Signalling my Layout

[Darragh]

I am looking for help with how to signal my layout with semaphores

 

[David Holman]

Suggest you provide a sketch plan of the layout. Need to know which are the running lines and which are just sidings. Is the station a terminus, or part of a continuous run?

 From this it should be possible to work out what signals are needed and where.

[derek]

23 hours ago, Darragh said:

I am looking for help with how to signal my layout with semaphores

 

Hi Darragh and welcome to the forum. First thing I would do would be to get your layout off the attic floor and on to some kind of baseboard. You're looking for trouble. Your knees must be wrecked. Don't know the first thing about signals, but plenty on here who do.

[Darragh]

Here's the layout of the station. Ill be delighted with any help I can get.

Thanks

 

[David Holman]

 So, double track main line coming in from the left. Single track line entering from the right. Will platforms one and two be just up and down separate, or will you want them both signalled for each direction?

 Potential for a multiple doll gantry across the three tracks where you have written "long sidings", with arms controlling entry to the quay and platforms 1-3 in one direction, plus starters from the quay and all the platforms in the other. That's before adding shunt signals to the long sidings. Could be positively bristling, but a serious job to build, let alone make work.

 Something simpler with several, separate posts probably better.

 Another question - will they be hand operated, remotely controlled or just decorative? Either way looks an interesting project.

 

[Darragh]

17 hours ago, David Holman said:

 So, double track main line coming in from the left. Single track line entering from the right. Will platforms one and two be just up and down separate, or will you want them both signalled for each direction?

 Potential for a multiple doll gantry across the three tracks where you have written "long sidings", with arms controlling entry to the quay and platforms 1-3 in one direction, plus starters from the quay and all the platforms in the other. That's before adding shunt signals to the long sidings. Could be positively bristling, but a serious job to build, let alone make work.

 Something simpler with several, separate posts probably better.

 Another question - will they be hand operated, remotely controlled or just decorative? Either way looks an interesting project.

 

Something with separate posts would definitely be more suited to me, i don't have access to any laser cutters or 3D printers so these will be handmade as I'm on a budget

They will probably be hand operated, in the future i might try to get them remotely controlled, but Ill have to see what I can do.

Thanks for the help, but could you send us a drawing or something like that to get a better understanding of it please

Thanks again

[David Holman]

Above is just one take on how you station might be signalled, but no doubt there are other options:

• Signal 1 is a three doll unit. The left arm signals a train from the main line to the quay. The middle arm controls entry to platform 1, while the right hand one is for platform 2 or 3. The left doll would probably be shorter than the other two.
• Signal 2 is a starter, with a single arm and will sit at the entry to the quay siding, for a train leaving this
• Signal 3 is also a starter and will  sit at the end of platform 1
• Signals 4 and 5 are also starters for platforms 2 and 3, should they been used for both directions, otherwise signal 4 is not needed.
• Similarly, signal 6 has two dolls on its post, although if only up trains use platform 1, then just a single signal is needed. However, there will then need to be a starter signal at the other end of platform 2, for down trains to start. There will need to be a starter at this end of platform 1 as well, if both lines lines are bi-directional
• Three possible sets of ground signals might be included, as marked GS on my sketch. These would cover entry to/from the sidings, though only the middle one is essential, as it is on the main running lines and would guide a train from platform three on to the up main line. The other two ground signals, to the quay and other sidings probably aren't needed as these points would like as not be controlled by hand levers adjacent to the track.

 Hope this helps - other options are possible, while you then need to decide what sort of signals you want and there is plenty of choice for that!

 

[Darragh]

Thank you David. I couldn't have asked for a better explanation. This has been very helpful.

I'll keep you posted with the progress.

Thanks again

[Signal Post]

Just a question David (@David Holman), in reading the text above and referring to the diagram I wonder if you are have inadvertently swapped platforms 1 and 3 in your thoughts?, The explanation seems to make more sense if platform 3 is considered as the bay platform (adjacent to the siding) and platform 1 as the up platform.

Anyhow I'm glad you did put this up as I was going to post a diagram myself and you have saved me some work! btw my suggestions would have been somewhat similar to yours (great minds etc...!)

Edited March 26, 2024 by Signal Post

[David Holman]

Oops! You are correct. Have indeed swapped 1 & 3. Well spotted.

[David Holman]

A further thought is that where I suggested a ground signal on the crossover leading from platform 3 to the up main line, this isn't needed. On the real railway, this move would be protected by interlocking the signals and points - the signal could only be pulled off/clear, once the points were set for this move.

 Signal enthusiasts in the model world will take great delight in replicating such things (and why not, if that is your thing), though as in the real world, such things are complicated.

[Darragh]

I think I might as well include the ground signals David, it'd make the layout a little bit more interesting.

Here's where I'm at so far

[David Holman]

Splendid!

