Mayner

In a "Decade of Steam" on CIE in the 1950s Drew Donaldson, Jack O'Neill and Bill McDonnell RPSI 1974 the authors wrote about Cork (Shed) painting a number of steam locos during the late 50s/early 60s in Grey with black smokeboxes including a no of J15s and an ex MGWR Standard Goods. I have mislaid the page with the numbers many moons ago. CIE retained steam for seasonal Beet Traffic and for shunting and pilot duties until April 1964. Cork's final allocation included J15 118, J9 251, J4 262, Bandon Tank 463 & MGWR small tank 560. 261 & 262 would have been useful for working Beet Specials from the Youghal Branch to the Mallow factory being larger and more powerful locomotives (approx 20%) than a J15 or a 1948 CIE motive power assessment "I would like to see half of the 101 (J15) Class scrapped and many other stray Goods classes and replaced by this design (257/J4 Class).

OO Works comment that in later years most superheated locos ran with large and saturated locos ran with small tenders is not strictly speaking correct. The larger tenders tended to be allocated to bot superheated and saturated locos rostered on long distance work (Shipping Specials and long distance goods trains). The pool of large tenders available to work with J15s was fairly limited mainly from scrapped 4-4-0 Classes, and 4-6-0s. It looks like the OO Works loco is based on 186 which is paired with what appears to be a Type C tender used with the larger 4-4-0, 0-6-0, 2-6-0 and 4-6-0 locos introduced from the early 1900s 124 at Thurles 1964 118 Rosslare Harbour (post 57) 181 Cork 1956 133 Carrigaloe 1955 184 Amiens St 1961 183 Waterford 1955 All going well I hope to complete my 21mm gauge superheated J15 from a modified SSM kit by 2030

Enjoyed the Welshpool video my favourite Welsh narrow gauge line after the WHR. First visited the line in 1980 tramped nearly 3miles from Welshpool to Sylfyn station and back to catch the train as the line did not reach Raven Square for another year, doubt I would be capable of walking that distance these days. Rode behind Hunslet No 14 , a lot in common with WHR Russell, or a scaled down Dingle loco! Interesting to see an Austrian 0-6-2T at Sylfyn, the Welshpool & Llanfair was built to follow the contours with minimal earthworks and sharp curves similar to another 2'6" gauge line the Mariazellerbahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariazell_Railway. which we discovered in 2003 including an operational Engert 0-8-4T

The different approach in taken by the GNR and NCC towards railcar development during the 30s & 40s may be as a result of existing agreements with AEC, Gardiner Engines and Leyland for the supply of engines and transmission parts. The GNR appears to have been an AEC & Gardiner company and the NCC a Leyland company. The NCC would have deeper pockets than the GNR which would have allowed York Road to experiment with railcar design while the GNR used proven technology with Atkinson-Walker and AEC/Park Royal after its experiments with railcars A & B The GNR appear to have been an AEC & Gardiner company in terms of its road fleet, while the GSR and NCC were UTA companies NCC Railcar No 1 the progenitor of the British Rail 1st generation DMU survives in RPSI care at Whitehead https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/42/railcar-1, York Road continued to be innovative while using a "make do and mend" approach converting existing coaches into diesel railcars under UTA ownership during the 1950s and 60s. The MEDs basically became the proof of concept for the British Rail 1st generation DMUs the MPDs the prototype for the second generation DMUs including NIRs CAFs and IEs 22000 Intercity railcars. The UTA engineers were limited by the limitations of existing engine and transmission technology and having to kitbash their new trains out of existing 'donor" coaches in a similar manner to Darius and Colm Flanagan converting Airfix, Dapol and GMR coaches to AEC Railcars 5-6, MED and MPD units.

