Kingscourt Gypsum Loading Techniques

[Celtic_transport]

Hi all, curious to know if anyone has any info in regards to how gypsum trains were loaded at kingscourt over the years. I understand there was a rotating platform in the yard, which was then replaced by the large storage shed and digger in the 80s, just wondering was there another method before the rotating platform?

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Celtic_transport said:

Hi all, curious to know if anyone has any info in regards to how gypsum trains were loaded at kingscourt over the years. I understand there was a rotating platform in the yard, which was then replaced by the large storage shed and digger in the 80s, just wondering was there another method before the rotating platform?

Not sure, I could be mixing this up with something else, but was this where they used tractors to push stuff into wagons?

[Celtic_transport]

7 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Not sure, I could be mixing this up with something else, but was this where they used tractors to push stuff into wagons?

This is the platform Im referring to, i believe gypsum started being transported by rail in 1939, Im unsure whether it would have been possible to load the trains this way with the road vehicles of the time.

 

Im after stumbling across this image, of the gypsum site in its early years, and what looks like a railway wagon with "GS" on its side, I wonder if there was a siding into the site itself originally?? I know there was a siding into kingscourt brick factory before they built a loading platform along the line later, wonder if they done the same for the gypsum plant?

[jhb171achill]

25 minutes ago, Celtic_transport said:

This is the platform Im referring to, i believe gypsum started being transported by rail in 1939, Im unsure whether it would have been possible to load the trains this way with the road vehicles of the time.

 

Im after stumbling across this image, of the gypsum site in its early years, and what looks like a railway wagon with "GS" on its side, I wonder if there was a siding into the site itself originally?? I know there was a siding into kingscourt brick factory before they built a loading platform along the line later, wonder if they done the same for the gypsum plant?

I’ll ask Barry Carse when I see him. He probably has photos of it. 

[Mol_PMB]

You may have seen these already, there are some closer photos of the rotating platform and the ramp to it (which was alongside the loco shed), in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s in the IRRS archive. It seems to have evolved a bit over time:

PJF_MGWR_Kingscourt_01_Mar_1955 | [Photographer: Patrick J F… | Flickr

GRM_MGWR_Kingscourt_25_June_1955 (2) | [Photographer: George… | Flickr

NMA_GNR_177_Kingscourt_29_April_1961 | [Photographer: Norman… | Flickr

GRM_MGWR_Kingscourt_03_June_1961 | [Photographer: George Mah… | Flickr

VSP_SLNCR_2509_Kingscourt_03_July_1965 | [Photographer: Vinc… | Flickr

NEG_CIE_26678_Kingscourt_17_April_1975 | [Photographer: Norm… | Flickr

NEG_MGWR_Kingscourt_17_April_1975 | [Photographer: Norman Ga… | Flickr

 

[Branchline121]

Some photos do show the remains of what I assume to have been a siding into the factory.

 

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, Celtic_transport said:

 

Kingscourt

The ramp and rotating table for loading gypsum traffic appears to have been installed at some stage during the 1950s

The ramp and table were built in the  space between an existing siding and the loco shed https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3ae19cc156bf4706a929304bf8fcc4f6

The loco and its train appear to be in the area once occupied by the loco shed/depot. The shed appears to have been demolished at some stage during the 1960s.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507644047/in/album-72157661623942928,

A photo of an IRRS steam special indicates that at one stage gypsum wagons were moved by rope and capstan shunting  (P84 Lost Lines Ireland Nigel Welborne Ian Allen 2006). https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/191024-ropecapstan-shunting-in-4mmft/. A capstan and rope was located in the area of the left of the power pole/lamp in the 1980s photo and a rake of open wagons (mainly wooden bodied) was positioned in the run-round loop. 

I visited Kingscourt on an IRRS special (001 Class hauled!) in 1974/5. At the time gypsum for the Platin Cement factory was loaded in Bulleid corrugated opens, gypsum was being unloaded at Platin by crawler cranes with grab, the hopper unloading plant had not been comissioned. The old goods yard was full of Opens and a solitary ex-GN 6w Ballast Wagon, track was flatbottom dating from MGW days, no working signal interlocking points manually operated, facing point between running line and loop locked by clamp & padlock.

Re-visited Kingscourt in 1982, still original FB track and ramp and table in use.  Work had started on new loading area and storage shed, old goods yard area cleared and sidings removed.

Not sure if there were any hopper wagons in the yard, operation likely to have been altered to out and back fixed formation to and from Drogheda/Platin following the ending of loose coupled working & capstan operation.

 

Gypsum Industries Siding.

Its possible that at one stage gypsum was mined/quarried in the immediate vicinity of the factory, in a similar manner to the way to the way cement, gypsum and brickworks are located close to the source of their principal raw material. 

The GNR (I) introduced six 20T Hopper Wagons (6015-6020) for gypsum traffic in 1944, with CIE introducing 3 20T Gypsum Hoppers 23963-6 in 1953! possibly for traffic from the Gypsum Industries Siding to the Boyne Road cement factory Drogheda.  I remember reading about hopper wagons placed in the siding in a 1950s article of a journey over the line, possibly John O'Meara's "Meath Road" article/paper in a 1950s IRRS Journal.

Another possibility is that the GNR may have routed gypsum from workings on the Cavan/Monaghan border on an all GNR routing via Carrickmacross and Dundalk to Boyne Road, rather than a CIE/GN routing through Kingscourt and Navan. Both routings involded a road transfer from mine/quarry to railhead and certain working closer to Carrick than Kingscourt.

Personally I think its likely that the Gypsum Sidings may have sent out bagged plaster and possibly plasterboard in vans in a similar manner to bagged cement, until it became viable to ship by road direct from factory to the builders merchants permises. 

Changing colour of gypsum load.

One of the noticeable features of the Kingscourt branch for many years was the the red gypsum carried by the trains and streak of red gypsum in the ballast (leakage through hopper doors) along the branch, in later years  gypsum carried took ojn a dark grey hue, possibly a change to a different mine/quarry or being stored under cover before loading at Kingscourt.

 

 

 

[Celtic_transport]

Thank you both for this information @Mayner @Branchline121, Im going to go after work to walk along the greenway at kingscourt, hopefully it will give me a better idea.

[Celtic_transport]

Went on a nice stroll this evening from kingscourt station down to the gypsum plant. While its good to see the former trackbed put to use again albeit with feet instead of bogies, its a shame more of the yard and station building hasnt been restored to show what the site actually used to be. To a stranger you wouldnt know it was a station apart from the rails embedded in the tarmac.

when i got to the gypsum factory there was an old overbridge above, i presume this originally carried the road, and then just on the suspected alignment of the siding, there was an old signal hidden in the trees. I wonder whether this was to protect the long lost siding? 

[Celtic_transport]

11 hours ago, Branchline121 said:

Some photos do show the remains of what I assume to have been a siding into the factory.

 

The signal that appears in this image is the one Im referring to, still present today.

[skinner75]

Wow - that is some change to the station since I saw it last - some 20 odd years ago when I was dating a girl from Kingscourt!

Here's a vid we have probably all seen, of gypsum trains making their slow progress towards Kinscourt, what with having to stop for the many manually operated level crossings along the route:
 

https://youtu.be/jxx5cij667o?si=eEa2sdo8rwopKLcq