hexagon789

For locomotives, yes. Only the IÉ 201s had dynamic (rheostatic) brakes fitted and it was permanently isolated. None of the older GM (or MV or Sulzer) locos even had the capability - strictly tread brakes only.

Perhaps that is the case, but my understanding was the conversion wasn't found to be that reliable with the two locos stood out of traffic for a period while the other "C"s were being converted to "B"s with GM engines. I know CIÉ did consider driving trailers for the MkIID sets on the Limerick and Waterford lines (not sure if they were to be new build or conversions). Your "IC75" brings up something else I've just recalled and wondered about - both the Park Royal and Cravens were listed as 80mph vehicles (at least they were designed for running at 80) in their official spec when new, yet CIÉ never ran faster than 75 on the Cork Road until the Mk3 stock came in. Was there a plan to allow 80mph running on the Cork Road in the 1960s when the Cravens were being introduced or was the 80mph design speed more of a 'nominal' figure? Not directly specifically at yourself Mayner, more a general observation and pondering. Edit: perhaps this would be better discussed in the "1960s" thread rather than this one? Perhaps mods could advise/move, thanks

I seem to recall it was dropped to a 40 limit in the early 1990s presumably because of track condition. I think it was then raised to the present 60 after full relaying? Gordon Bennett(!), I don't know what I was expecting but 1920s vintage is about 30-40 years older than I anticipated! Nice shot, I'd rather overlooked the whole C>B conversion still being in progress but it does seem unlikely a 550hp "C class" being entrusted with a frontline 'Supertrain'.

Ballina looked rough in the 1990s based on this footage: (See 1 min 45 to 3 mins 05)

I suppose once re-engined, a B201 was more of a "puller" than most of the GMs. Even with the same nominal engine output as a B181, the MV electrical equipment gives them 842hp at the rail compared to 810hp for a B181. I would agree the bogies were smoother riding, that also seems to have been one of the few redeeming features of the original 'A's. Though it doesn't always help, BR Class 47s have Commonwealths and they had a reputation for rolling like a ship in a Force 12 at 95mph! Must try flickr again for a photo, now knowing they did have a booked working I can narrow my search. That photo above was one I was already aware of.

Here we are, 224 shunts Supertrain AC stock at Hueston in late-September 1978:

Not in service that I'm aware of but ECS definitely, give me a tick and I'll find you a photo...

It looks okay from my end, just a bit squished if you view it in "mobile" rather than "standard" view. You've obviously put a lot of effort into it jhb and the detail is excellent. I myself find editing and producing tables on the web leads to mixed results sometimes!

So... you can't wait then?

Iirc they were delivered in batches both alone and with the first batches of AC MkIId stock, during the course of 1972.

It just got even more ridiculous, apparently there are 23(!?!?!) current new-build steam locomotive projects in Great Britain at the moment...twenty three!

Well, if we here in Britain can have new build LNER P2s and Peppercorn A1s, why can't Ireland have at least a re-steaming of one of its most illustrious steam locomotives? (And yes I know there are reasons why not, but even as someone who is not primarily interested in steam I'd like to think positive about it.)

That's true, I agree with that, in this instance I was more thinking of the figure itself rather than the veracity of the record itself. You do see differing figures quoted on certain records sometimes. CoT is an interesting one, I've seen articles which have categorically stated she couldn't reach that speed but there was a good article in Steam Railway some years ago which neither agreed nor disagreed with the speed but pointed out some things. Based on the train weight and the gradient, using simple calculations of train resistance the train would have been able to attain 90mph purely coasting down the hill. The stopwatch used recorded only to the nearest 0.2s. An error of just 0.3s could have changed the speed from 102.3 down to 98 or pushed it to 105mph. An error of 0.6s could have dropped speed to 91 mph pushed it to 108. There are a number of records of 'Cities' attaining 90mph+ so the class was certainly capable of that. You also have the point that the record was not instantaneous speed but an average of 102.3mph over a 1/4 mile, she would have needed to exceed 102.3 to obtain such an average, furthermore she was still accelerating at that point which raises the potential speed even higher. Driver Clements only shut off power and braked at the next milepost. There have also been claims that CoT simply didn't have enough power to make such a speed but more modern calculations have shown it would be possible. It will never be proven conclusively but personally I believe she at least could have reached 100mph. Well, that emphasises my earlier point about the actual figures - I understood it to be 98mph she supposedly only attained! ;) And therein lies the problem, even with a full set of dynamometer rolls and stopwatch timings you can never really be sure about these older records and you can't go back and check them. Perhaps easier than a building a time machine would be to re-steam 800 and give her a run... :)

Given the 96mph is quoted in a few places I think we can take that as read that 800 reached that speed. Given that's only 4 mph below 100 and the characteristics of the class bear similarity to British locos which managed into the three figures I think it is at the very least possible that an '800' could have made 100mph without difficulty, but if you read the IRRS Journals then the first officially recorded 100mph was not until 1984.