Its hard to believe that I started this thread just over four years ago and should keep my occupied until Christmas 2030 (if I am still around and capable) at my present rate of progress having just about completed 1 of the 3 J15s. I had planned to finish several CIE Bulleid 4w Vans before resuming work on the J15s but had to put the vans on the backburner as I appear to have mislaid my stock of van decals. Back to the J15s the "Grey Engine" is still awaiting buffer heads, vac pipes, number plates, coal load and couplers (B&B) 229 and the Z boilered loco spent the last 18 months waiting their turn in the Works. Missing parts including tenders and misc. castings used to complete a pair of 52 Class locomotives, Inchacore was a great advocate of standardisation. I have one 1804 gal. tender kit in stock and will probably build a couple of 2730 gal tenders to run with the (saturated) locos rostered to Limierick-Sligo passenger and goods trains. There is a photo of 229 with a 2730 gal tender of an "Overload Goods" at Ballycar and another saturated J15 with a 2730 gal tender approaching Collonney Junction on a Limerick-Sligo goods (saturated locos consumed more water and coal per mile than an equivalent superheated loco) The first task is to short out a driving wheel on each axle in order to convert the wheel sets to live axle pick-up I used to use soft brass wire but etched some "spider" last year to produce a more user friendly solution I carefully opened up the hole in the boss with a tapered broach to allow a tight sliding fit on the axle. I use a small cross locking clamp from Micro Mark as a clamp and heat sink while soldering the legs of the spider to the wheel rim. I use a 145° solder with a phosphoric acid flux which eliminates the risk of the steel wheel tyre rusting. I ran into a snag with the High Level "Load Haulier+" gearboxes originally supplied to motorise the kits as the gearbox carriage is too wide (even in 21mm gauge) for my preferred option of using hornblock bearings on the driven axle to allow all wheel sets to be dropped out for painting and maintenance. Fortunately I had two "Road Runner+" gearboxes with a 60:1 reduction in stock similar to the gearbox used in the 'grey engine" I ran into trouble soldering some of the detail parts that had become damaged/displaced during the past 18 months as I find it difficult to carry out fine work or hold a soldering iron steady as I get older. I screwed a small piece of stripwood to the assembly block as a temporary support while attempting a repair on the sandbox operating rods. 229 Starting to look like a locomotive . I replaced the sandbox operating rod on this side with one of the original brake pull rods as the sandbox operating rod on this side was quite badly distorted. Next job is to set up the driving wheels and gearboxes for both locos, then review the CAD work for the Z boiler conversion.

The bogie fertiliser wagons were originally fitted with steel mesh doors and nicknamed "Long Kesh" wagons after the Long Kesh internment camp (Maze Prison) opened in 1972. Its possible CIE built at least one train of wagons with mesh doors before changing to ply sheeting because the Long Kesh wagon nickname appeared to be common at the time. The change to sheet metal or ply was likely to have been an attempt to reduce the risk of bags bursting and the wagon becoming unstable in the event of the load shifting, a fairly common problem with wagons carrying palletised loads

Railcar A was basically an experimental railcar with a driving cab at each end originally powered by an AEC engine mainly used on the Scarva-Banbridge line. Railcar B similar in appearance to A was diesel electric apparently unsuccessful. Railcar F & G were lightweight diesel trains with Atkinson Walker power units used mainly in GNR day on Dublin suburban trains and the final development of the GNR-Atkinson Walker railcar. Diesel Dawn provides a detailed history of Irish diesel railcar and locomotive development and includes drawings and photos of the different GNR railcars.

The Silver Fox CIE coaches are based on conventional coaches built at Inchacore during the early 1950s and were quite different in appearance to the Laminate coaches built during the late 50s. While reasonable models (the coaches), Silver Fox omitted the raised detailing on the sides a distinctive feature of early CIE coaching stock. Going back to travelling between Ireland and the UK. I used to travel by boat and train after moving from Dublin to London during the mid 80s was fine if you had plenty of time and were able to take the day time Mail Boat sailings arriving in Dublin or London early-evening or late afternoon. A couple of times I was foolish enough to take the evening sailing from Dun-Laoire and the overnight train arriving bleary eyed in London at around 5:30-6:00 intending to start work at 07:30 but ended up going home and crashing out! London-Holyhead was enjoyable on particularly on weekends not very crowded comfortable MK2 (E)? coaches, cheerful Buffet Car staff and interesting diversions round Brum. and Northwitch due to engine works on the WCML, had one night mare trip on a hot sunny afternoon in the opposite direction, Buffet Car ran out of water and soft drinks at Bangor then blocked for an hour at Hollywell Junction when we discovered the A/C ventilation system was not working. Very fast running and no delays after Holywell Junction Buffet Car re-stocked at Crew. Flew Heathrow-Dublin with Aer Lingus/BA a few times at Christmas, I started flying Luton-Dublin when budget airlines entered the market a couple of years later, I had a job with a company car and it was simpler and less hassle to drive to the airport or Holyhead than take the Tube and BR. I was allowed use the car for non-business use including the holidays and exploring the UK from Cornwall to the Highlands with the odd trip to Ireland in the days before a company car became a serious tax liability. These days I am highly reluctant to fly, though until fairly recently it was basically turn up and go for internal flights in New Zealand, but you needed to allow half a day to check in for an international flight.

