jhb171achill

I was always able to get RTE in the north, Steve.............

You missed it. Celtic Rangers won by two wickets, 4.25 to 1.17.

True Likewise, true....... Again, it does beg questions the next time we're watching a programme about, say, the famine or the (forthcoming) stuff about the creation of the border 100 years ago, or "Ireland's involvement in----------" (fill in blanks)......... How much of it is ACCURATE, and how much is the stuff of poor, back-of-an-envelope "research"? (Ah, sure, it's just oul stuff, sure it'll do. Stick in a pic of Stephenson's "Rocket"-Scotsman-thing, and put a flyin' snail on it...........)

Yes, I do get that............. I've calmed down now! :-) But yes, there's a serious disconnect in much historical research in this country. In my non-railway historical stuff, I see this all the time - an almost dismissive, cavalier approach to the proper presentation of ANY kind of history or historical project. "Ah sure, it's just old stuff, it'll do...." This creeps into all types of museums, documentation of things historical, preservation schemes - you name it.

And yes, I just knew it - “the first and last trains carried the dead, thus fulfilling a prophecy”..... NONSENSE! And they put my name in the credits. Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! As they say in the north, one is “scundered”! jayyyysus, lads, if you ask people questions, at least listen to what they tell you!

Indeed, complete with clips of the CDR and the C & L. The Irish name for Newport is wrong. Ads over now.... Ten seconds into the next bit and it’s the GREAT WESTERN & SOUTHERN RAILWAY!!!!!

There will be a “colourised” blue and orange AEC railcar in Newport, and a black, white and pink ICR at Achill (actually Brisbane), with yellow track and a bright blue platform.

