Mol_PMB

While waiting for some paint to dry on the H van chassis, I'm having a go at voiding the warranty on a bubble. So far, it has come apart fairly easily with the only major problem being the brake safety loops - which I won't need for the 1965 batch bubble which this will become.

I have spent some more time peering at this NLI photo dated June 1967. https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306218: The first two wagons definitely have a long brake lever extending past the vee hanger, and so they are from the 1967 batch. That would explain why they're so clean - they are almost brand new. Now, look at the underframe - it's a pale colour, apparently matching the tank. Being new, the wagons are clean and the colour hasn't been influenced by weathering. It's definitely not black. I've had a look through more books and my back-issues of IRRS journals (not a complete set by any means) and found a couple more useful photos of grey bubbles. The book '35 Years of NIR' (Allen) page 92 has a colour photo at Portadown dated June 1968, showing BUT railcars on the Enterprise with a long rake of grey bubbles adjacent. Although the photo is at an awkward angle looking along the train, parts of the underframe of the nearest wagon are clearly visible and sun-lit. They are grey, matching the tank colour. I can't quite tell whether that bubble is from the 1965 or 1967 batch (it's not a 1964). The IRRS Journal October 2013 issue - vol 25 no.182 - has a colour photo on p384 showing A40 and B161 hauling a rake of grey bubbles (and brake van) off the Foynes loop at Limerick. The photo is undated but must pre-date A40's re-engining in 1969. Most of the bubbles have moderate weathering, but there's one towards the back of the train that stands out as having a clean grey underframe, and it appears to be a 1967 batch (again it's a bit indistinct). So, I'm coming to the conclusion that the 1967 batch were indeed delivered in grey, but it was all-over grey - no black underframe. The IRM models of grey bubbles all have black underframes. Ernie's photo of 25068 looks like good evidence of black underframes on the 1964 batch of wagons: I'm now undecided about the underframe colour for the 1965 batch! It must be said that after a bit of weathering from cement dust and brake dirt, the original colour of the underframe is rather hard to distinguish in most photos, especially monochrome images. Perhaps a good dose of weathering on the models is the answer! Here are two colour photos of a whole train of grey bubbles in the 1960s, which give no useful information on underframe paint colour! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449790845/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257011099/ Another whole-train photo from the IRRS archive, dated 'm1960s' but I think it's 1969/70 based on A31's livery. Not very useful for wagon livery details though: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447019558/ Another 'm1960s' photo. A 1965-batch bubble is in the background, already looking pretty grubby: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447018728/ So far, I haven't found a colour photo that clearly shows a mixture of original grey and orange liveries. Seems odd, it must have happened in the livery transition period. The liveries can be hard to distinguish in monochrome photos though. I'd better get back to some modelling rather than just researching the next project. Hopefully someone else has some late 1960s bubble photos that would confirm the liveries of each batch?