I had a similar experience with a taxi driver on my first visit to Sydney with the other half who spent many years in the City and was determined to take me round all her old haunts. We arrived at Central station from the Airport had morning tea in a pub near the station and hailed a cab for Surry Hills, the very grumpy driver drove us about 1000 yards to our destination (another pub).

Interesting the two steam cranes in the exchange sidings possibly a tandem lift transferring locos between the broad and narrow gauge.

A lot depends on whether you want to get something up and running quickly using readily available models or you are more interested in model making (building models from scratch, kits or modifying rtr model The quickest way to get started in 21mm gauge would be to work to EM standard using re-gauge Murphy Models GM diesels or IRM A Class and IRM bogie wagons, before attempting a kit or scratch building. Modelling the MGWR is going to be challenging and involve a lot of scratchbuilding as no suitable rtr models and very few kits are available. The SSM MGWR convertible wagon would be a good starting point for metal kit assembly, I have produced JM Design etched kits for the MGWR K Class 2-4-0 in late MGW condition, a MGWR Horsebox and a MGWR Fish/Meat Van. I would not recommend an etched loco to an inexperienced builder, it took me several years (trial and error) to acquire the skill, experience and tools to assemble a loco or coach kit to a reasonable standard and I am still learning. Modifying a OO Gauge rtr loco like a Bachmann Pom-Pom or SECR C to 21mm gauge is going to be extremely challenging as there is likely to be insufficient running clearance between the coupling rods and loco body, clearance is tight even with brass kits designed for 21mm gauge such as the TMD/SSM Midland Tank or GNR S class. Another constrict with 21mm gauge is that it can be challenging to fit a 21mm gauge layout in a restricted space as minimum radius curves are larger than in OO and points tend to be longer as shown in Kens comparison of a 21mm gauge B6 and Peco small radius point

The C&L 4-4-0T was originally announced by Accuracraft UK in 2019 but seemed to have disappeared off the radar during the past 3 years with the Lawley and a number of British outline locos jumping the queue. It looks like the loco may actually appear this time Accuracraft are accepting pre-orders on their main (USA) site. I placed an expression of interest in a C&L 4-4-0 with the local distributor in 2019, it will be interesting if they follow up.

The pick up system used by OO Works picking up power through the loco on one side with the return through the tender or the "American" system was commonly used for tender locomotives. It would be worth while converting the bogie wheels to live axle pick up by fitting "Shorting out Brushes" part 4M52 available from Alan Gibson Works sales@alangibsonworkshop.com or by leaving a message for Colin Seymour on 0044-161-679-1607 The best option to improve running and pulling power is to add weight to the tender and modify the drawbar to transfer weight from the front of the tender to the rear of the loco using 'the weighted tender' system. The simplest step would be to add weight to the cab to check whether it improves running before carrying out modifications to the tender or drawbar. Locos with metal chassis and gearing like the OO Works locos require some 'running in' preferably on a continuous run to allow bearings and gearing to bed in to achieve reliable running as there is less in built slop than rtr diesels with plastic gearing. MGWR 2-4-0 with Weighted Tender weights in front of boiler, below motor and front of tender. Chassis schematic rigid drawbar and floating leading and center axle tender Location of weight in tender. The 2-4-0 continually hauled 21 IRM 4w wagons on test

Re-powering a Duetz. I built a G611 Class Deutz from a Worsley Works set of parts powered by a Black Beetle motor bogie several years ago, and recently decided to replace the motor bogie with a conventional chassis with a coreless motor driving 2 stage gearing to allow for a more realistic top speed for a shunting locomotive. The Duetz is supplied with a neat 21mm gauge fold up chassis I decided to use the Worsley Works chassis as a template for a scratchbuilt OO gauge chassis using O.4mm nickel silver strip and turned OO gauge frame spacers supplied with a SSM loco kit. First task was to cut two strips over length, thin and solder the strips together before drilling out pilot holes for the axles in the Unimat set as a vertical drill. I then used the Worsley Works chassis as a template for scribing the final frame profile cutting with a razor saw I also used the pillar drill to drill the pilot holes for the frame spacers before separating the two strips of nickel silver Assembled main frames motor and High Level Gear box cradles I am planning to use two High Level Road Runner Compact gearboxes with 60:1 gearing through a layshaft powered by "Tender Riser" with 1:1 step down gearing, I used similar drive systems to power as an Impetus Ruston & Hornsby 88 DS loco during the 1990s. I carried out a test assembly of the chassis to make sure the drive components fitted before soldering the frame spacers in place. Luckily the motor fits within the bonnet/engine housing with space to add some weight. I designed the chassis with one fixed and one rocking axle to improve power pick up. the "rocking axle" is designed to pivot in the gear cradle around the layshaft, it will be interesting to see if it actually works in practice! Its likely to take some time before I can test the chassis under power. I need to source some 2mm-1.5mm brass tube from the UK to sleeve the motor shaft the nylon gears supplied by high level are 2mm bore, which should give me time to find the cab roof, complete the glazing and locate some large diameter buffer heads.