So, an update, with background. I moved house last autumn. Lurking in a well-known premises in Edenderry was "Dugort Harbour", a small terminus in a setting of both scenic and operational similarity to the likes of Baltimore, Valentia Harbour or Westport Quay. Space was limited to about 11ft x 3ft max, at the end of a room. The train would leave, vanish into a tunnel and appear in a small fiddle yard. Trains would be short one or two coach things, or a short Loughrea or Foynes type mixed. So, delivery from Edenderry was paused, pending the new house, with the probability that once in, it would be installed in one of the bedrooms. Enter, stage left, PJ the loft conversion man. Long story short, there's now an attic room which I posted a vidjo of the other day. This is a much bigger room, with planning permission from the Domestic Authority for a full possession of it. I attach below a very rough sketch; the longest wall is 19ft, and the other two 14ft each. I know, I know, metrication.... bear in mind, O Younger Folk, that I went to school in the north, where distances are still measured in quarts, and time is measured in perches and roods; AND it was almost sixty years ago, when blue steam engines..... enough! I've heard comments before about how house moves interfere with layouts to the extent that a perfect one for one house simply will not satisfactorily fit into a new one; now I have that issue. Had Dugort Harbour not been started, I would now have it an entirely different shape, but it is what it is, so I have had to arrange the way the attic room will be with its current state in mind. Luckily that's do-able, so once it is delivered I'll show pics to illustrate what I mean. So, the plan now is to extend it. Due to initial space constraints it was designed with a run-round loop which could barely hold four bogie coaches and a van, although a local train rarely reached that length anyway, so all good there. Thus, in extending it, there's no point in any other station being much longer, as a train despatched from there to Dugort would not not fit in the platform. I wanted to apply a broad principle that "less is more". Artistically, we've seen the superb results achieved by some of the layouts that feature here regularly which are set in rural locations. What makes these look so realistic is as much - if not more - the wide embankments, hedgerows and sparse "clutter" (as opposed to the necessity of this in an urban setting) - as the accuracy of locos and appropriate rolling stock. I want to show a rural setting of the mid-50s to late 60s period, with enough steam engines to operate the entire thing with steam only, and realistically. Thus, I do have enough steam engines to operate the whole thing, but also for a later period, A & C class diesels, finally 121 and 141 types. Anything later I'm not interested in personally. Carriages similarly; from a few old wooden bogies (and six wheelers eventually), and some laminates and Park Royals and appropriate vans - the point being that the whole layout can be operated as if it's 1956, 1963, 1966, whatever. Such a terminus will have looked very shabby indeed, the sort of place where if you turned up there you'd be compelled to wonder how long more before CIE would close it. This, of course, makes one scenic item simpler; it's easier to put weeds on a platform than convincing-looking people! Looking at the plan below, you can see that the train will leave Dugort and head round a sharp curve - this is necessary due to the shape of the room and is just over 2'6" radius - sharper than I'd like, but it'll have to do. Childhood layouts were 6' x 4', thus a curve of under 24" radius. It then travels along a nine-inch-wide "shelf" along the wall, which will be in open countryside, before rounding a curve at the left-hand bottom corner of the drawing, into a somewhat busier "Castletown West". This is suppose to be a bit like Skibbereen or Cahirciveen. It's a terminus in a way, but the Dugort bit was a Balfour extension in the 1890s, aimed at traffic which never materialised. Now it's a bit of a backwater. The purpose of this is for variety in operation. Moving on to the fiddle yard at the top right, which is meant to represent the "Big Shmoke" (Cork or Dublin), a main line train leaves there, heads to Castletown, which is somewhat inspired by Westport, or Newcastle West, or the two south-west destinations above. When it arrives, a branch train takes over and toddles off down somewhat indifferent track to Dugort, which might have been about four miles away. This will allow a Woolwich to arrive at Castletown in the steam era, and a dirty J15 takes over for the branch train. However the goods will work straight through - two more dirty J15s (I've three). In diesel days, a similar working pattern with an A on the main line passenger, a C on the branch, and 121 / 141 types gradually taking the passenger over and displacing the A to the goods. So we have operational variation, but not too much clutter; the whole thing will look rural. I will keep posts updated as it develops, if anyone's interested. It's going to be a challenge, as it's years since I've done anything this big. Some I'm doping myself, but I've had to "sub-contract" other stuff. I haven't mentioned the red lines on the diagram, nor the green rectangle yet. The fiddle yard has these red tracks too. They are 12mm gauge, of H0 scale 3'6". This will enable me to develop a small adjacent layout to indulge my interest in South African and Indonesian steam. Not a diesel will sully these tracks. When Dugort Harbour was ORIGINALLY planned, the intention was that it would be portable. Long story, but as you can see this isn't happening. A chance conversation with a fellow enthusiast of Cape gauge stuff recently got me thinking, so this green rectangle is a portable board of 15" x 7'6" (in quarts) which rests on supports but may be lifted out when I'm operating the Irish layout. It shares the (fixed) fiddle yard, and I am talking to "those who know" about a dual gauge turntable in the fiddle yard. This will represent a Western Cape branchline somewhere on the edge of the Karoo, in the 1960s - 70s period. The beauty of South African lines is that many branchlines, even those which saw but one mixed train a day, lasted right until closure as late as the mid 1990s without ever having seen a diesel; so, perfect for steam fans even into the modern era with 2.8.4s hauling goods trains with modern bogie container wagons - same stuff you'd have seen at North Wall in 1995. This one WILL just be a terminus-and-fiddle-yard thing. What's with all those turntables? Steam engines and 121s, that's what. In the era I'm dealing with, 121s rarely if ever ran in pairs, and on most branches, CIE turned steam engines. On the South African Railways, while it did happen the odd time, tender-first working on lines like the one shown were almost unknown. The narrow gauge thing will be limited to maybe 15 items of rolling stock - a typical train of the appropriate type might have had two four wheel wagons, two bogies and one coach. Locos will be two 6J class 4.6.0s, and IF the IRM "A" class budget doesn't have the damn house back on the market, maybe a 19D. Lottery win needed, maybe another 6th class derivitave of the 6J kit. If anyone has any idea where I could get a 24 class....do ping me.

