Mayner

Not a lot different from Dundalk's 1937 'heavy overhaul' of the S & S2 Class incl. 171 as virtually new locos complete with new deeper frames The GSWR appears to have started the trend in 1918 by beginning the re-build of its large 321 Class 4-4-0s with new stronger frames and raised running boards (retaining original saturated tapered boiler and Coey Cab) , MGW picked up the trend in 1925 by re-building 3 (half) of its Celtic Class 4-4-0s with superheated boilers, piston valves, new frames with raised running boards and canopy cabs. Its alleged that the 321s were re-built with frames cut but not used for additional members of the 341 Class following Richard Mansell's resignation as CME and move to the South Eastern. One of the theories behind the rebuilding of 62,88-89 in 1925 a contemporary styling was that it was intended to use the locos on a fast Dublin-Cork Newspaper Train and the 60 Class had a reputation as a fast reliable fast passenger loco. I must get the finger out and assemble the set of parts I have had in stock for a D14 since February.

3D printed 1946 & GSW Versions once available.

The GSR/CIE rebuilds of the D14s is somewhat complicated. The GSR rebuilt 3 of the 15 D14s 62, 88 & 89 with new frames, running boards and canopy cabs in the mid-20s 62 & 88 were re-built with extended smokeboxes retaining the original saturated boiler. 89 was rebuilt with a saturated Belpair boiler (later used in the 700 Class 0-6-0s) and re-classified as D13 from 1925-33 65 was rebuilt with a 700 Class boiler and a canopy cab but retained her existing frames and curving running board in 1931! 62,88 & 89 were later re-built with Z Superheated boiler same as used on the J15. 61 & 65 appear to be the only members of the class that were not superheated. D14s like several ex-GSWR classes locos ran with tenders with diffent https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/CORAS-IOMPAIR-EIREANN-STEAM/i-FWNJ8dc/A 62 Inchacore Superheated boiler high capacity Type C Tender https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/CORAS-IOMPAIR-EIREANN-STEAM/i-bKSrFvc/A The ugly duckling 65 https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/CORAS-IOMPAIR-EIREANN-STEAM/i-TTc9HH8/A 88 Superheated boiler small Type A Tender https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/CORAS-IOMPAIR-EIREANN-STEAM/i-L8CzXDF/A 89 Early CIE days being prepared for the road Superheated boiler medium capacity Type B tender.

The Midland 6 wheeler appears to be a Cusack outline 6 Wheel Full Brake 2 introduced 1908 & a further 8 in 1924 so not that old by Irish Standards Most likely A35 is on a Tuam-Galway local, there is a 1957 Sam Carse photo of A40 at Tuam with an almost identical consist with a 6w GSWR rather than a MGWR Full Brake leading the consist. I wonder whether the trailing vehicle is a fitted van/cattle wagon or a non-passenger vehicle (Horsebox or Meat Van)?

Not quite correct at one stage coaches without the TL suffix ran with 3201-3212 Series Brake Standard Generating Steam Vans on Dublin outer suburban services during the late 1970s possibly into the early 80s Sometimes travelled on Connolly-Drogheda suburban trains in the late 70s/early 80s, the consist was usually 3-4 non TL coaches and a bogie generator/heating van converted from earlier stock hauled by a B201 Class loco. Coaches tended to be a mixture of early 1950s Inchacore built, stock, Park Royal and Laminate coachs. The Park Royal Suburban coaches 1379-1418 are listed without the TL Suffix in 1979 edition of Locomotives and Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR which claims than details of CIE coaches are corrent for 27 November 1978. My impression at the time was TL fitted stock was primarily used on long distance Intercity services out of Heuston and Connolly, while stock in use on suburban and branch line services continued to rely on the traditional dynamo and battery lighting system possibly into the early 80s. Park Royal suburban and some late 1950s Laminate stock were later fitted with TL lighting.

Amazing progress Alan seems to be evolving into a master class on layout building.

