Mol_PMB

For the early, flat-ended unfitted type in the HMRS (Charles Roberts) photos and the post immediately above, I have the following number series: 23801-23845 (built 1953), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity 23851-23890 (built 1954), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity 25001-25020 (built 1962), 17'6" LOH, 15t capacity Here's a photo of 23805: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527038 and here's 23829: The bulbous-ended bitumen tanks built for Shell were as follows: 501-510 (built 1971-2), 20' LOH, 13t tare, 18.5t capacity Here is 506, newly built at Inchicore: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511632099 They appear to have been rebuilt from 20' container flat wagons and still retain their ISO spigots on the corners of the underframe. However, the photo above also shows an RCH private owner wagon registration plate on the solebar, which proves that these tank wagons were privately owned rather than CIE-owned. This would explain why they weren't in the CIE number series. Then there were the ones with conical ends to the cladding, I think these belonged to Esso and there some information on them up-thread. I assume they were numbered in the Esso tank series 971 to 1013.

A few more of the big ones. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252071342/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508510346/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53501260495/ A bit of 15239: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255280193/ Height comparable to a Palvan; they both stand tall above the other types of van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511154776/ Another ply-skinned one, 15578: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255882812/ Here's a ply-skinned one which has been repainted with a roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613289 On the other hand, here's one of the similarly-styled but normal-sized ones. These also seem to have a different door latch and handle arrangement to the big boys, and they have the narrow plate W-irons and taller journals: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253237643/ Middle van of the near three is another normal-sized one, compared to a GNR 10t van and an H van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508655478/

Wonderful! Superb workmanship and finishing. No need to be scared of the airbrush when you can achieve that.

This is another of my random threads spawned from spending too much time on Flickr, posted here in the hope that some nuggets of information might be useful to others in future. Looking at a lot of photos from the late 1950s and early 1960s, it became apparent that filthey silver tin vans were ubiquitous, but green ones were really quite rare. I did find a few photos of green ones though, so I'll collate them in this thread. Initially I'm focusing on the luggage van variant, numbers 2700 to 2765, built in 1957 and outshopped in silver (unpainted aluminium for the body). The vast majority seem to have been allowed to get more and more filthy until the mid 1960s when they were repainted in black and tan. Most skipped the green livery phase which had been reintroduced in 1958/9 and lasted until the introduction of black and tan in 1961/2. Here are some photos of green ones I've found. 1959, definitely 2717 at Heuston: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253237378/ 1962, one was used in a special train to Ardnacrusha power station. There are lots of photos of this trip but it's always the same van, of course. I'm fairly confident it's 271# where the last digit may be 7. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454103743/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454390475 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468557251/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419891970/ 1962, number not visible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570940700/ 1963, number not visible: 1965, number not legible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251543369/ So, there was definitely 2717 in green and there may have been a few more. They were scarce though. Has anyone got any more examples? In due course I'll look at the heating van variants 3101-3152 - they were more common in green and the last batch were painted green from new.

A few more images of traditional tank wagons in Ireland, mostly of RCH types, images from Ernie and IRRS: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500839366/

From the book 'On the Move - CIE 1945-1995', a nice photo of a CIE container used on services across the Irish Sea on the Greenore-Preston route: A similar container in the background of Ernie's photo at Connolly in 1962: Edit: on the edge of this IRRS photo, one of these is shown in colour. It appears to be CIE dark green with white lettering: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511302876

A few more pics found with another trawl through Flickr - more to show how these 'Bog Boys' stood out in a train of H vans or older vans, being higher and a bit longer. Ernie's photos on Flickr: There was also a type of van that was similar in appearance but standard size. The rake of vans here includes both types - the nearest van on the extreme right-hand edge is a nortmal-sized one, whereas the one in the distance just to the right of the loco is a 'Big Boy'. Planking arrangements and styling are similar. The normal-sized ones have deeper and narrower W-irons, and the vertical ribs on the sides are closer to the ends, whereas on the 'Big Boy' the vertical ribs are further from the ends (because the ends are extended).

I've updated my table of the models produced to include the new ones, which are highlighted in bold: The IRM models are an excellent representation of the 1970 and 1972 batches and many of the new numbers are in these batches. The models are also very close to the 1967 batch, the only significant difference on these was the W irons (hard to see unless you look very closely). The 1965 batches had several differences originally but became more standardised over time. I'm looking forward to backdating a couple of the models with their older type of brakes and other details. I'm pleased to see that IRM have avoided numbers in the 1964 batch this time round as these had the most significant differences between prototype and model. There aren't any new grey ones so no chance for the gaffes committed with 25109, 25159 and 25187 in previous packs (none of these wagons were ever grey in reality). Overall I'm very pleased to see these reappear and I think there is a good selection of prototype numbers. I have duly ordered 3 packs. Thank you!

They didn't need a brake van. It was quite common for a few cement bubbles to be in the same train as container flats or fertiliser wagons, though equally they would run in a block train of cement. This photo by Colm O'Callaghan shows about the shortest train you could get away with - 4: But something like this train of 10, photo by John Law, would be more typical: See also:

Thanks. They weren't on the Description tab when I asked the question! Thanks to MOGUL for posting them here and adding them to the descriptions. Interestingly they don't tally with the numbers pictured. But we know what they are now, so that's all good. Looking back at the previous sets, all these running numbers are new and do not duplicate previous releases. Good work!

