Mol_PMB

So, DJD, you should be encouraging me to buy Hunslets not Badgers! But many thanks for offering your second kidney. Are you sure you can spare it after you sold the first one?

If all goes well, on Saturday I’ll be riding behind an A. If that’s not enough to make me want to buy another, I don’t know what will… But there’s an outside chance of some for sale at the Belfast show too.

The tome ‘Locomotives of the GS&WR’ also contains several loco diagrams for the class, and some dimensions. However, the RPSi books mentioned above are probably a better bet for this particular class.

I wonder who you mean? They're also in stock at Accurascale. I'll save my cash for a C class. Or I might yet buy that secondhand green A class on eBay to give me something to haul my green Park Royals. It's about the same price but at least it would suit my theme.

I’d say the book ‘Steaming in Three Centuries’ would be a good starting point, to understand the many variations of boiler, frames, wheels, cab, tender etc in this large class. It contains several scale drawings of different variants, though these are modellers’ drawings not full-size manufacturing drawings. I imagine that some manufacturers’ drawings may still exist in their own archives (wherever they have ended up), you’re probably less likely to find Inchicore drawings. The RPSI might also be a good source of info. I imagine they have some drawings, but helping modellers isn’t their core business so you might have to build some relationships there rather than just jumping in with ‘I Need xyz’.

Very nice indeed! I look forward to building a couple of those vans myself. Regarding decals, the SSM ones are a bit translucent so tend to lose their colour on a dark background. In this case they need a white layer under the orange. Railtec are much better in that regard.

For me, the Hunslets and the 800s have much less appeal than the C class (I have ordered a Hunslet though). There were only 3 of each and they had a very restricted operational range, both in geography and time. The C class, if we include the MV class and the preserved examples, cover 70 years, there were over ten times as many of them, and a dozen different liveries. During the course of their lives they worked all over Ireland - Valentia Harbour - Ballina - Derry - Bangor - Howth - Rosslare - Dungarvan - Youghal - Skibbereen and everywhere in between. Surely these would sell? And a lot of the complex shape and details have already been worked out for the A class models. The mechanism and bogies could be closely based on the Hunslets. Not immediately, for sure, but I really hope they do appear. Sign me up for at least 4 of them.

Indeed, and here's a photo for the livery aficionado, thanks to Ernie. GSR livery and GSR-style lettering, but it says CIE. A mishmash worthy of the painters at Cultra! And this is in 1961 - was this the only vehicle to go from GSR livery to black and tan without any shade of green in between?

That is interesting, and thanks for the information. Would love to see that photo if you can find it. Tomorrow night I sail to Belfast for a few days, and will return to this thread once I'm home next week.

I agree with everything you have said except this. Some of the GSR 1930s flush-sided stock gained this scheme in the late 1940s. But I have never found a photo of CIE-built stock in this livery and I can't imagine when or why it would have occurred - the timeline is wrong. I am strongly of the belief that painting stock in the elaborate 1940s scheme with 2 thick light green bands and fine lining either side, ceased around 1950/1951 and that this change coincided with nationalisation of CIE and the introduction of the first new-build stock. I agree on the livery, but I believe that they were using a post-1950 standard unlined dark green livery, with no snails and usually no '3' class designations, the same as applied to the new builds in 1951-1952.

It's a GSWR gangwayed compartment coach of the earlier type with arc roof and full panelling, probably built around 1900-1915 period. From the corridor side (which we see here) it's not so easy to tell the different classes apart. It looks like a third, which would have become a second (as shown) in 1956. Is that number 1124? Some vehicles of this basic type survived to get black and tan livery, and some were through-wired for use with AEC railcars.