Yes, I've actually just emailed him! I am in the lucky position of having a bona fide address in the UK (Wales) as well as here...... I can get stuff delivered to either.

Ah! I was getting mixed up. I know SSM did them too, or perhaps first! I've seen finished examples of both, and they both look very well (SSM and Worsley).

Now the CBSCR green one is sold out, and probably only one GSR grey one left.

Love the old road bridge on the left. How did you make that up? The stone buttresses are a good detail - I know a bridge just like that on a very rural road in Co. Mayo, which is believed to be almost 300 years old. Meant to ask earlier - is there room for a DCC chip in those locos?

They've actually had them on offer for quite a few years, David - I've a few myself, not made up though. Eoin posted a build of one lately, for a customer....

This is a very good question and well timed, with the release of these things imminent. The "A"s were used on main lines entirely - they were never branch engines. When they were delivered, AEC railcars sets monopolised main line passenger trains - at the risk of giving DJDangerous a fit (!), they're as totally essential as tin vans. The AECs were the ICRs of the day, or the 80 class of 1980s NIR. Without them, a main line scene simply isn't right. So, they were used on goods trains probably somewhat more than passenger trains. (1). Goods trains So let's take that first. The "H" vans were appearing then too, so goods trains were TYPICALLY (MANY variations) composed of a mixture of "H" vans, and various older wooden vans, even a few old "soft-tops" still being seen. Open wagons were almost all wooden - with the Bullied corrugated ones beginning to appear about the same time. Cattle trucks were to be seen - the odd one in a goods train, but on fair day huge numbers of them still coming out of the woodwork. Some were fitted, some not; some were the quite-new CIE standard design, but a good few older ones (mostly ex-GSWR) were still about at first. Goods brake vans of the wooden-planked type currently being developed by Mayner of JM Design (seen on IRM) were almost universal on main lines. Nothing ex-GNR, other than a visiting van the odd time, was to be seen, as CIE had not yet absorbed the sorry rump of the GNR that Stormont had been unable to slash to pieces. A realistic goods train might have a ratio of three vans to each open wagon. Flat wagons and tank wagons appeared, but were few and far between numerically, and the latter absolutely limited to a very few routes or locations. One of our English friends once asked me what sort of milk tankers we had, presumably with visions of a GWR Devon branch line, where a Pannier trundled along with one coach, three milk tankers and a brake van. We didn't have that - our milk traffic was carried in churns in goods vans. Livery - literally everything grey. You take every model, throw them all in a bucket of grey pain, hang out to dry and apply numerals and "snails". Up to some time in the early to mid 1950s, about the time the A"s were seeing the light of day, the numbers and "flying snails" were painted on in the "eau-de-nil" light green, but were now being done in white (or off-white). Some "snails" were painted on - especially if they were painted in Limerick or Cork, by the look of it, but stencilled ones, and then stencilled numerals would have completely taken over by the turn of the 1960s. Now; (2) - passenger trains. As I said, many areas - especially ex-MGWR lines and Sligo - limerick - Tralee - Mallow, were either almost, or indeed literally, monopolised by AEC railcar sets - often with a very eclectic selection of centre cars, including one 1898 dining car. However, steam and hauled stock ruled on secondary lines. The "A"s were to be seen on some secondary routes, but main lines were where they would be seen primarily on passenger trains, thus with hauled carriages. These were a mixture. CIE had built a large number of carriages in 1951-3, outwardly (to modern eyes) similar to the later "laminates", and often incorrectly labelled as such today - but they had solid timber frames rather than "laminated wood". These were basically a continuations of Edgar Bredin's 1935-7 GSR "steel-sided" coaches, most of which were also running into the 1950s and beyond, albeit repainted green. So, first into the pot are the several types of "Bredins", plus their CIE cousins. Next, at the same time the "A"s were appearing, we have the "Park Royals" appearing. Now add them to the pot. Laminates - proper ones that is, started appearing in large numbers shortly after delivery of the "A"s. Hardly two batches were exactly the same, and as their lives wore on, many were altered, often becoming "one-offs" like 1909, the "Loughrea Coach". Now, we have four ingredients to our soup. However, these were all "modern". A very large number of bogie coaches of MGWR and especially GSWR origin were in front-line use, though not so much DSER; there seems to have been an early purge of these between 1949 and 1951. Most, though not all, were corridor stock but many GSWR non-c types remained, usually found on the Cobh and Youghal lines and DSER suburban routes. How many more "ingredients" does that make to our carriage mix? Think of a number and add a zero or two. Six-wheelers were still to be seen, though these would be more familiar to steam engines at that time, and a few years later would become well acquainted with "C"s on branch lines. main line mail trains could be guaranteed to include - yes, DJ - brand new tin vans alongside ancient six-wheel full brakes and mail coaches - one on the Galway run being an 1877 antique. And yes, it does have to be said these new 4-wheel heating and luggage vans were necessary on ALL diesel trains, unless neither heating nor lighting was needed (Youghal summer excursions perhaps). Steam engines heated their trains with steam; diesels did not. So what ran with an "A" in a passenger train in the silver or green period? Any or all of the above. Too early for cravens, too early for 6-wheel heating vans. Liveries: The older carriages would have the older green with full lining, while anything repainted from the mid-50s got the lighter green with single line. This would also apply to Bredins and 1951-3 CIE equivalents. (Around 1952 a rake of these was introduced in plain unlined green). Some secondary stock had the dark green with no lining at all, though these were more likely to be seen in the obscure recesses of Ballinascarthy than on main lines. The Park Royals and post-1955 "laminates", plus the earliest of all varieties of tin vans and mail vans started life without a livery - as they were unpainted "silver", to match the new locomotives. This was an unmitigated disaster, so all were repainted at first opportunity - like the "A" class themselves, after 1958, though some remained like that, in an exceptionally shabby state, until the mid 1950s - especially the tin vans. Most were repainted green. So, what's a typical passenger train behind an "A"? First, if typical, it's a main line train. That being the case, we might say six coaches and one or two vans. In 1955, three newer coaches are silver or light green, three older ones in dark green, and the two vans (one luggage, one heating) in already-filthy silver. If it's the main line to Cork, you're upping the number of coaches, but maybe only be one old wooden one - inevitably the dining car. Whew. Hope that helps! I can smell the dinner. I'm off downstairs.