Thank you!

Sorry, me again, another question. Do you have a list of the wagon numbers for each set? Looking at the photos on the website the same photos are used to illustrate all 3 packs of each livery. The orange ones pictured are 25172 (tank 172), 25104 (tank 55, the correct number offset for the early period before the tanks were renumbered to match the wagons) and 25156 (tank 156). The ivory ones pictured are 25122 (tank 122), 25106 (tank 106) and 25115 (tank 115). Which set has these numbers and what other options have we got? Many thanks, Paul

Thank you! Quick question though - do these have 26mm or 28mm axles?

It appears that the GSWR introduced some unusually large goods vans, which survived into the 1960s and some into the 1970s. I've seen one reference where these are referred to as 'Big Boy' vans which seems appropriate even if they aren't Union Pacific Mallet locos - they are bigger than the rolling stock around them. I've gathered some photos but would welcome more information especially a drawing or a list of numbers. To illustrate the type of van I'm talking about, here's one pictured later in its life, image posted by Ernie on Flickr: They were significantly taller than the H vans and most other vans. I think they were also a bit longer, but this was exaggerated by the relatively short wheelbase and small W-irons and journals which gave them an 'elephant-on-a-skateboard' look! This HMRS photo of van 1150 dated 1907 shows an early variant with wooden body ribs; most of them had metal structural members. As far as I can tell they all had metal underframes. https://hmrs.org.uk/-abn530--10t-goods-van-gswr-1150--op--1907-r3l--open-spoke-wheels-photo-no--s-801.html This IRRS photo dated 1969 shows number 924, presumably in the same number series as 1150 above. However, 924 is the more common type with metal body framing and planked sides and ends. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511622719 The other photos I've found all seem to be in the 15000 series. Most have horizontally planked sides and ends, with vertically planked doors. Here's 15236 in 1975: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511125251 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570652283 15175 towering over an older 'convertible' van in 1957: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252992446 15279 in 1963: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257012444 15506 and 15515 in 1968: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570455881 A partial view from Ernie: (edit: removed photo of 15458 posted in error - not this type) The first photo I posted showed a van re-clad with ply, but retaining planked doors. There's a similar one here, partly hiding but nevertheless obvious owing to its height: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507606107 Has anyone got more info on these: drawings, dimensions, more photos, a model you have built? Cheers, Mol

Here's the one I was thinking of: yellow frame, white tank, rather worn Bell logo and lettering. It appears to be a leased tank with an SCXU code: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509438550 The one I posted way upthread is the only true Bell tank I've seen, in full Bell livery, and is a rather older type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419646114

The HMRS archive has some nice views of the Tar Bitumen tanks built by Charles Roberts, when new. Here's 23855 when new in 1954: [AAT037] 15T tank CIE 23855, 5' 3"gauge loaded on Flatrol 168964, ex-Works. For Tar / Bitumen traffic. 25002 in 1962: [AAU529] 14T tar bitumen tank CIE 25002 on Flatrol [OP] Chas Roberts yard 25018, also in 1962, view of the other side: [AAU532] 14T tar bitumen tank CIE 25018 on Flatrol [OP] Chas Roberts yard

The HMRS collection has a clear view of one of the first batch of wagons retaining its wheel handbrake into the mid 1980s: [ADP157] CIE 25050 cement wagon

HMRS has a photo of the Silver Princess in use in Ireland: [ACX510] Silver Princess coach The date is given as 1 September 1948 and the location as Limerick.

Also from Jonathan Allen in 1971, here's B131 without handrails along the bonnet, but with the handrails in black but a bit of the original yellow showing through: By this time I think most of the class had the full handrails along the side, but they were painted black.

This photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is an interesting one. As late as 1971, a 121 class without the handrails alongside the bonnet, but with the handrails at each end picked out in orange:

He also inhabits the vacuum cleaner, causing a strange rattle that makes you wonder 'was that the bit I dropped' when it's seconds too late to do anything about it.

If you have bored yourself to death by reading my E401 kit instructions, you will notice a few places where they say 'these parts are small and fragile so I have provided some spares on the etch'. Amazing how many kit designers don't do that, yet leave large areas of the fret blank...

I'll have to have another look through my own photos at some stage. I'm sure I've got a photo of a 201 with a longish train of Mk3 push-pull coaches somewhere between Cork and Mallow. I remember a set was regular on the Dublin-Waterford route for a while, and of course there was the short Limerick set.

Somewhere I previously found a photo of one with a white tank and Bell branding, but with a yellow framework if I recall correctly. I'm struggling to find it again! I found a few other nice Bell container shots while I was looking, but no tanks...

Interesting - many thanks, I never knew that. Was this to enable a longer train beyond the capacity of the small generator in the driving car? Or was the driving car omitted entirely? What was the maximum speed for such a train? I recall the push-pulls had a lower speed limit perhaps owing to the different bogies on most of the driving cars?