As you may have spotted I'm skirting round the subject of the AEC railcars, with threads on trailers, tail traffic and wedgeheads. I'll get to the main subject eventually... 2625 and 2638 had striped roofs - I have found several photos of each of them. Another oddball was 2633 which had the external exhaust pipe on the front. My impression with the dark green livery is that CIE spent the years 1945-1950 painting all the carriages they inherited into the dark green with two thick light bands, with finer lining each side, snails and class designations on every door. I'm 99% certain this only applied to inherited stock, never on new build (there weren't any new build carriages in this period). Then in 1950, CIE was nationalised, a new board took over, they finally had a budget, and there were some policy changes. This led directly to the ordering of the AEC railcars and starting construction of new coaching stock. At the same time, the livery was modernised/simplified, initially very plain dark green*, no lining at all, no snail, no 3 class designations (though 1 was still applied to first class). Soon the waist line was added to match the railcars, but there weren't any snails on carriages in this livery, nor 3 class designations. This simplified livery was applied to almost all the new stock up to around 1955 and a little later in some cases. Photos indicate that the simplified dark green livery was also applied to some older stock, perhaps a few vehicles repainted in 1945/46 were in need of a further repaint by 1952/53. When I write about the pre-CIE railcar trailers we'll see some examples of that. I agree that some of the railcars seem to have got a lighter shade of green quite early, perhaps 1953/54, as did a few of their trailers. Some sources suggest that this was an experiment and that several shades of light/bright green were tried out at this time. Photos indicate that some were later repainted in dark green (caveat: could be date errors on photos placing them in the wrong sequence). What happened next in 1956 was that the livery for new stock changed to unpainted aluminium. (However, the Wedgehead railcars entered traffic in 1957 in dark green.) Obviously the aluminum skin couldn't be readily applied to most existing coaches and it seems that a 'standardised' light green became standard for repaints of older stock at this time. However, many coaches would have retained their older shades of green for some years. Also in 1956, third class was redesignated second, and 2 class digits were added on the new repaints as well as painted retrospectively on some older liveries. Bulleid retired in May 1958 which opened the door to replacing the silver/aluminium livery on both locos and coaches. Inchicore seems to have been keen to be rid of it, and a lot of locos and carriages were repainted in the new light green from 1958. * I am not 100% convinced that the shade of green was exactly the same as previously - it often looks a bit lighter and a bit browner than the 1940s shade but that may be caused by different undercoat, more modern paint formulation, less weathering, different lighting, better colour film etc. It could have been nominally the same shade.

Brief Intermission So far I have described and illustrated the various types of 1950s CIE built coaches, which were introduced around the same time as the AEC railcars and through-wired to work with them. A total of 60 coaches of this era were through-wired according to the list I'm using as a basis for this thread. There were several other batches of coaches built by CIE in the 1950s of which none were through-wired and hence are not included in the posts above: 2130-2136 compartment composite 2137-2161 compartment composite 1419-1428 main line Park Royal open second 1429-1443 open second 1444-1448 open second 1449-1496 open second 1909-1913 brake open second None of the heating, luggage or TPO vans were through-wired either. There remain several other groups of coaches that were through-wired to work with the AEC railcars. I'll look at these in the coming posts, but they can be summarised as follows: Ten 1960s coaches, listed as being through-wired but as yet I have found no photos of any of them in railcar sets. Ten old catering cars or saloons built by CIE's predecessors (GSWR, DSER, GSR), mostly used in railcar sets for just a couple of years until the CIE buffets entered service. Ten old passenger coaches built by CIE's predecessors (GSWR, GSR), some of which remained in use as railcar trailers surprisingly late. However, there will be a pause for a week or so before I resume this thread to look at those groups. You'll probably welcome a break from my diatribes.

On ebay, I spotted a photo of the above, and another project idea https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396960256427 A yellow shed on wheels, a black and tan shed on wheels, and a plain vanilla shed!

Suburban Composites 2163-2169 In 1957, a batch of ten suburban composite coaches were built, numbered 2162-2171. These were of ‘laminate’ construction with the sides formed from aluminium-faced ply and the cross-members of laminated timber. They were delivered in unpainted aluminium ‘silver’ livery with the vehicle numbers and class designations in red. Of this group, only four carriages are listed as being through-wired to work with the AEC railcars: 2163, 2165, 2166, 2169. I think these were the only true ‘laminates’ that could work as railcar intermediates. They were introduced at the same time that first class seating was removed from the suburban AEC railcars so wiring these vehicles may have been necessary to provide both classes in suburban railcar trains. The underframes were of the triangulated design used under the Park Royals and the later buffet cars already described. The welded trusses were set behind the solebar, with the battery boxes and some diagonal braces in front of them. Commonwealth bogies were fitted, and originally the underframes and bogies were painted silver. The body had 5 bays of 2+2 first class seats, and 3 bays of rather cramped 3+3 second class seats. Doors opened into vestibules at each end and near the middle between the classes. No toilets were fitted. The body had the classic ‘laminate’ profile of a very wide bulbous-looking body. Whilst not in a railcar train, this photo from Ernie is an excellent illustration of the type in original livery, slightly grubby by 1959: One of these vehicles in a railcar set can be seen in original unpainted livery towards the distant end of this train: Other photos of these vehicles in railcar sets in their original unpainted livery can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256771121 And in these two book references: Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.2 p25 IRRS Journal no.187 p279 I have not yet found any photos of these coaches in railcar sets carrying later liveries such as green or black and tan. In 1970 all 10 vehicles were rebuilt into brake seconds 1914 to 1923; I assume that they lost their through-wiring during the rebuild as these vehicle numbers are not in the list of wired coaches and I have not found any photos of them in railcar sets.