Can anyone identify the railway/tramway company? 411 looks like some sort of freight/luggage motor van/loco. Besides the DUTC hauling Dublin & Blessington wagons onto its system, Dublin Corporation used to transport 'municipal waste" from its Stanley Street over the DUTC system for dumping in the landfill that later became Fairview Park.

IE phased out Sundries traffic and the use of 10' containers between 1987 and the mid 90s as it struggled to make a profit on its freight business. IE closed its smaller depots to sundries, container and some to all freight traffic shortly after its formation in 87 concentrating traffic on a few major terminals. As far as I recall Ballinasloe, Roscommon, Castlebar, Boyle were stations/depots that were closed completely to freight traffic in 87, Tullamore remained open for Bulk Cement and Fertiliser, Westport Logs. Longford, Claremorris, Ballina, Sligo and Boyle remained open for Sundries until the traffic ceased. Galway was served by a trip working from Galway that connected into the Claremorris Liner at Athlone.

The thing that impresses me about the RM Web Irish Railways Group is the strong focus on modelling together with the variety and quality of modelling. Group members do not appear to be deterred from modelling a particular loco or piece of rolling stock by the absence of a rtr model or a kit. Members appear to have persuaded Worsley Works and others to produce parts for several of the designs of railcars and rolling stock introduced by UTA and NIR incl. (a) UTA AEC cars 6&7, (b) MED, MPD, 70 Class railcars. In certain respects the railways in Ulster are/were quite different in character and operation than the rest of Ireland, compact, with intensively worked passenger traffic and a technically innovative approach. A good example of the contrast was Cavan where the GN(i) treated the Cavan Branch as an extension of the Ulster Railway main line with 4 through Belfast-Cavan trains (made up of modern stock) daily to the ending of passenger services in 1957 while the CIE line from Inny Junction was a mouldering goods only branch with 1 train daily from Mullingar. Besides the loco hauled passenger and goods trains, the GN also regularly ran Railbuses on the branch and 'coal specials' from Belturbet to the Drogheda Cement Factory. For those who like a challenge of modelling the GNR SSM produce suitable Loco and Rolling Stock kits ably backed up by Provincial Wagons while the Worsley Works NCC Mogul and WT can be assembled into fine models, Worsley also produce parts/sides for both GN and NCC/UTSA coaches and if someone likes to model 'something completly different' there is always the SLNCR, County Down and the various narrow gauge lines and tramways.

It looks like Tony may have etched the parts for the SLNCR tank using a 'home etch kit" available from electronic hobby stores. Using these kits the unser prints their design of a selfadhesive resist film using a photocopier or laser printer. It might be worth asking Tony & Kieran if they are willing for Alan or a business like PPD to check whether the existing artwork is suitable for producing a phototool. Tony's chassis/running plate artwork appears ok. Main potential issues I can see is that the artwork in the photo does not appear to follow the colour conventions used by commercial photo engravers and the narrow width of the artwork. Ideally the artwork shoud be drawn 290mm wide with the loco underframe and substructure on a single sheet, I would recommend 0.4mm nickle silver for strength and stability where the underframe and superstrructure are etched from the one sheet. PPD Artwork Guide summarises industry conventions https://ppdltd.com/artwork-guide.html PPD have a 1 off set up charge for preparing a Phototool from the artwork and will print a single or multiple sheets at a fixed rate per sheet.

