Unloading cement bubbles

[raymurph]

I picked up 6 bubbles from IRM's latest run and am wondering how to use them on my currently still under construction layout.

 

I've read that they could be unloaded at purpose built facilities but I won't be able to allocate so much layout space to a single cement industry.

 

I've also read  that cement bubbles  'can be delivered at a simple siding – see the example at Waterside, page 66 in Ulster Transport in Colour by Derek Young.'

And that the bubbles were unloaded into ' road-hauled trailers fitted with the necessary air blowers' from the IRM website.

 

These simple siding unloadings I could fit on my layout, the one siding could be used for a variety of wagon unloadings to trucks/trailers, like a Teamtrack on US railroads.

Does anyone have any photos of these simple siding cement bubbles unloading to trailers? Or even just photos of the trailers / road tankers?

Thanks.

 

Edited February 3 by raymurph

[Mayner]

Bulk Cement appears to have been transhipped direct from rail to road (bulk tanker) at Ballina in connection with the construction of the Killala Asahi Plant during the mid-late 70s. 

I saw a couple of Cement Bubbles marshalled towards the centre of the then daily Claremorris-Limerick goods train outside Athenry station on more than one occasion while travelling by train from Dublin-to Galway during the Summer Holidays during 77-78.  

Athenry later began receiving Bulk Cement by weekly? block train from Mugnet after the opening of a silo on an existing loading bank on the downside on the west side of the level crossing. The loading bank was served by a loop with connections to the Galway and Limerick lines, Bagged Fertiliser wass received and distributed from this area.

 

Bulk Cement is transported by road in bulk powder containers (similar in principal but smaller than modern road tankers) Some bulk cement trucks/trainers were fitted with a donkey engine driven air compressor to load/discharge cement.https://www.donedeal.ie/trailers-for-sale/cement-tanker/41345804?modal=gallery

Up to the 1990s Bulk Cement was likely to have been distributed largely in CIE owned trucks initally 4 axle rigid (8 leggers) possibly Leyland or AEC, tanker bodies possibly fabricated to CIE own design or proprietary UK design https://www.roadtransportimages.com/shop/product/p8-wheeler-15ton-bulk-powder-tank-body Roadstone and RMC may have used their own trucks for distribution from the factory/railhead to precast yards and pre-mix plants in the Dublin area.

Artics with 2 axle trailers mainly used 70s-90s bulk cement tankers were similar in outline/profile but shorter than the "County Down" donedeal.ie trailer, but with the donkey engine/compressor mounted at the rear of the trailer above the axles! A distinctive feature of the donkey engine/compressor was that they were mounted in an enclosure with a metal hood and tarpaulin sides.

I guess the question is whats the best option for accomodating Bulk Cement wagons with no really suitable trucks/trailers available from EFE/Base Toys. 

Bulk Cement wagons appear to have been discharged at Waterside and Ballina in a siding where truck could draw alongside a siding using its one truck/trailer mounted compressor or possibly a protable compressor.

A compact silo incorporated into an existing goods yard may be worth considering as an option, a signature structure with a compact footprint similar to that at Athenry or Tullamore.  

 

[jhb171achill]

I saw them in odd ones and twos, in amongst ordinary goods wagons heading for Belfast in the mid to late 1960s when these wagons were brand new (and standard wagon grey). Dunno how they were dealt with at what then would have been Grosvenor Rd goods yard….

[raymurph]

Thanks Lads, invaluable. 

So from your info Mayner I guess my simplest modelling solution would be to place a 2 axle rigid with a donkey compressor onboard next to the bubble on a siding. Getting a shorter one with the donkey at the end would be the problem. 

 

A more accurate and only slightly space hungry solution would be a small silo with a 4 axle rigid powder tanker being loaded beneath it. I could swap out the truck when other wagons are on the siding like grain etc.

 

I could also place a tank on the siding with some trailing hoses and unload various tankers there as well.

[Mol_PMB]

This image from Flickr is the wrong side of the Irish Sea but illustrates a minimum-size cement unloading operation. 