Thanks to ebay and @Stoby of this parish, I now have a full set of IRM grey bubbles - only two packs were produced in this livery: From left to right, we have 25069, 25083, 25084, 25109, 25159, 25187. All the IRM bubbles are the same moulding, which accurately represents the later batches (delivered in 1970-1972), but the early grey ones had some detail differences. Of course there's nothing I like more than destroying the value of collectable models by modifying and weathering them, so I'll be working on these fairly soon to back-date their details. The brakes are the biggest difference but there are many other detail adjustments needed. And of course I need to re-gauge them which isn't so straightforward on these early IRM models. In preparation for that I've been reviewing the available photos of grey bubbles and I thought I'd just summarise the findings here (some of it repeats links earlier in this thread, but I have found some more). As correctly modelled by IRM, the 'BULK CEMENT' lettering is white on the grey bubbles, which helps to distinguish the grey livery in black and white photos. There's also the date as a clue, of course. In the IRRS archive, a photo at Inchicore dated February 1964 with what must one of the first bubbles, still in primer I think: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734117 From the NLI O'Dea collection, a bulk cement train (mix of 1964 and 1965 batches) at Straffan in 1965 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306759 From the IRRS archive, two photos of a pair of bubbles at Boyne Road in 1966. The nearer one is 25074 of the 1965 batch, and the other is from the 1964 batch: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508783939 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508466241/ From the IRRS archive, a bulk cement train at Hazelhatch in 1966. The wagons are a mix of the 1964 and 1965 batches: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54327467196/ From the NLI O'Dea collection, a photo of 25062 (1964 batch) at Derry in 1967 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307375 From the NLI O'Dea collection, a bulk cement train (the nearer four are all from the 1965 batch, including 25083) at KIldare in 1967 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306704 From the NLI O'Dea collection, a bulk cement train (mix of 1964 and 1965 batches, possibly the two clean ones at the front might be 1967 batch?) at Hazelhatch in 1967 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306218 Other NLI and IRRS photos with distant views of bulk cement trains in 1967, few details visible: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306208 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306209 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307373 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306207 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570455706/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447301180/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257011099 From Ernie on Flickr, a super pair of colour photos at Belfast GVS in April 1967. The wagon immediately behind the locos is 25068 (1964 batch) and the remainder are a mix of the 1964 and 1965 batches: There's also a colour photo of a grey bubble at Derry in 1967 in the 'UTA in Colour' (Young) book, page 66 Another colour photo in the IRRS archive showing Cabra in February 1968. Only 3 bubbles are visible, all rather distant but all grey: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510447552/ A black and white photo of Cabra also in 1968: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511485009/ So then, we've got up to the year 1968, and very confident that the 1964 and 1965 batches carried the grey livery initially. Not so sure about the 1967 batch based on the evidence above, many of the photos pre-date their construction. Can anyone confirm? I haven't found any bubble photos dated 1969, but there are lots of them in 1970, maybe because they changed colour. In June 1970, here's 25129 of the 1970 batch being painted for the first time. Most of the tank is still in primer, with its delivery address stencilled on and even bearing the name of the ship it crossed the water on! But the tank is being painted orange and the underframe grey. So the 1970 batch never carried the original grey tank and black underframe livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570447106 But it wasn't just the new ones that were orange. Here are 25051 and 25053, from the 1964 batch, each with a coat of orange in May 1970: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510419397/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511314086/ From Jonathan Allen on Flickr, a whole train in orange in October 1970, and this includes wagons from the 1964 batch as well as newer types: Again from Jonathan Allen, this rake contains 1964, 1965 and 1967 or 1970 wagons in orange, photo dated December 1970: By the early 1970s everything was orange: So, it seems that there was a major (and surprisingly rapid) repainting campaign in 1969-1970, the older wagons becoming orange, and the newly built wagons in 1970 and 1972 entering service in orange. That sets my grey rake firmly in the 1960s, and requires me to back-date the details to the 1964 and 1965 batches, maybe also the 1967 batch as I haven't quite confirmed if they entered service in grey or orange.

As long as the horse remained attached to a goods van full of gubbins, I reckon it could be done in 7mm scale. Especially if the layout was lit so that links between the van and the horse were partly in shadow, just like this (also one of Ernie's):

Yes, the IRM customer service humans are wonderful and very much appreciated. Thank you! i did have a run-in with their AI when it started lying to me, and then made up more lies to try and cover its tracks! Hopefully that experiment has stopped now.

As ever, I am trying to do too many things at once! When I’ve got this batch of vans finished, I ought to go back to some of my unfinished projects like E407, two more wooden open wagons and the 20’ flat wagons. But I’ve also got six secondhand IRM cement bubbles in stock, all grey ones, and all wrong, needing some attention to backdate them to what bubbles really did look like when they were grey. They are calling me to rip them apart, regauge and modify to make them right! My OCD is troubled… Maybe in a couple of weeks time I’ll deal with the bubbles and create a nice mid-60s cement train.

Inspired! They look superb. It’s amazing what natural materials can offer to the modeller, this is great inspiration to the rest of us. Thank you!

Interesting. 18778 was one of the supposedly green ones (at one time), though whether it actually was painted green is far from certain. There's another shot of the same van on the same day here, which shows that it has lost its vac pipe (despite still saying vav brake on the side) and has also lost its end ventilator hood. A fair few patches on the bodywork too! I may well renumber the two that have so far retained their IRM numbers, and 18778 with its painted brake wheel might be a good candidate. Some of these vans also received strips across the roof in later life and I might do that modification on the brown one - photos show 18731 ended up in that condition. The nearly black ones were scarce but I have identified three in photos, here's 18861 which I have chosen to model:

A van of many colours - the IRM 'H': While I continue working on regauging the underframes I have also been repainting and lettering some of the bodies. These still need some matt varnish and then the weathering will begin. 17053 will ride on the conventional underframe I built from Parkside parts (so it's no longer an H) while I plan to scratchbuild a new body for the spare underframe, to represent one of the 15 H vans converted to a Palvan prototype.

Is that ‘Dick’ the mare? When DCC horses are eventually available I rather fancy modelling the Shannon Vale Mill operation, also wonderfully illustrated in Ernie’s archive.

Well to be honest it's more a room of shame than a cupboard!