Ah, a BR 81, my mistake! One of the better of the early electrics, though rode abominably until they had suspension mods in the late-1970s. Looks like she's just out the painful shop too.

An 80 Class?

I don't know how strict IÉ are on speeds (typical GB allowance is 3 mph over but that's only a rough 'tradition') nor how they calibrate their train speedos (usually set to overread slightly here, and indicated 100 might only be 98mph for example) , but here in GB today you will almost never record higher than a trains maximum even by a few mph and on some lines and in some locations it's impossible due to various safety systems. In fact I can even think of one class where if it's maximum rated speed is exceeded by 3mph, it sends a text message to route control confessing the drivers' sins!

Just over 100 for an 071 seems quite reasonable, one of the Mk3 trials managed 105.4 and the 201s have an overspeed limiter which is supposed to kick in at 105, but presumably they would disable it when they ran the Mk4 tests if they did indeed touch 120. Again seems very reasonable, I would expect the 141 to have freer running at speed given its 89mph gearing against 77mph for a 121, so I think you could say the 83 for a 121 is more impressive. Interesting that only 80 for an 'A', the increased power doing little to overcome the nominal geared maximum of 75 for the 1,325hp units. I quite agree and I tend to believe that traditional logs based on timing milepost can be more accurate than GPS, the loss of coverage or similar can often lead to random spikes in speed. I remember someone being very proud to have captured a 140mph on a Virgin Pendolino until it was pointed out that it was impossible to reach that speed in service and no driver would risk it either and it was quite an obvious "spike" to 141mph in an otherwise sustained running at 123-124mph. I think they sound better thrashing away getting on the move, to me that is the sound is would most identify with a 121.

That's an interesting point and one I'd never noticed before! Surely that's quite realistic for a Craven hammering it up the Cork Road at eighty?

One of the working timetables I have notes that '001' Class locomotives are prohibited from working goods trains of certain weight over the likes of the Rosslare-Waterford-Limerick line with less than 5 motors and can only continue in service with 5 they are not allowed to start out in such conditions. Presumably same with the 071s though the higher power would mean on 4 motors they'd be a bit more capable than a 001 on 4.

Interesting reading back through this thread, some interesting anecdotes and figures. It got me wondering about the ability some of the other classes to go faster than their rated speeds. Based on that if an 89mph geared 071 could do 116mph and a 165km/h geared 201, 120mph, then what sort of speeds could the likes of a 141 or even an 'A' Class manage? Presumably an 'A' could manage at least it's maximum speed on re-engining of 85mph but could they go faster? One of the uprated 1,650hp might have enough grunt for a 'ton' I would've thought. Or an 89mph geared 141, possibly 89mph would be pushing it for a single 141 but a higher-powered 181 might be just about able with a very light load but a pair would have enough power to get into the 90s I'd think. And is 96mph the overall Irish steam record or purely the record for a GSR B1a/800 Class?

Thanks, did each railcar set have a buffet or only the Galway set? That would seem logical.

Like the 47/4 in large logo with a set of Sealink Mk1s, looks ace. You scenics and backscene are beautifully done too. Also like the dual 47/4 vs DBSO scene at the platform. Need to get myself a couple of "Dipsos" for my own layout plus about a million more 47s!

At one point perhaps, but I have a book on European railways with a diagram of a German 4-wheeler fourth class vehicle with 3+3 wooden bench seating. The vehicle even has two centrally positioned toilets. I'd assume the vehicle dates from the 1920s, possibly the 1930s.

I think most of the continental European networks kept 3 classes into the 1950s, some possibly longer. I think Germany even had four classes - fourth being on rural branch lines consisting of unpadded wooden bench-equipped four wheelers. The trouble with having too many classes is having to provide for catering facilities on longer journeys. I know that in Scotland the LNER had composite diners on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen expresses where seperate first and third diners would have been overkill but trying to provide for three classes must have been interesting for the NCC. Did they have any such thing as a tri-composite diner?