The "suspension" and closing of Cavan Branch passenger services was more to do with CIE replacing loss making branch line passenger services with its own road services, than an an effect of partition. Meath Line, Tullow and Cavan Branch passenger services all ceased in 1947 while the GNR continued to operate a relatively frequent Belfast-Clones-Cavan passenger service (4 each way daily) until the closure of the Border Lines in 1957

Anthony Burges described CIE's Inny Junction-Cavan line as a 'mouldering branch line" in his pictorial book Railways in Ulster's Lakelands (Colourpoint) which covers the GNR(I), CIE & SLNCR. The Crossdoney photo certainly captures this run-down atmosphere.

Victors of Islington (USA & Continental model railway shop) had a 'special offer" for a bundle of American (N gauge) freight cars that was more expensive than buying the same number of cars at the individual price. A fair proportion of new customers would select the "special" assuming it would work out cheaper than buying the same number of cars at the normal price. Shop staff used to get a great kick out of asking customers who wanted to pay for the 'special offer' if they could add up.

My first real introduction to "bad language" was from a shunter (busy making up a train) shouting to the signalman at North Wall Granary Cabin to change some points. I was in my late teens at the time working as a trainee engineer/foreman on a construction site at the time so not exactly unfamiliar with strong language One day possibly during a Bank or Postal strike I was told to take the bus into town and go to the Burmah Oil on Alexandra Rd and pay our account (diesel & lube). Needless to say I walked it from Amiens St checking out the Midland and Holyhead Yards before checking out the Granaries from Church Rd Bridge before walking along East Wall Rd to enter the Port, paid the account before checking out the sidings on Alexandra Road, then the long walk back along Sheriff St checking out the Point Yard and another look at the Holyhead and Point Yards before finally taking the bus home. All the North Wall yards and signal cabins were in use at the time full of traditional stock, I think I had one or more afternoon walks to pay the Burmah account during my 1st year or 2 at work

Leslie Mc Allister (Leslie 10646 on this group) or Provincial Wagons produces a large range of OO gauge resin kits of traditional Irish 4w wagons including CIE corrugated opens, vans and cattle wagons. I produce 3D printed wagons including CIE Brake Van, 3 versions of the "Standard" GSWR/GSR/CIE van, GSWR/GSR/CIE standard wooden bodied open and a bulk grain wagon https://jmdesignmodelrailways.com/ I had to suspend production in October as our current 3D print contractor is no longer prepared to print some of our models, but have had encouraging results from an alternate supplier and expect to be in a position to accept orders from mid January for delivery Mar-Apl 2023

That's one serious Diorama really captures the atmosphere of the station and its surroundings. July 1985 The location was extremely compact for a junction station with the road bridge acting as a view block between the station and goods yard area and the signal box and junction with the Killeshandra Branch. In MGWR days the branch train appears to have run to and from Cavan rather than terminating at the Junction

Its looks like the LLSR Rathmelton depot opened after the line was extended from Tooban to Buncrana in 1864 and Fahan Point became the railhead/port for the villages on the west side of the lough. Like the Cork Blackrock and Passage the LLSR operated an extensive ferry/shipping service preferring to serve the west side of the Lough by sea rather than going to the expense of building railway lines.