Challenging converting a OO Gauge model to meter gauge a scale gauge perspective. Does the modeller compromise by converting a 4mm model to 12mm gauge or select the correct 12.2mm to S4 standards, build a model from scratch in HOm or follow the example of the Malasian modellers who appear to compromise on Japanese N. https://www.facebook.com/groups/railwaymodellersmalaysia/

The onus is on the PSNI to keep the DCDR 9the victim) informed of progress with the case throughout the investigation, its not acceptable to keep the DCDR in the dark on progress or their decision making. The wheels of justice turn very slowly its possible that a Diversionary Sentence requires the same level of proof as a Court Prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that an offender has committed a crime. The PSNI may have discussed Diversion as an option in a interview or meeting with the alleged offenders, their parents and solicitor but may still not have completed the investigation File, which may give the offenders and their parents that they will not be facing reprecussions. While working in Ireland and New Zealand I had 6 months from the date of the offence to complete a Prosecution File and a further 6 months for our legal team or state prosecution service to make a decision to Prosecute. Even in a seemingly open and shut case (admission of guilt, sufficient evidence a crime was committed & co-operative defendant) I found it challenging to complete a file within the 6 month deadline as a result of conflicting work demands.I would expect a PSNI Diversion Officer to be faed with similar challenges. If a case progresses to Court takes approximately 3 months from the date the decision was made to prosecute to the First Appearance in court when the defendant is given an opportunity to enter a plea and if they have a decent lawyer request an adjournment, usually 6-12 months from First Appearance to a Sentencing Hearing if the enter a guilty plea or a lot longer if they plead not guilty and the case progresses to trial. So potentially a minimum of 6 months for PSNI/Youth Justice to hold the offenders to account if the DCDR , possibly 1-2 years in the case of Boness with adult offenders who may already have a criminal record which is likely to progress to court.

Police Warnings and Judges Sentencing notes are discoverable under the UK Freedom of Information Act once the case has been dealt with and closed by the Police or the Courts not exactly the most effective way of demonstrating that the system is transperant and that justice has been done. Its possible the Boness case may not yet been dealt by the Courts and therefore not be discoverable under Freedom of Information. In my experience prosecuting H&S cases (white collar crime) in Ireland and New Zealand it can take over a year for a prosecution case to be heard in the District Court, as a result of workload the system tends to become clogged up with public order and drink driving cases. The offending a Downpatrick does not appear to meet the criteria to be heard at Crown Court. The PSNI have a number of options to deal with the matter including a Restorative Caution which would require the perpetrators and their parents to apoligise and offer reparations to the DCDR for the damage done. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/youth-justice#toc-3 GSWR 90s post indicate that the PSNI and the offenders parents may have agreed on a Diversionary Sentence which can vary from an Informed Warning to sentences which require an apology and an agreement to take part in work to make ammends to the victim. GSWR 90s commented that the perpetrators felt very lucky to have got off without facing any reprecussions for their actions indicates that they may have got off with a Warning. Did the PSNI, DCDR and the parents consider the offender taking part in some physical work on the railway? and if not why not? PSNI have a duty to keep the DCDR informed of progress throughout the investigation process and the rationalle behind the sentencing decision.

Interestingly the DSER obtained powers to divert the line Greystones and Wicklow further inland in 1909 but was unable to raise the money. The DSER re-located the erosion prone section of the line between Dalkey and Bray and sections of the line around Bray Head further inland before the 'Amalgamation' https://rathdown.wicklowheritage.org/topics/the-railway

Being the parent and caregiver of a teenager diagnosed with a mental health disorder, I am acutely aware of the challenges faced by the current generation of teenagers and found the knee-jerk reaction towards teenage crime expressed by some posters on this and the Boness tread distasteful. I am a strong believer in parental responsibility towards their teenage children and that society has a role in their up bringing, which is consistent with both the New Zealand and Northern Ireland legal systems. The New Zealand legal system identifies the 'Absolute Importance of the Family in Youth Justice' In both systems parents have legal responsibilities towards their children until they reach 18 and where the child's upbringing, health and all other relevant factors are considered in the prosecution and sentencing for a crime. GSWR 90s recent post indicates that the 'authorities' and the childrens' parents are doing nothing in response to the vandalism at Downpatrick despite a number of different sentencing options being available some of which required the perpetrator to make amends to the victim. In New Zealand the expectation in a similar case would be for the perpetrator (accompanied by parents and caregivers) would be required as a minimum to attend a restorative justice conference to apologise and to make amends to the victim or to carry out 'Community Work' if sentenced through the Court system. As I stated before PW maintenance and renewals on some of our heritage railways are sometimes carried out by offenders on 'Community Work' under the supervision of a qualified PW ganger, some offenders later found full time employment as trackworkers on Kiwirail. Spending several days or longer carrying out manual work on the DCDR would have been a good way for the perpetrators to work off their boredom and narcissist tendencies as part of a Restorative Caution or Community Work sentence.

