Bullied wagons in the North

[sayhall27]

Hi all

I'm curious if any of the current IRM bullied based wagons ever ventured into the North, places such as the derry road or irish north west particularly. as when I come to creating a layout based on my irish stock I'll most likely base it somewhere local to me.

[Garfield]

31 minutes ago, sayhall27 said:

Hi all

I'm curious if any of the current IRM bullied based wagons ever ventured into the North, places such as the derry road or irish north west particularly. as when I come to creating a layout based on my irish stock I'll most likely base it somewhere local to me.

In short, yes! There are images of them in places like Derry/Londonderry, even some images of them being shunted by MPDs.

[flange lubricator]

39 minutes ago, sayhall27 said:

Hi all

I'm curious if any of the current IRM bullied based wagons ever ventured into the North, places such as the derry road or irish north west particularly. as when I come to creating a layout based on my irish stock I'll most likely base it somewhere local to me.

Yes here is a picture of one from the O'Dea Collection. Bullied Vac Braked H  Van at the rear 

 

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307472

 

Edited May 5, 2024 by flange lubricator

[Newtoncork]

So it's been hauled by an MPD?

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, sayhall27 said:

Hi all

I'm curious if any of the current IRM bullied based wagons ever ventured into the North, places such as the derry road or irish north west particularly. as when I come to creating a layout based on my irish stock I'll most likely base it somewhere local to me.

VERY much so.

As these were being churned out en masse in Inchicore, the UTA was doing its best to run down rail freight in the north, eventually withdrawing it in 1965 - but not before their dwindling fleet of badly neglected wagons were falling to pieces, so CIE ones were necessary. Add to that the fact that the vast bulk of what goods traffic was left, consisted of Dublin / Dundalk to Foyle Road or Grosvenor Road. Thus, from the division of the GNR between CIE & the UTA - AND before it - "southern" wagons were always to be seen, but now would become more commonplace.

After 1965, obviouswly, ALL wagons were CIE, and since the vast bulk of gioods was in vans, this meant that "H" vans - plus some older CIE / GSR types - comprised 100% of van traffic.

I regularly saw the goods trains in those days on the ex-GNR route. I remember seeing the first "roundel" logos appearing in trains otherwise bedecked in stencilled flying snails, and hauled by those new black'n'tan 141 thingys. The O'Dea photo there shows a fitted train hauled by sveral MPD railcars, but before that even, CIE-owned wagons were commonplace.

The same may be said of Bullied Opens. Between Provincial Leslie's GNR goods vans, and the new IRM products (opens included, and flats), you've everything you need to recreate a 1960s goods train, bar a CIE 20T or 30T brake van. For that, there's a Studio Scale Models kit - or possibly if JM Design still has some?

The old GNR guard's vans were more used on UTA ballast trains. Since the goods trains came from Dundalk, standard CIE vans would be used. Can't say it never happened, but I never saw an ex-GNR guard's van on an actual goods train by that stage. (And if you DO get one, Provincial Wagons have one - but fer gawd's sakes dont paint the black ironwork on it and cream balcony that "Ivan" has at Whitehead; nothing ever ran like that....!).

In the 1960s, of course, all wagons were grey; the brown would start to appear after 1970. While cattle was still being carried on the system elsewhere, as far as I'm aware, the last time you'd have seen cattle trucks in a Dundalk - Belfast train was probably in the mid-1950s, so no need for cattle wagons. I certainly never saw any on that route - and I don't have any recollection of seeing grain wagons either.

A typical train had 30-35 four wheels wagons and a brake van. (I used to count 'em).

In the mid-60s, the cement bubbles started appearing. They were standard wagon grey, like everything else. The IRM model has a black chassis, uniquely for the time, though I never remember ever seeing o0ne in this guise - only plain grey all over as normal. However, photographic evidence of both exists, which leads me to conclude that one batch was all grey, and other had black on it for some reason. By about 1968 they were starting to paint them orange - grey 9not black) chassis. And then you started getting fitted container wagons. The very earliest were grey, but they were entering traiif around the same time the brown livery was starting to appear.