What scale is it? "0"?

I would guess that over a period, once six-wheelers are to be had, tin vans and more of Leslie's wagons (there are actually more than enough already), and maybe a RTR wooden bogie coach, that might change - hope so, anyway. We had nothing from the "black'n'tnan" era a few years ago, now we've a good bit; roll on an expansion of the "grey'n'green" era!

Not trying to be funny, but I accidentally came across some sort of FB page for scale model bus enthusiasts somewhere online. Would it be worth doing a search of FB pages using obvious key words? I have lately started searching for groups interested in South African railway modelling, and it's surprising how many I've gathered up......

B145 approaching Sligo and mail vans at Galway, both 1976.

It's pretty close enough to evade criticism by livery-bean-counters! Seriously, I think it varied slightly anyway. Looks very convincing to me. As always, truly excellent work. Your efforts continue to be a great inspiration to us all.

Could that one be the old GNR goods yard at Amiens St., where the car park now is? There was a big goods shed in there.......

By T Rex, Donny Osmond, or Wizzard?

Imagine..... getting a nice parcel in the post and opening it up...... then setting off to the local for a feed’o’pints to celebrate...... Seems like another planet now....

Everything I have is green, grey or black’n’tan!

It’s actually my end, I think. I’ll give it another go! IMG_7709.MOV

The oul “2ft rule” is our best modelling resource of all, I think! Reminds me of my black’n’tan painted Mk.1 coach fifty years ago, hauled by a BR 4MT 2.6.4T which, despite a BR crest, was supposed to be a UTA “Jeep”!