As RTR products fill ever more niches, and the modern technologies like 3D printing become more capable, I guess the more traditional suppliers (many of more advancing years) are calling it quits. It's going to make life more difficult for those of us that like to make or modify things ourselves. Lanarkshire Models is another supplier that's closed its doors this week, fortunately just after they had sent me a package of wagon buffers and other detailing parts.

Though the website does say it was last updated in 2023! I bought a kit from Allen a few months back, and it was delivered very promptly so must have been in stock. Though I guess many items are etched to order. To be honest I don't really need anything else he offers, I was idly mulling over a laminate or AEC railcars but I suspect IRM will produce them before I ever get round to putting the kits together!

That’s fine, the same could be said of the contents of my cupboard of shame! The unbuilt kits must run into 3 figures!

Thanks Colin. From the point of view of buying individual kits rather than ranges of artwork, do you know whether he is still trading at present, maybe a transition period of selling off what’s in stock, or has he shut down already?

Nice idea! I look forward to seeing what transpires.

Good question. It's brass and I think these are 2mm ID 3mm OD. They look a bit chunky but are stronger than the 2mm ID 2.5mm OD. Of course you can re-use the IRM axles but in my experience not the wheels, as the tread is too wide to get a 19.2mm BTB. The IRM axles from these vans will be re-wheeled (with Gibson EM wheels) and probably turn up under my next wagon project.

Indeed, it’s a lot more work than the unfitted versions, which is why I thought a description of what I did might be useful. The first one I did, I took way too many bits off that I didn’t need to. Overall, it’s not too bad to convert, and there’s much less to do if the buffers don’t bother you.

Thanks - yes please - it would be good to know the exact shade that was used. I tried buying some Precision Paints CIE green but it turned out to be the dark green. I’ll get a photo of the model in daylight, as the apparent shade varies in different lighting. This one will only be lightly weathered but no doubt that will influence the colour slightly too.

I was looking at the triangular area bounded by the old WLWR loco works, the slightly newer wagon works, and the fuelling point and main lines. The advantage of a works is you can justify all sorts of things turning up. Including the Taras! But the Navan branch sounds a good option too. I don’t know it so well.

Thanks - that helps a lot! I was wondering if it was Irish or a mix. Smallish bogie locos then, which will be important in setting the length of any headshunts. Given that a loco and 2 carriages would fill about half the length of the space available, I don't think passenger operations are really feasible in the space available, unless a single or 2-car railcar. With freight, a shunting layout is certainly possible, but if you want to run round a train and have a fiddle yard it will fit in, then the maximum train length would be quite short. A sector plate or traverser fiddle yard would be a major space-saver. I looked at doing a shunting layout based on part of Limerick Wagon Works which was about the same footprint you have.

On the workbench, something green is occurring... Packers for the buffers Fitted to the chassis, ready for the buffers to be refitted in front: This will be painted black once complete. The body is unmodified except a coat of paint. In the absence of any better ideas I'm using Southern Railway Malachite to represent 1960s CIE light green. Maybe Bulleid brought some with him? Almost ready for transfers now.

Why not post a few pictures of the stock you have to give us some inspiration? At the moment the possibilities are so broad that it's hard to develop any suggestions.

Do you already have the stock, and what sort of era/prototype is it? I ask because what is achievable within the space and operationally interesting will depend on the length of the rolling stock you're using, and the type of facilities it would use. The space you have isn't really long enough to do much interesting with passenger trains formed of bogie coaches, but there could be much more operational interest if it's a freight yard with 4-wheel wagons.

Next, drill out the buffer holes to 1.5mm, then stick the buffer bodies back in place, making sure they are straight and square. Add a pair of 21mm gauge wheelsets to assist in positioning the brakes. Then, you can re-instate the brake hangers, into their new holes. I didn't stick them in place just yet. As you can see, the regauging has left a gap in the middle of each brake cross-stretcher. I chose to cut some 20mm lengths of wire and glue them across this gap - it's not a perfect solution but I don't think anyone's going to be looking too closely when the wagon is in service. Whilst gluing these, if necessary you can tweak the position of the brake hangers so that they don't touch the wheels. A dab of glue on the tops of the brake hangers will secure them in the right place. Make sure the wheels spin freely. (pic) I decided not to reinstate the links across the axles - they're almost invisible from normal viewing angles and they prevent the wheels being removed. Now to the buffer heads. The buffer shanks may have become partly blocked by glue. If so, use a 0.7mm drill (exactly) drill to clear them out. Then push the buffers (with springs) firmly back into place. Now check the fit of the body corner stanchions over the repositioned buffers. It may necessary to file a little material off them to achieve a good fit. Then re-fit the body, which is harder than you might think and the guitar pick will help. If any other small bits have fallen off, stick them back on. There's a little bit of paintwork to touch up, otherwise it's done.