jhb171achill

98D Polo in my case..... for the time being.... Mrs. jhb171 always gets the 152D!

Four years! Doesn't seem like it..... When the GSR took over on 1st January 1925, their new livery was unveiled soon after. Initially, like the addition of "tippex" stripes marking the CIE / IE boundary in 1987, there was no body colour change, just the new crest and continuing GSWR crimson lake. Locos didn't change at all on ex-GSW lines. But by the time they repainted all carriages maroon and all locos grey, we're well into the 1930s! Both Cavan & Letirm No. 1 and the MGWRs "Luna" (J18) were still in pre-1925 livery in 1932, seven years later. jhb171Senior recalls seeing a six wheel passenger brake in Kingsbridge station still in very weatherbeaten GSWR livery around the same time. The last coach in GNR brown was still in CIE service in that livery in 1965, bypassing green and going straight to black'n'tan. UTA green was still prevalent on their dwindling stock of dilapidated loco-hauled carriages in 1973, five years after NIR. And when I travelled the length and breadth of NIR and CIE in 1975,6,7 & 8, "H" vans and Palvans (latterly laid up in sidings mostly!) with "flying snails" on them were more common than you'd think...... The remarkable 12 wheeled MGWR Director's Saloon, probably the single most luxurious passenger railway vehicle ever to run in Ireland, still wore pristine MGWR maroon (thus 1918-25) in the late 1950s, because it had spent much of its life under cover. So it was preserved and is a star attraction in the Great Dublin Railway Museum........wait... Hold on, while I consult my notes......... No, sorry. CIE painted it green and scrapped it about 2 years later. And there never was such a museum, because the Grovelment didn't then, and don't now, give one flying toss about anything industrial heritage related.

I have to say that since my house move 4 years ago or so, and the attendant lack of space (downsizing!), the argument is finished for me; if I DID have the space I would constantly sway back and forth from "will I get a big layout with cheap stuff" or "a small layout with detail-perfect and extremely expensive stuff"..... Well, I've a filthy weathered J15 on my shelf beside me. The grey's much too dark, but it's a lovely model and very well made by one of our compatriots here! :-)

And as can be seen above, and even more so in colour, they looked positively space-age compared with what was round them. A bit like a brand new ICR sitting beside one of the last 141s, only way more so. Good that 134 is preserved - and now IT looks archaic! From space age to archaic in forty years.

Glover, yours are some of the posts on this forum that I particularly look forward to! Inglis was indeed based in Belfast. For years, their standard batch loaf was marketed as "Mother's Pride" and for all I know may still be. Since I never liked white bread (I know, it's the gricer's staple diet, but I was always a bit odd), I used to refer to it as "Mother's Shame"...... However, however; Inglis containers were certainly to be seen on the "Derry Road" and in the context of your layout being based about 1963 would have been very much part of the scene. Personally, I never heard of Brewsters, but someone from Derry-hi! or Donegal-hi! might be able to elaborate. I could be wrong, but I THINK I saw a picture once of an Inglis box at Killybegs in the goods yard. Whether it arrived by rail or by road is open to conjecture, but it was in the CDR goods yard. At Dunmurry, where the De Lorean factory was built, and nowadays all sorts of industrial units, this was previously a sports field. There's a 1963 picture of a dirty 171 with the Portadown-Belfast goods passing this spot in one of the colour album books, which shows this field in the background. Until the De Lorean fiasco* was built, two of those old Inglis containers sat at the side of the pitch in use as rusty dressing rooms, one presumably for each team. They were just shelters really, as the doors were off. So, as an aside, there's a modelling detail idea for someone with a northern-based layout (Nelson?) to have a small derelict hut in a corner somewhere made out of one of these! (* I just knew it from the start.)

The USA has multitudes of examples of GM locos rattling around on heavy traffic which are 50+.....

Some did, some didn't. Some left the railway entirely, others got non driving railway jobs.

I was thinking the same thing! I could never get the post-BR scene with the gaudy Disney-esque liveries and multiplicity of railway operators with "makey-up" names like Great Eastern this, or Great Western that...... Brunel would weep hysterically into his soup, and Gresley would suffer Multiple Conniptions of the Screaming Fits. And that's before they hear of "train stations", "train lines" and Colas Virgin Atoc Train Company and their class 67000898 broccoli-powered equality-compliant DMUs..... And Stanier! As for Stanier, he would walk up and down, mumbling and rocking side to side, and clutching his teddy bear firmly in his now-crooked fingers...... And Banksy would scribble all over all of'em, like he has scribbled over all of London. I was there last week; makes Broombridge look like a 3D Mona Lisa. Ye gods. A few dirty oul 141s pottering about with Bell boxes, and a 071 or two rattling past with a set of Mk. 2s or Cravens; perfect! If it was mine, being a fictitious layout, I would imagine it wasn't Waterford, but maybe a major container terminal at Mornington (Drogheda), Wicklow or Galway!

They actually look better weathered.... me being me, while my above comments stand, my own gripe would be the livery on the green ones - they appear to have a white line along the waist instead of very pale green. Maybe it's the photo, but they look that way too on their website. Setting your layout in 1963 would mean the thing probably hadn't seen a paintbrush since new in 1955, as they were the first to carry the light green after the awful "silver" was applied to tin vans and laminates!

Well said, Noel; to go to your original point, I think your weathering looks great! Nite......

I have to say I agree with this entirely. The model world is for all - engineering perfection is for some, accurate appearance for others, smaller budget for others, absolute perfection in all regards for some of us who can afford it. This is an excellent forum where as long as I've been reading it everybody has happily bumbled along merrily together. There will be few products from any manufacturer which suits everyone's standards and budgets. Personally, I salute IFM for satisfying the market they do, also others for the different emphases they place on their projects. Anyone who enters what (read post above) is undoubtedly an extremely difficult commercial market is to be lauded. Leslie's wagons, Garfield's bubbles, and others here will all agree; not easy to produce. So - IFM - certainly, for some people but not all, but hats off for what they do. That's just my bit. Over'n'out.