664 is just about complete after another coat of "GSR' grey this time a semi-gloss laquer allowed to cure for a week before a coat of Gunz Mr Clear Super Clear Flat aerosol my standard finish. The existing paint finished was easily damaged and tended to chip when handled, the laquer appears more resistant to damage and the 'Clear Flat" results in nice eggshell finish This time I soldered the vacuum pipe to the front buffer beam. I need to glaze the cab spectacle before dispatch to the customer. On test the loco is capable of hauling 10 of my not so free running 3D printed wagons Loco is wired for DC on the customers request using the "American" using 'live axle' pick up on the loco and tender. I probabably now have enough of my own loco/rolling stock projects to keep me busy for several years without needing to buy another kit or rtr model.

Hi Paul Well done on finding 190, the MM 141/181 (1st batch anyway) are relatively simple to convert to 21mm gauge. Wooden sleepers supplied to Irish railways were reduced to 8'6" during WW1 same as England, Wales and Scotland I converted one by using the existing wheels and replacing the existing axles and a pair by replacing the existing wheelsets with 21mm gauge wheel sets supplied by Ultrascale. When using the existing Bachmann wheels with the B-B set at 19.5mm I found it necessary to reduce the thickness of the bogie sideframes to avoid the wheels fouling the sideframes, the Ultrascale wheel sets fit without modification. 21mm gauge 141 with Bachmann wheels top, Ultra scale wheels lower. Ultrascale wheelset fitted with Bachmann worm and bearing brushes, 2mm top hat bearing as trust washer. A 19.5mm B-B for 21mm gauge with OO/EM profile wheels was originally specified by Tim Cramer in a Railway Modeller article in June 72?, some modellers use B-B of 19.3mm derived from EM Gauge standards, some modellers have adapted a B-B of 19mm for use with NMRA RP25-110 wheels fitted to the majority of current rtr models. I haven't got around to converting the IRM 001 or MM121 at this stage which are fitted with a stepped axle to accomodate rotating bearing caps. I intended to convert some MM Cravens to 21mm gauge using my own etched bogie frames with MJT sideframes, though I used MJT etched bogies (coach suspension units) and side frames on some 21mm Laminate coaches. One cheap and simple conversion is to widen the existing plastic bogies by fitting new plastic or metal bolster which works remarkably effectively. I also re-used existing wheelsets by cutting and sleeving the existing axles with 2mm bore brass tube. Plastic wagon kits in this case a Parkside Palvan are easy to re-gauge by moving out the solebars and brake gear.

Recording the occupation as'farmer" rather than the actual occupation crops on my fathers side of the family. Great Grandfather appears to have been a Scottish stone mason who later became a Gamekeeper on Garbally Estate outside Ballinasloe -Grandfather a Gamekeeper marries a farmer's Daughter whoes father from a Mannion was listed as a Coachman on an estate near Woodlawn who later is listed as farmer apparrently on his own land. The young couple move to an estate near Kiltimagh where my grandfather is listed as Gamekeeper. The family move around the country as the old estates are broken up during the 20-30 eventually moving to Ballinascorney House a hunting lodge in the Dublin Mountains owned by Joe McGrath a relative by marriage, where my grandfather was listed as a "farmer" possibly on my grandmothers insistence. Grandfather was supposed to be an easy going guy not bothered about status while my Grandmother was very concious of her status as a farmers daughter. Hopefully the 1926 census will help fill some of the gaps between Kiltimagh & Ballinascorney, my father spoke about the Dublin & Blessington Tramway running Model T Fords which potentially places their arrival before 1932, though he also spoke about seeing "Model Ts" on the Clogher Valley which would have been about the same time (The family lived for a short time near the CVR)

