Otherwise these earlier vans look nearly identical to the H vans. I only spotted it because I had already made plans to model this particular vehicle myself by putting a slightly-modified IRM H van body on a modified Parkside chassis. My notes also indicate that 18675 and 18727 were in the range of numbers allocated to fitted H vans, though I don't have photos to prove they were fitted so please correct me if I'm wrong on that. A little snippet in the text there that suggests we may have Palvans to look forward to. Wonderful!

Ah, realistic weathering, if a bit over-scale! On my O gauge layout based on the Manchester Ship Canal, I carefully added the seagull droppings below their perch:

The G611s were delivered with vacuum train brakes and screw couplings, as seen in this NLI image on Flickr dated February 1962, and showing at least 5 of the class: This photo shows them in green livery, and G613 also carries a cabside number. The locos were repainted in black'n'tan before entering service. There were quite a lot of other detail differences between the G601 and G611 batches, including windows, grilles, lights, frame and footplate cutouts, waist strip around cab, handrails.

That's wonderful, many thanks! Sorry for the delayed response, I've been away on hols for two weeks and only now catching up. Cheers, Mol

I've got three from when they were first produced - they are indeed very nice. There are some subtle differences among the different models, such as the vacuum brake cylinder arrangements.

Here are a couple of my old photos of the Waterford push-pull set with the unique Cafe/Bar coach, seen here between Cork and Mallow. Probably a Sunday? By this time, most of the push-pulls were branded Intercity, but there's one without (in addition to the Cafe/Bar) Sorry for the poor quality - these are scans of prints frm 35mm negatives. Tralee train on the same occasion:

Thanks - that's useful to confirm it was a water tank. Presumably then it was for loco feedwater rather than drinking water. I know that some railways had drinking water tank wagons for supplying remote stations and signalboxes. Steam traction at Fenit finally ended in 1962/3 when the G class arrived to finally replace 560. But as you say, there was a water tower at the station, seen here in use in 1961: I wondered whether it might have been used to supply the steam cranes on the pier (which lasted into the early 1970s), but given the number of buildings out there I think there must have been a freshwater supply on the pier.

Here's one of the wooden-framed type, now re-clad in ply, in 1955: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49202953702

It's worth noting that there were other similar wagons, though all different in detail, and they appear on some lifting trains: This photo of Fenit in 1955 appears to show a similar tank wagon (though not 574B): https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000733673 So there must have been a need for these wagons at Fenit which would explain why 574B was allocated to Tralee-Fenit after the West Cork lines closed. What was it for?

Now, the story of this veteran doesn't end with the closure of the West Cork lines in 1961. Here's 574B with a fresh coat of paint at Glanmire Road in the early 1960s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772934 It's now lettered: MAINTENANCE DEPT CORK TO WORK BETWEEN TRALEE AND FENIT. There appear to have been some modifications to the pump arrangement but it's not clear in the photo. By 1969 it was photographed at Glanmire Road again, and had been modified and re-lettered. The tanks have been moved closer together but the connecting pipes may have been removed. It now appears to be labelled as a water tank but with two different types of water. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435012 I can't quite read all the lettering on the side but I think it includes: TO RUN BETWEEN WATER DEPT CORK AND LIMERICK ONLY MAINTENANCE DEPT CORK BALLAST WATER DE?????ATED WATER The wagon was seen again at Glanmire Road in 1977, by now marked for withdrawal: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570779639 That's all I've got so far.

Wagon 574B, later renumbered 574A, had an ancient-looking wooden frame with two rectangular tanks mounted on it. There was also some pipework and what may have been a manual pump with a small-diameter hose attached. I would be interested to know what this wagon was used for. Surprisingly it appears in quite a lot of photos. We'll start with this image from Ernie at Courtmacsherry in 1954 - 574B is visible on the right: The B suffix indicates a former CBSCR wagon, which would be appropriate for the location. The stocklist in Ernie Shepherd's book on the CBSCR lists 574 as a 12-ton open wagon built in 1904 at their own Rocksavage works, and the design of the underframe appears very similar to other wagons built at Rocksavage around that time. So it's likely that the tank wagon was modified from that 1904-built open wagon. One end of the wagon had an upright framework which appears to support a pump feeding a small-diameter hose (about an inch diameter). With no apparent source of power I assume it's a manual pump. The tank at the other end of the wagon has a breather pipe on the side. The two tanks appear to be connected together by slightly larger diameter pipes at floor level. In the UK, rectangular tanks were often used for tar traffic, usually with some form of steam heating coils in the tank so that the tar could be liquified for discharge. But I don't think 574B was a tar tank - a manual pump and small-diameter hose would have been completely unsuitable for dispensing tar! 574B is also pictured in the CBSCR book, in exactly the same place as in Ernie's photo above, with a comment that it didn't seem to have moved for some time. The photo in the book is dated 1961, seven years after Ernie's picture. Other photos showing the same wagon, in the same place, in the 1954-61 period, are here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253242648 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252096157 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511289621 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570935860 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511479421 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253158039 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52018071852 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52351830186 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/7544336262 There's one twist though, in these photos the wagon isn't always the same way round. So it must have moved occasionally! The wagon may be associated with servicing steam locomotives. Was it a water tank? If so, pumping a useful amount of water through that little hose would have taken some time and effort, and the capacity of the wagon would only have refilled the loco a couple of times before the wagon itself needed refilling. Lubricants would be another possibility but the tank would have held well over a year's supply!