The GWR lead the way in the UK in introducing a fleet of 33 almost identical single unit diesel railcars and 2 power twins excluding the single engined prototype. The GNR 600 Class and later CIE 2600 cars lead the way with the widespread introduction of 3-4 car and longer formation in Ireland and the UK. Internationally railways and manufacturers began to develop diesel railcars from the late 1920s onwards In the United States and Canada railroads Gas-Electric and later Diesel railcars were widely used on light passenger and mail services from the late 1920s onwards. American Car and Foundry produced streamlined single unit and articulated diesel "Moto-railers" from the late 1930s onwards http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop10.html Australian and New Zealand railways began building/purchasing diesel railcars during the 1930s. The 6 NZR "Standard" Railcar introduced in 1938 appear similar in principal to the GWR cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZR_RM_class_(Standard)

2mm pin point wagon axles (with or without the points filed/ground off!) or 2mm bogie axle (EM) from Alan Gibson Works would be the simplest solutions. Gibson Bogie wheels are supplied with plain ended OO and EM axles, wagon and coach wheels are available in OO, EM or S4 on 26mm pin point axles either direct (best phone and leave message for Colin Seymour) on 044 161 678 1607)or through suppliers such as Wizard Models in the UK

It looks like 4w coaches built for Irish companies from the 1860s onwards were similar in length to the Hattons and Genesis coaches as opposed to the shortie 'Stage Coach" style vehicles of the 1840s and 50s like the Ulster or D&K vehicles. The Macroom 4 wheeler 14 appears to be a 25' vehicle possibly built during the 1860s, the gas lighting is likely to be a GSR modification. https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-21237--second-class--4-compartments--14ft-w-b--25ft-o-b.html HMRSI 21237 is a Waterford and Central of Ireland 25' 14' wb 4w compartment second ordered from Metropolitan Carriage and Wagon in 1879 The second coach listed is a 6w 3rd ordered from Brown Marshall in 1893 so it looks like the WCIR started acquiring 6w stock before the company was absorbed in the the GSWR. https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-29134--4-wheel-passenger-brake-van--15ft-w-b.html HMRI 29134 is a Waterford Dungarvan and Lismore 15' wb 4w Passenger Brake ordered from Metro Camel in 1893 a relatively modern vehicle for a 4wheeler. I put in an enquiry to the HMRS for the WCIR 4wheeler so it will be interesting to see if I receive a response. On an unrelated subject the two ex-WLWR "Castle" 2-4-2T GSWR 267 & 491 are close in outline to the LNWR 5'6" radial tanks which survived in BR ownership into the mid 1950s a potential subject for a close enough UK conversion if anyone brings out a rtr model. The GSWR sold one of the ex-WLWR 2-4-2T to the Cork and Macroom, Inchacore apparently forgot the two locos were identical and classified 267 as F5 and 491 as F6

The Waterford and Central of Ireland and Waterford Dungarvan and Lismore appear to have used 4 w coaches until they were absorbed by the GSWR in the early 1900s Do any clear photos or diagrams of WCIR or WDLR 4w coaches exist? There is an early 1900s photo (EK 10) of a train at Dungarvan with what appears to be WDLR coaches with oil lighting, GSWR 6w coaches were fitted with gas lighting from the 1880s. https://www.waterfordmuseum.ie/exhibit/web/BasicImageSearch/offset/105/subject/_1_7_3_/ The ex-WDLR and WCIR 4 wheelers appear to have been withdrawn before the 1925 Amalgamation, but at least one Macroom 4 wheel coach survived into GSR ownership and was fitted with gas lighting! Irish Standard Gauge Railways ©Tom Middlemass 1981 The CMDR 4wheeler appears to have a 25' body length based on a minimum compartment width of 5' The CMDR was opened in the 1860s its likely that 4w coaches ordered by Irish companies during the 1860s and 70s would of been of similar dimensions and outline to the CMDR coach as opposed to the Ulster and the Waterford Tramore (ex-MGWR) 1st Class Carriages with their 1840/50s 'stage coach' styling. The Tramore 1st was apparently built by Dawson's in Phibsborough for the MGWR and incorporated a compartment with a fold down bed for use as a sleeping compartment. The Hornby & Hattons 4wheelers may not be too far off in terms of overall dimensions for 4w coaches ordered by Irish companies during the 1860s & 70s, companies like the South Eastern, Brighton, GNR worked their London suburban services with close coupled rakes of short 4w coaches into the early 1900s. The GWR Dean 3rd and Bk 3rd coaches built for branch line use during the 1890s were of similar length to 6 wheel coaches built during the same era. Coaches are probably the least of the challenges faced by an Irish Mike Sharman modelling the pre-1900 era as virtually all the locos and stock would have to be scratchbuilt especially if modelling one of the Waterford companies.