This is what FOMO looks like:

Roadkill?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396943187641 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236242734454 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365773907754 All these three come up on my search and all are on the island of Ireland, though only one south of the border. Interesting to hear that they go quickly on Adverts.ie. Of course it may be a matter of price. I did wonder if Wrenneire might have a few in the stash! I almost wish I'd kept my old Q kits resin bodyshell from decades ago.

You've got to be significantly better than the existing product from Silver Fox or there's not much point. There are certainly areas for improvement in shape, reliability, robustness and livery. The desired standard for new locos these days (lights, sound, reliable mechanism, simple DCC interface etc) requires a lot more development and skill than just getting the bodyshell shape and details right (which previous C class models have mostly failed on). And a lot more investment up front before you get to a production run of saleable quality. IRM have said a C class will happen eventually, I'm willing to wait but will keep encouraging them along the way.

I wouldn't say there's no demand, the secondhand ones that come up for sale do sell, but it takes a while. They often hang around for a few weeks or more, so it's not as if people are rushing to buy them. Prices tend to be broadly comparable with original sale price so they're not bargain bin material, nor are they raising R@RE! collectable prices. I guess most Irish modellers bought enough for their needs when they first came out, and the number of people getting in to Irish modelling (like myself) is roughly balanced by the people selling off their collections. My understanding is that the sales of Hunslets and Queens have been good, perhaps as a result of cross-promotion from the Accurascale brand, so perhaps when those arrive we will see a surge in modellers looking to build an Irish collection or layout. For the new entrant to Irish modelling, one of the challenges is that at any one time, the availability of IRM locos and rolling stock doesn't provide a prototypical train. For example, IRM currently have Hunslets and Queens on pre-order, but the only IRM coaching stock available is Park Royals which don't suit either of those locos*. The range of wagons presently available is only marginally suitable for either loco type and there's no brake van (freight or passenger) to complete the trains. So you need to have patience or to scour the secondhand market, or to broaden your horizons to the smaller manufacturers and cottage-industry kits. Nothing wrong with that but it raises the bar to new entrants to Irish modelling and perhaps discourages purchases of the flagship locos? It will be interesting to see how the re-run of the cement bubbles sells. These were some of the most iconic Irish freight wagons and had become hard to find secondhand (but not impossible - I've picked up 3 sets of 3 over the past year at prices comparable to new ones). They might be a good weathervane to see if the trade winds are favourable for an A-class re-run. * Potentially there was a very short time-overlap of Queens and Park Royals. And if you throw away the body, you can prototypically couple the triangulated underframe of a Park Royal behind a Hunslet as an NIR PW flat. These are very niche applications, but my OCD feels the need to mention them.

I've bought 3 in the past year from various sources secondhand, and I'm not looking for any more - if I was I could have bought any livery of my choice over that period (though not perhaps all options of running number). There are 3 on ebay at the moment, including green and silver liveries. Rails of Sheffield had a batch of a dozen or so about 6 months ago, all liveries, but all now sold. Ellis Clark have them occasionally. Stoby has sold a few on here too.

Did Ireland have any ten-coupled locos? I can think of only 5 eight-coupled ones, mostly on the narrow gauge but there's one suitable for Portadown.

The A class are not too hard to pick up secondhand at present, with a bit of patience. Considering that the Park Royals are nominally suburban coaches, they would go much better with one of these... Or some of these... (photos linked from Flickr, by Jonathan Allen and Ernie)

Exciting times for you! My resolve is holding strong at present, despite seeing both the models and the real thing in Derby recently. This month's budget has mostly been blown on house maintenance and a long weekend in Belfast. I'll have to be patient with IRM as they have a lot on at present, but of course I already have a backlog of projects in the stash and hopefully some new antipodean kits to build soon.

I think a real elephant would be more appropriate there!