So James Regan you publicly accused me of being an apologist and enabler of lowlifes because I posted 'what could the society/community in Downpatrick in particular childs parents could have done differently to support the teenager. Parental responsibility: Although in Northern Ireland parental roles and responsibilities include to protect, maintain and discipline a child until they reach 18 https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities . Apart from myself no one on this thread has raised the issue of parental responsibility for the upbringing and behavior of the 16 year old offender. Perhaps this is reflective of a society where it appears acceptable for one or both parents to spend time in the pub and leave young kids to their own devices. I grew up in a Corporation Estate in Dublin or next door neighbor's a relatively well-to do couple with a family of 15 kids were out most nights at the Greyhound races partying while thee older children brought up the younger ones. The broader community: My mother and father could not ignore what was going on and sometimes intervened when one of the neighbours older kids was left alone struggling to pacify a new-born baby or there appeared to be a disturbance in their house, and at a later stage when some of the older kids started experimenting with drugs. The neighbours were embarrassed but grateful for my parents intervention and were considered a 'respectable' family despite their partying lifestyle. I guess they could always afford to buy a round for the neighbours in the local pub and remain in high standing in the community. Vandalism: Like self-harm and suicide, vandalism can sometimes be a cry for help A cousin turned to vandalism in their early teens possibly to draw his parents attention when his mother and father were pre-occupied in caring for a seriously ill child. Luckily his father asked him why rather than simply striking out and punishing him. As a result of which his father took him under his wing as a result of which he grew into a responsible adult rather than a troubled youth. Prison is too good for them. Many of the kids in this part of the world who enter the Youth Justice system go on to and graduate from the adult prison system as a career criminal. Over 90% of inmates in the NZ prison system 91% have been diagnosed with long term mental health and addiction problems with a high re-incarceration rate 56%. Our imprisonment rate is higher than the UK and almost twice that of Ireland and hasn't exactly acted as a deterrent with an increase in gang membership and violent crime in recent years. In on case we had a mother shooting at the Police to create a diversion to allow her teenage sons to escape from Police following a series of ram-raids on shops and stores in the Waikatgo https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ram-raids-hamilton-mum-admits-shooting-at-police-to-help-kids-escape-arrest/7OLSKGKQBVHCDGQB4YRM6UKAO4/ Some community lead initiative to reduce youth crime divert kids into sports and outdoor actives appear to be more effective and work out cheaper than sending people to youth or adult prison, but a politician 'talking tough' on crime is almost a guaranteed to be elected. Am I an apologist and enabler of low life? If you believe that I am an apologist and enabler of lowlife because I believe that parents have responsibilities towards their children until they reach 18 and that the wider community (family, school, health professionals, social service and police) have a role then I must be an apologist and an enabler.

The Wills "Coarse" Stone SSMP200 used in Alan's bridge is a completely different and much more useful material than their "Random; Stone SSMP228. The Coarse Stone is much more prototypical in appearance laid in courses than the 'Random" stone which is random in nature for the entire height of the panel. In reality a mason building a 'random' stone wall would have built the wall in 'courses' of about 2-3' and the horizontal layers would have been visible. I have used the Wills Coarse stone for building and structures, but as someone with a background in the building trade haven't been able to "build" a convincing wall in coarsed random stone widely used in Irish railway structures. Rubble Random Semi Coursed

I shipped the final orders of RTR wagons on Monday and closed the Shopify site, which should give me some time to catchup on my own incomplete modelling projects. Over the past 4 years we have sold over 300 wagons, Brakes accounted for 38% of sales, Opens (Std Irish) 20%, CIE (Post 1946) Vans 25%, Pre-GS Vans & Grain Wagons each approx 10%. While sales of Brake Vans have been predominently rtr (98%) since the model was released in July 2021, sales of other wagons were evenly divided beteeen rtr and kits during 2021-22, before shifting to predominently rtr during 2023-24. Although wagon kits were listed as a stock item on the website during 2023, there were no enquiries or dales of kits, however the models sold out quickly when offered as rtr items in late 2023 at a higher price point.