 

[raymurph]

Thanks Mol, and does that 4 axle have a donkey engine built in somewhere?

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, raymurph said:

Thanks Mol, and does that 4 axle have a donkey engine built in somewhere?

I'm not sure but there must be a source of air somewhere. 

Note also that the truck has storage tubes for hoses to connect to the wagon.

The comments on the Flickr image say that it's a still from a Pathe film, so if you could find the film I expect it would show more.

 

For an Irish example, I recall that one of the CIE annual reports from the 1960s has a good photo of a CIE road cement tanker. I can't remember which year though.

[flange lubricator]

I'm enjoying the very informative posts here in the early days of the bulk cements they were sent to various parts  of the system and could be unloaded anywhere providing the road tanker had an air blower which provided low pressure compressed air (below 40PSI ) in high volumes see picture below as the silos were built at various locations on the system cement only served those locations .

You can see the blower behind the cab .

 

Edited February 4 by flange lubricator

[Mayner]

I checked out Cabra and Athenry cement terminals on a number of occasions during the 80s-90s on each visit no road-tankers or CIE personnel were present!

I guess the tankers had earlier collected their load of bulk cement from the terminal and were either en-route to the customers premises or had discharged their load and returning to the terminal.

A bulk cement train had arrived from Limerick just before I visited Athenry on a Saturday morning in 1996, a pair of local teenagers were 'hanging out' with the signalman in his cabin when I asked if I could have a look around and we walked together to the silo for the signalman to check the rate of discharge, the train crew having booked off following the arrival of the train and connecting several wagons to the discharge system.

There were relatively few people to be seen about CIE goods yards following the ending of loose-coupled goods operation during the late 70s. I guess all thats needed to accommodate a short cut of Cement Bubbles is a siding with vehicle access where the wagons can be spotted for unloading even if no suitable road vehicles are available. 

Flange Lubricator I had completly forgotten about CIEs  twin silo bulk tankers on Leyland chassis, perhas Enda (CK Prints) might produce a 3D print of those distinctive t bodies to fit on an EFE 8 legger chassis?

Edited February 4 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

This image from Flickr is the wrong side of the Irish Sea but illustrates a minimum-size cement unloading operation. 

 

Never knew BR had their own cement lorries!

[Mike 84C]

I'm thinking about how the cement is extracted from the delivering rail vehicle into the recieving vehicle or silo. Cement is a similar type of product to flour and in the bottom of those tanks there was some type of plate  which allowed the product and air under pressure to mix to facilitate delivery. I do not think suction would work difficult to regulate the flow.

My only experience of delivering those type of products is animal feeds where a measured amount is dropped into the airflow and blown into a silo. It does need a fair amount of power to do this, its surprising how much power a Rootes blower absorbs.

[flange lubricator]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

Flange Lubricator I had completly forgotten about CIEs  twin silo bulk tankers on Leyland chassis, perhas Enda (CK Prints) might produce a 3D print of those distinctive t bodies to fit on an EFE 8 legger chassis?

John I vaguely remember them I certainly remember the Articulated tanker with the distinctive GUY big J up front , a year or two ago I visited Model Rail Scotland and came across a small supplier of 1/76th road vehicles  Including Leyland Ergomatic and Guy Big J 

Guy Big J 1966 Motor Panels cab - Road Transport Images

Edited February 4 by flange lubricator

[raymurph]

 

How out of place would this RTR cement tanker be on an Irish themed layout? Could there have been a Welch family owned transport company somewhere in Ireland?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/297575201142?_skw=1%3A76+cement+truck&itmmeta=01KGMHK658PNBZA0XYW55CGST7&hash=item4548dd3976:g:NW4AAeSwriBosfpY&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA0O7PUuNWmJ%2B%2BUShgI9tQz%2FozLZVYxVIqRtVJccI7Ru%2BybzZYTaVmNYYq5DdI8O%2BLaEnKCds369g7uJeJHv8EzacsL0Hem0DOH145kN3sE2gKoLOymLaJicvsVYyJScHw2axrrXGUPDw%2FVV2LkDvr7nOCwf1rYKiCdaw5TzzGyHqYNjpQneKLFUWp97fKDHIcSRpF0cXzxjZTMX2KbR63ItCLry0WJhI6ET8oute4QDbZMvcIAXdJVTRC9TzpzdrZHZ7hV7mvwNnEouhIWJwyOmg%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_bizJGFZw