I remember seeing the odd (loose-coupled) flat in the trai9n, usually with a baler or a new car on it, probably from Ford's in Cork.

Of the thirty-odd wagons on each train, at least twenty would be goods vans, and by about 1966 you would have amongst this maybe one GSR horizontal-planked van, three or four "Palvans" and the rest "H"'s. Now, we know what this means; purchase of many H vans will be necessary!

As for the Derry Road, the make-up of a train was very much similar, though it closed before all of the ex-GNR vans were scrapped. Thus, the only difference to the above might be a few badly neglected looking ex-GNR vans with UTA markings over their increasingly scruffy appearance, in with the CIE vans. Another thing which was to be seen on Derry Road goods trains was an occasional CIE (passenger!) "tin van" carrying newspapers. I stand to be corrected on this, but I am unaware of cement wagons ever appearing on that line - they were only being built then anyway.

On the Belfast services, I stand to be corrected again, but I'm sure I saw some "back to backs" on that too.

 

[jhb171achill]

55 minutes ago, Newtoncork said:

So it's been hauled by an MPD?

Correct. The UTA had no diesel locos and steam engines were few after they got rid of goods in 1965. This went on into NIR times.

The last remaining steam locos were entirely occupied with shunting York Road and the spoil trains, so none were available for goods trains. The MPD railcars had been designed by the UTA with the same sort of rationale as the CDRJC: railcars capable of hauling goods - hence "MPD" = "Multi-purpose diesel".

So, a CIE loco - my principal memories are entirely of 141s in the 60s - took the train north, and two or three MPD cars would haul the Derry traffic up the NCC. The advent of the Hunslets initially made no difference, though once the 111s appeared, Hunslets were to be seen on this duty. Images even exist of (exceptionally rare) double-headed Hunslets on the Derry goods. CIE locos, of course, also made it into Waterside station.

[Garfield]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/25054624177/

[Mayner]

Its possible Bullied H Vans ran on the Irish North West before the 1957 closure of the lines in Northern Ireland. There are a number of photos of H Vans in the consist of SLNCR goods trains in NW Spink's SLNCR pictorial.

There is a 1956 photo of a southbound goods in the Enniskillen-Florence Court section with several H Vans marshalled towards the end of the train. There is also a nice 1957 photo of Enniskillen substituting for Railcar B on the 12:00 Enniskillen-Sligo passenger, the train is made up of three Midland 6 wheelers 2 CIE H Vans and a Goods Brake.  

Its likely that CIE vans that ran on the SLNCR were used for traffic from the South and West to the North West routed over the Limerick-Sligo and SLNCR. Dublin-Sligo and Drogheda cement traffic routed over the SLNCR more likely to have been transported in GNR wagons.

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

Its possible Bullied H Vans ran on the Irish North West before the 1957 closure of the lines in Northern Ireland. There are a number of photos of H Vans in the consist of SLNCR goods trains in NW Spink's SLNCR pictorial.

There is a 1956 photo of a southbound goods in the Enniskillen-Florence Court section with several H Vans marshalled towards the end of the train. There is also a nice 1957 photo of Enniskillen substituting for Railcar B on the 12:00 Enniskillen-Sligo passenger, the train is made up of three Midland 6 wheelers 2 CIE H Vans and a Goods Brake.  

Its likely that CIE vans that ran on the SLNCR were used for traffic from the South and West to the North West routed over the Limerick-Sligo and SLNCR. Dublin-Sligo and Drogheda cement traffic routed over the SLNCR more likely to have been transported in GNR wagons.

Very definitely. I’ve seen pictures of them in Enniskillen, Omagh & Clones.

[Galteemore]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Very definitely. I’ve seen pictures of them in Enniskillen, Omagh & Clones.

In my spare room, one is still at Enniskillen ! 7mm scratchbuild on a Alphagraphix Bulleid chassis.

Edited May 6, 2024 by Galteemore

[Tullygrainey]

Lovely modelling David

[airfixfan]

Ernie has a photo of a tin van at Strabane