Ah - 38 yrs then....just under the mark... Also a very good innings!

Ah! I'm currently swopping info on another matter with Charles - must ask him!

In one of the earlier examples of what we nowadays call an "early retirement package", steam drivers who did not want to re-train were given an option of early retirement (no lump sum, but the comparatively generous CIE pension), or a move to another area of the company. Among those I have been aware of, were one who became a goods clerk, another few who transferred to station work, and another who re-trained as a CIE bus driver. If they transferred to another area where wages were lower, I would imagine (but I'm not sure) they kept their driver's terms and conditions. Many left. Same with the UTA - one GNR driver who my father knew became a bread delivery man. Many emigrated, including the man who drove the last train out of Enniskillen in 1957.

Oooohhhhh careful, careful now..........!!

No - I'd love to see it! I'm hoping to visit Whitehead on Sunday coming - is this something on display?

Superbly reliable locos, yes, and suitable for all manner of traffic. Now, I must say, while 40 years is a serious achievement, it's by no means without precedent. many steam locos saw their 70th, 80th or 100th birthdays in traffic, but even if we look at diesels, the recently retired last 80 class is well over 40, as were the following: - The last A class (1955-95) - The 121s and 141s (or some of them; not all) 1961-2012 and 1963 - (last 141? - anyone? 2014ish?) - The power units from the 70 class UTA railcars lasted into recent times - 40 years old, and the last UTA traction in operation, albeit in a modern red-bull-tin ugly body! And then we have carriages............ Having said all that, yes, the 071s have had a great life and lots more to come. Aside: In 1987, the last Indonesian 2.4.0 was withdrawn, after 108 years in passenger traffic! I saw them in action in 1980 - a favourite gricing moment. Woodburning 2.4.0 tender locos - in the 1980s, in everyday use!

From the Catacombs, which are being thinned out at that moment: ULSTER TRANSPORT AUTHORITY STATION ETC. PAINTING 1964 STANDARD COLOURS Timber Buildings EXTERIOR Framing Grey Sheeting grey Windows Ivory INTERIOR Ceilings Flat White Walls Ivory 61. Dados - where essential, grey. Skirtings Black Doors Grey Door Frames Grey. Masonry, etc. EXTERIOR Windows Ivory Woodwork Grey Doors Grey INTERIOR Woodwork Grey Doors Grey Notice Boards & Signs Black letters on yellow background Cranes, Lamp Posts, Water Columns, tanks, etc.; Downpipes and all steelwork Silver grey Ferodor inside and out Roofs EXTERIOR Sheeting Grey INTERIOR Sheeting Ivory Trusses - Steel Ferodor Silver Grey. Timber - Ivory Columns Grey Bases Black Signal Posts White or creosoted. Steelwork Silver Grey Ferodor NOTE: All steelwork to be silver grey Ferodor, "woodwork" door frames and window surrounds to be grey. Lavatories, etc., if whitewashed to be treated on a "like for like" basis. Ladies Waiting Rooms dados to be Peach British Standard B.S.1/021 instead of Grey as above. Green is not to be used for any purpose. ________ EC / HCAB 18.2.64 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Notes by jhb171: 1. Ferodor was a metallic silvery paint. 2. The prohibition of green was nothing to do with northern political sensitivities (the green was a dark one, anyway). It was to eliminate the "old" image and herald in the new; a new "corporate image" culture. Despite this, the fact that both the UTA and GNR had used a mid-dark-green in station paint (as did the GSR and CIE!) meant that as late as the 1980s (Antrim and Ballymoney), UTA green paint was to be seen in many places. I remember it in Lisburn when that station was being repainted extensively in 1974. 3. I don't know who "EC" is in the signature line; "HCAB" is jhb171Senior, who was then the UTA's railway civil engineer. I am beginning to thin out the Catacombs, so goodness knows what will turn up! I will retain some stuff, and send other material to various archives where they are most appropriate, and where they will be displayed for public view.

Anyone know where there are drawings or decent photos of the 5ft 3 versions? (Not the West Clare one).

The shed at Connolly is now formally long term leased by the RPSI and all RPSI main line locos of both steam and diesel religions can be expected to make appearances there over the years.

Perfect branch line inspiration from the grey green silver era!

In those boxes, they look like the Terracotta Army! All hail to the Ballast Army; well done, gentlemen, in pursuing this worthy project. As I write this comment, two magpies fly past outside; tis a good omen.

That layout and everything on it looks absolutely top class. Love your weathering. It's just as I remember it - things were generally pretty clean in the black'n'tan era - unlike the grey green silver era just before when all but new stuff tended to be VERY down at heel!

Great stuff! That was them. The very last one looks WAY darker; this is simply the light. The others, plus 186 at Whitehead, are correct.

I was asked recently for info on GSWR / GSR / CIE standard locomotive grey, in terms of how dark it was. I think I posted a picture many moons ago, and doubtless upside down, of a model my grandfather made while he was in Inchicore, and using actual paint. However, I can't find the picture anywhere - maybe someone else knows where it is. If it can't be found, I'll take another. Basically, it should not be "nearly black" - it should be just a shade darker than wagons. That's about all I can say without an example. In GSR times, the numberplate was all over grey too, usually (but not always) with the number and rim of plate picked out in pale yellow) - not a black background plate. In CIE times, same, or once the plate was removed an unlined pale yellow number and gold-lined "eau-de-nil" (Pale green, not yellow!) flying snail. Hope that answers it.