Early CIE wagon livery - 2 snails

[Mol_PMB]

When CIE was formed in 1945 to take over the public transport operations in Ireland, they seem to have spent the first 5 years repainting everything - to be fair it needed doing and they didn't have the budget for new-build. It wasn't until CIE was nationalised that they had a useful renewals budget to work with. 

Anyway, whilst working through my library a few months ago I found an interesting snippet in 'The Farranfore to Valentia Harbour Railway' volume 2 (Patrick O'Sullivan). There's a section on rolling stock liveries through the years, including wagons.

Quote

The CIE emblem was stencilled on goods stock in light green on the side of each wagon on the second plank from the top. The totem was 5 in. deep by 10 in. to 12 in. long. Tare weights and wagon numbers were also in green. [...] In 1945 the livery was given as dark grey with two small copies of the CIE device in green painted on each side.

Now we're normally familiar with one medium/large snail per wagon side, usually spanning two planks and typically about 12" high. So since reading the quote above I've been looking for a clear photo showing the original 1945 scheme with two small snails. I'd found several partial views but this is the first complete clear image I've found showing this livery, and it appears to match the description perfectly. This is former GSWR open wagon 10351 seen in 1948:

If I come across more images of this 'two snail' wagon livery I'll add them to this thread.

I wonder how widespread this scheme was and how long it lasted before being repainted? It would make an interesting variation to the later 'one snail' which of course could be seen in green or white.

 

[Westcorkrailway]

11 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

When CIE was formed in 1945 to take over the public transport operations in Ireland, they seem to have spent the first 5 years repainting everything - to be fair it needed doing and they didn't have the budget for new-build. It wasn't until CIE was nationalised that they had a useful renewals budget to work with. 

Anyway, whilst working through my library a few months ago I found an interesting snippet in 'The Farranfore to Valentia Harbour Railway' volume 2 (Patrick O'Sullivan). There's a section on rolling stock liveries through the years, including wagons.

Now we're normally familiar with one medium/large snail per wagon side, usually spanning two planks and typically about 12" high. So since reading the quote above I've been looking for a clear photo showing the original 1945 scheme with two small snails. I'd found several partial views but this is the first complete clear image I've found showing this livery, and it appears to match the description perfectly. This is former GSWR open wagon 10351 seen in 1948:

If I come across more images of this 'two snail' wagon livery I'll add them to this thread.

I wonder how widespread this scheme was and how long it lasted before being repainted? It would make an interesting variation to the later 'one snail' which of course could be seen in green or white.

 

I would like to think this was the only wagon like this, done as an experiement to see how it would look, and instead of replanting it, just pushed it out and went onto the next one 

[Mol_PMB]

48 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I would like to think this was the only wagon like this, done as an experiement to see how it would look, and instead of replanting it, just pushed it out and went onto the next one 

I will take this as a challenge to find photos of more!  In fact now I've had a quick search I do have some more...

This IRRS photo dated 1946 only shows the right-hand part of an open wagon, but it has a small snail on it. Implication but not proof that it had 2 small snails. In this case the snail is on the top plank:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508940168/

These IRRS photos dated 1947 show 'convertible' van 1863 (complete view with 2 small snails) and 1823 (partial view of the right-hand part with a small snail):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509063589/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508987629/

 

A single small snail on the left-hand part of the side isn't proof of 2 snails, as seen here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508838653/

 

So there were certainly several wagons with two small snails. Photos from the late 1940s are scarce compared to the later years so this may have been the standard scheme initially.

The single large snail (still in green / EdN) was definitely in use by 1946 so the application of two snail livery was short-lived. Replacing it with a single large snail wouldn't have saved any paint but maybe a few minutes of the painter's time. 

 

[David Holman]

Just goes to show that the further you look, the more you see! Just as interesting, is the amount of texture on that first photo - chunks missing from the timber, varying gaps between the planks. Would be fabulous in colour...

 With interest in cameo layouts, there is every reason to replicate this, especially in 7mm scale. Not sure I'd want to try in anything smaller, or indeed on a 20 wagon train.

[Colin_McLeod]

Two snails are faster than one. 

[leslie10646]

Not an open wagon, but the same size ....

Lance King collection, Copyright IRRS

Guess what? I supply an equally tiny Snail with my kit of this wagon (on sale at Blackrock, of course!).

Edited yesterday at 17:23 by leslie10646

[Northroader]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Two snails are faster than one. 

I took the shell off a snail to get it to go faster, but it just made it more sluggish.

[Broithe]

35 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I took the shell off a snail to get it to go faster, but it just made it more sluggish.

I'll bet the snail was relieved, though. 

They get sick of hearing the sea all the time.

[Flying Snail]

 

You can keep your slugs lads! CIE knew the real high-flyer was the snail.  I don't want to pour salt in the wounds but the slugs only left a trail to show how far behind they were. 

[Broithe]

58 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

 

You can keep your slugs lads! CIE knew the real high-flyer was the snail.  I don't want to pour salt in the wounds but the slugs only left a trail to show how far behind they were. 

Of course, as we all know, high flyers can be a real problem to molluscs.

And it's not just the Thrushes, etc.

As the ex-Guinness family yacht, which became HMS Mollusc, found out.

https://portal.ariadne-infrastructure.eu/resource/59fc3a73055473126175625f2ba34a9aef4d7c3635b638260709319b46c418d6

[jhb171achill]

My understanding is that this was experimental, very short lived, and applied maybe to one or two of several types of wagons. 

A but like green “H” vans, very few, and re-done in “normal” livery pretty quickly (by wagon standards!).

I do know that later, some cattle wagons, flats and opens (probably VERY few in the latter case) had small one-plank-height WHITE snails too - the cattle wagons shown is probably one of those.

The “light green” referred to was the standard “eau-de-nil” used with green liveries.

Since this EdN was long gone (from new paint jobs) before the early 1960s lighter grey wagon livery appeared, you won’t get light grey wagons with anything other than white numerals and snails (no matter what size).