[Signal Post]

They're coming along very nicelyI

As regards ground signals it's not unknown for some exhibition standard layouts to include non-functioning ground signals, the small size of these compared with the much larger signal arms means that the fact that they don't move isn't terribly noticeable, however the presence of the (fixed) ground signal does add to the overall impression.

[DSERetc]

Congratulations!    These are excellent models of Great Northern Railway signals.   The white posts with the black cap and the spectacle plate the same colour as the signal arm.   This was the practice of the GNR.

On CIE and Irish Rail, the posts were white (or sometimes silver on round steel posts},  with the top of the post painted black down to about level with the bottom of the spectacle plate and the bottom of the post was also black to about three feet above the ground.  The spectacle plate was painted white.

On the GWR and on parts of British Rail, the spectacle plates were painted black.

See the thread: Irish Railway Modeller/Questions and Answers/Irish Railway Signals,    June 11, 2019 

[Darragh]

After a bit of searching I couldn't seem to find any indication of what GNR ground signals look like.

Are they much the same as the ground signals in the rest of the country?

Thanks

[DSERetc]

These photos are from  The Great Northern Railway (Ireland)  in colour by Norman Johnston   Colourpoint Books,  

Amiens Street Station.  it includes rotating ground signals with a horizontal white 'on' or stop signal and a red 'off' angled signal also a back light for the on position.

 T

[DSERetc]

I just noticed this red ground signal .

DSERetc

[David Holman]

Worth checking out the Wizard Models website, as he stocks a good range of such things.

[Darragh]

I was after paying a recent visit to the transport museum and found a GNR ground signal, much to my delight.

[David Holman]

Nice! Tiny models, it always amazes me how big the real things are.

[Darragh]

I have most of the signals now in position on the layout

[Darragh]

I've had a bit more progress since with the layout.

I've got the locos and rolling stock looking somewhat great northern too.

[Galteemore]

Excellent progress. Well done for having a go at producing some stock of your own - looks the part. 

[Darragh]

I am in the middle of constructing a small goods yard, not too dissimilar to Westport Quay.

I plan on constructing a carriage shed and small goods store. I plan to make a slate roofed carriage shed but cannot find any good examples to base it off. I am also having a small bit of difficulty finding a good picture of the track side of a small goods shed to base my one off. Could anybody be of possible assistance?

 

[popeye]

Here are a few examples of the real thing and a couple of models.

And the last one is my own design in laser cut wood.

[Darragh]

Thank you very much

 

[Patrick Davey]

Hi @Darragh - I like your layout!  Any chance of some video clips?  Am a big fan of modelling the GNR too 

[Patrick Davey]

Great advice from everyone above - this forum is a gold mine!

[Kevin Sweeney]

11 hours ago, Darragh said:

I am in the middle of constructing a small goods yard, not too dissimilar to Westport Quay.

I plan on constructing a carriage shed and small goods store. I plan to make a slate roofed carriage shed but cannot find any good examples to base it off. I am also having a small bit of difficulty finding a good picture of the track side of a small goods shed to base my one off. Could anybody be of possible assistance?

 

Here are plans of Crossdoney goods shed. This 6 bay shed was originally built as a 3 bay shed. If your looking for a very simple good shed Enfield would be an easy one to make. If you go to the Cavan County Council planning portal, you can also find plans of the GNR goods shed at Belturbet.

I'm very impressed with the collection of interesting buildings on your layout, a great representation of the kind of buildings found in many Irish towns.

[Kevin Sweeney]

Some photos of Enfield Goods Shed. The OS maps at geohive.ie would give you the footprint of the building and by counting the bricks it would be easy to workout the heigh.

 

Edited February 25 by Kevin Sweeney

[Kevin Sweeney]

-Plans, photo and map of Belturbet Goods Shed. This is a GNR shed, which fits the theme of your layout.

 

[Darragh]

Very nice

 

[Mayner]

Carriage Sheds appear to have had corrugated iron roofs, but the GSR removed the sheds to reduce their Rates Bills during the 1930s I think Schull on the Schull & Skibereen retained its Carriage Shed to the end. 

The majority of buildings on the Valencia and Kenmare branches including station buildings, goods shed and carriage sheds were in corrugated iron though Cahirciveen engine shed was timber. Westport Quay Goods shed was corrugated iron though the station building was stone.

The buildings in the NLI Cahirciveen photo are similar to Kenmare & the goods shed similar to that at Westport Quay

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318850

The Ratio OO Carriage Shed is similar in styling and construction to carriage sheds used at Irish branch line terminals, though usually single track.

I usually use Wills Coarse Stone (actually stone laid in regular courses as opposed to random rubble) for buildings buildings like railway goods shed and Wills Corrugated Asbestos for corrugated iron because corrugated iron sheets were usually longer in length and fixed in a more regular manner than the Wills iron sheets.

 

 

[Darragh]

Thank you all for the help. However I based my own shed off of the goods shed in Laffansbridge. It came together very well with its functioning doors on rails.