18828 the Pallet Van with the snail logo(photo dated 1963) on the IRRS Flickr site is in the same number series as the 1722-19754 series H Vans introduced from 1953 onwards, rather than the 26001 Palvans introduced in 1964. Doyle and Hirsch talk about 18762-18861 built in 1958 having vacuum brakes fitted 1961/2 and 15 being fitted with sliding doors giving them a similar appearance to the 26001 series vehicles. 18828 is on a fitted version of the 'standard' Bullied wagon underframe with handbrake wheel quite different to the 26001 Palvan underframes

The freights in the Lisburn photos are likely to be un-fitted, its unlikely that the two vans at the head of the train consisted are fitted or through piped. Interestingly in both photos a CIE built H Van is leading an older GSR van with external body planking. This particular type of van were a 'double skinned' version of the 'Irish Strandard' Van introduced during WW1 and used by several companies that made up the GSR and Great Northern, the double skinned body may have been to improve insulation to carry perishable traffic such as butter. The Belfast Line freight workings were an oddity on CIE as the majority of trains terminated at Dundalk rather than running through from Dublin or Drogheda to Belfast, possibly customs clearance purposes or possibly different Union agreements between train crews based in the Republic and Northern Ireland. Whatever the reason Cross-Border freights continued as loose-coupled unfitted operations (with modern fitted wagons) for several years (early 80s) after the rail system in the South converted to fully fitted Liner Train operation. Its likely that the trains in the two photos are marshalled in station order wagons coupled next to the loco for Dundalk, followed by a cut of Cement Bubbles for Drogheda wagons for Dublin and destinations further South towards the rear of the train. Sometimes 'modern' fitted stock like Cement Bubbles, Container Flats and Bagged Cement wagons ran unfitted because it was more convenient to marshall a train in Station Order than marshal the fitted wagons next to the loco. In several photos of the Burma Road goods Bell Container wagons to and from Waterford are often marshalled next to the brake van at the rear of the train. In the Mid 70s Cement Bubbles to and from Ballina were often marshalled towards the middle of Limerick-Claremorris goods trains. During the first season of operation Platin-Ballinasloe/Roscommon Pallet Cement train operated as a 20 wagon Liner between Platin and Drogheda before splitting at Athlone and running as loose coupled workings complete with Brake Vans to their destination.

Best of luck with the new layout, great to see an open frame baseboard with L girder construction being used on an Irish outline layout.

Doyle & Hirsch Irish rolling stock books are likely to be based on official CIE & NIR information, I am not aware of anyone publishing a "CIE Wagon Diagram Book". Its possible that CIE isolated the Vac gear on some 'Fitted" H Vans while the vans were still in traffic. The 'fitted vans appear to have been originally intended to run attached to Passenger/Mail Trains and the fully fitted Derry Vacuum, the majority of CIE goods trains made up of conventional wagons ran unfitted until the end of loose coupled operations in the late 1970s (A coupling broke as the final loose coupled Dublin-Tralee goods climbed the Gullet out of Heuston and the train ran back into the passenger station.) When I visited Mullingar in 81-82 "Fitted" H Vans stored waiting scrapping were all neatly lettered "Handbrake Only' indicating that the Vac gear was isolated during a works visit while still in traffic, unfortuinately I did not have a camera on the day. One of Jonathan Allen's photos is of a MPD railcar shunting an unfitted H Van (handbrake only) at Waterside indicating the North Wall-Derry "Derry Vacuum" scheduled to run as a fully fitted freight sometimes included 'unfitted' wagons"