[Flying Snail]

1 hour ago, raymurph said:

 

How out of place would this RTR cement tanker be on an Irish themed layout? Could there have been a Welch family owned transport company somewhere in Ireland?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/297575201142?_skw=1%3A76+cement+truck&itmmeta=01KGMHK658PNBZA0XYW55CGST7&hash=item4548dd3976:g:NW4AAeSwriBosfpY&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA0O7PUuNWmJ%2B%2BUShgI9tQz%2FozLZVYxVIqRtVJccI7Ru%2BybzZYTaVmNYYq5DdI8O%2BLaEnKCds369g7uJeJHv8EzacsL0Hem0DOH145kN3sE2gKoLOymLaJicvsVYyJScHw2axrrXGUPDw%2FVV2LkDvr7nOCwf1rYKiCdaw5TzzGyHqYNjpQneKLFUWp97fKDHIcSRpF0cXzxjZTMX2KbR63ItCLry0WJhI6ET8oute4QDbZMvcIAXdJVTRC9TzpzdrZHZ7hV7mvwNnEouhIWJwyOmg%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_bizJGFZw

Walsh is the more common version of that name in Ireland - actually in my part of the country its  not uncommon to hear Walsh pronounced as Welch/Welsh. (i.e. the name is spelled Walsh, but sometimes pronounced Welch/Welsh). That being said, there's lots of crossover between the two islands and English names do crop up so there being a Welch's Transport would not be impossible/implausible 

[Mayner]

The "Welch's Transport" cement tanker appears to be a generic tanker branded by EFE for various businesses rather than a model of an actual bulk cement tanker and quite different in outine to the bulk cement tankers used in Ireland and the UK.

Whatever about the body I think a truck with an AEC or Leyland Ergonomic Cab (introduced 1964) would be more appropriate for use on a 60s-70s layout than the the late 1940s EFE model

Trucks collecting bulk cement from the railhead likely to be owned and branded CIE due to the Boards almost monopoly position in licensed haulage and closed shop agreement with trade unions. During this era concrete product manufacturing companies such as Roadstone, RMC, CPI would have been allowed to collect bulk cement from the railhead using their own trucks and unionised crews, or Licensed Hauliers.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/96862991@N03/50579882578/in/faves-60482654@N03/

EFE seems to have done a nice model of an Ergo but seem to be scarce on the second hand market. https://www.awesomediecast.com/efe-1-76-aec-ergomatic-short-2-axle-flatbed-lorry-alan-firmin/

Interestingly there is a Welch Fencing Ltd (est 1971) in Preston that supplies pre-cast concrete fencing components.

Cement Terminals tended to serve plants within a 30-40 mile radius Tullamore -Banagher Precast  Buildings https://banagherprecast.com/sectors/buildings/ Athenry-Oranmore Precast https://oranmore.co.uk/ plus smaller plants and readymix batching plants. When I worked in Dublin during the 70s-80s we received pre-cast products (blocks, pipes, roof tiles) from plants up to 40 miles away likely to have been supplied by rail to Cabra or direct by road from Platin. Working on the Masonite project at Drumsna during the mid 90s we received readymixed concrete batched at the Roscommon and Boyle Roadstone plants, using cement possibly railed to Tullamore or Sligo and transhipped by road or possibly direct from Platin. Roadstone was highly unlikely to buy cement from Sean Quinn although the Derrylin Cement Plant was a lot closer than Platin and transportation costs likely to be considerably lower

Edited February 13 by Mayner