murrayec Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 Hi All Take a look at the post below and see if you are into this idea. Post reply and thoughts on this thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/895-New-DART-8100-Model?p=37000&viewfull=1#post37000 murrayec Quote
BosKonay Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 I think it's great idea! Perhaps we could outline in this thread the basic idea, and the module sizes? Quote
Dave Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 I think it's great idea! Perhaps we could outline in this thread the basic idea, and the module sizes? Module sizes I would recommend 1200mm long x 600mm wide, they are cheaper to make as sheet material is 1220mm wide so I can get more out of a sheet. I can fit each module with precision alignment dowels ensuring all baseboards align perfectly. I could do a special price of €40 per baseboard normally €50 and €8 per leg normally €10. Quote
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 Definetely interested in this Now for which station to model:eek: Quote
murrayec Posted October 9, 2013 Author Posted October 9, 2013 Hi Dave discussed 1200x600mm boards because the cut from one sheet of MDF with the least waste Using this as the preliminary module size we would have to look at setting a standard so the boards can come together in different configurations. I see the main line as straight running the 1200mm length of the board, so the boards join end to end. 90deg bends will have to be designed for layout space purpose. If someone is building Blackrock Station say, to have a descent size platform two boards would be required- working at that scale a group layout will be big! Boards can go side to side to incorporate side track-work say Dun Laoghaire Station, Pierce Street and the like. If I was to build my idea of the Carlisle Pier the board would be 90deg to the main line. The back of the layout boards probably should be flush and have a scenic backdrop. Dalkey Hill is the only big bend in the line- that the bend is the feature. Bray Head is a bend feature to- what an amazing one to do! I reckon the spectator views the scene from the sea- ah this sets a starting point to locate the main line on a board, the closest point the track comes to the sea! There would have to be space between the feature boards- initially things will be close, but over time the layout could fill out as more feature boards are added. Track specification should probably be the most common? Control of main line- digital is the most apt for this, many controllers along the layout Side tracks controlled locally at that board. Here is a rough sketch incorporating some of the above ideas, its based on a Dun Laoghaire Station idea;- The size is intimidating, if a thing like this was to catch on we would need a lot of display space! While doing this sketch I think the main line track is best running in the centre of the boards- this allows for detail on either side of the tracks. What have you got to say?...... murrayec Quote
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 code 1OO would be universal track but main problem i see is the overhead wiring. Quote
Glenderg Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 Putting the tracks dead centre doesnt allow for sweeping long curves. My thinking on something like this was the section of track from dorset street bridge with canal, facing the victorian terrace, running to where croke park starts. (Can run any era that way) To be realistic it would have to have curvature of some sort. It would be possible to set track exit points at three, or two zones on the boards also, prrovided thd track exited perpendicular to the baseboard edge if ya follow? It would allow for layouts like malahide, which is activity heavy on one side only, but you'd have to be good at dominoes to get it all arranged at a show? Thoughts? Richie. Quote
murrayec Posted October 9, 2013 Author Posted October 9, 2013 Hi Riversuir226 I was thinking about that one also! It would be fabulous to have on a layout because its prototypical, but it is awful stuff. One thought I had is;- if someone does it that's fine, if its made clear at the start that the layout beside may not have it, it's their decision to do it. I know some will say that could be messy but as the layout moves on this could be developed. There are a number of things like this we would have to discuss and have guidelines and aspirations for the layout. Though my view is- people will be modelling to their ability and monitory input as long as the board complies with the Main Line Track specification- position on boards and the like- hey lets join it up please. Another one I thought of is;- what if we end up with two boards with the same feature! murrayec Quote
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 The catenary around greystones would be do able with a jig & a lot of scratchbuilding the rest would seem to be a nightmare must dig out my Rosslare to Dublin Dvd to have a closer look. These guys done a modular layout a few years ago might be handy for a few tips!!!! http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=3503&forum_id=85 Quote
murrayec Posted October 9, 2013 Author Posted October 9, 2013 Hi Glenderg The middle option came from looking at Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock and that area, where the seafront is adjacent the line- centre works best. For curved track layouts the board can be bigger than 1200x600mm as long as it hooks up. If you mean curve on the track between say Dun Laoghaire & Blackrock- that's difficult;- long curves would have to be over two boards and may not have a key feature except the sea wall and shore on it, lovely to have but who would build it, people will build key feature boards that could be used on home layouts. This does need more discussion and thought. Croke Park, Malahide;- Deadly we just jumped the river! We will need an air plane hanger Keep the ideas coming murrayec Quote
EPBrophy Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 Sounds really interesting. Would probably be a long way off in being able to contribute to it but will stay reading this thread and hopefully start doing something around Greystones when I have developed skills etc Quote
RedRich Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 I think the first thing that should be looked at is standardising everything. Is it one board per person, if so all boards need to be the same size. Track code 100 or 75. Operating system DC or DCC. Catenary is available from Dapol in 00, it won't be prototypically correct but is passable. The inner city stations like Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse, are overground. I think it would be good to keep it on the one level and south of the river. Platform length's at the Stations on the sea front, Booterstown, Blackrock, will take up a couple of boards. If two different people are doing Blackrock it will need to be seamless when boards are joined as the platfroms will need to be identical on both boards. Coastal railways are really good to look at. If I wanted to catch some Dart trains on camera myself I would rather be standing at a seafront Station as opposed to Killester, or Harmonstown. Dun Laoghaire is below street level and although it would make a beautiful layout it would be wrong for this kind of setup. Trains need to be able to arrive on scene and move on to the non scenic boards as an end to end type of setup or a rectangular, oval setup. The size of something like this needs to be looked at also when looking for somewhere to exhibit it. Draw up some plans, look at what will be the most suitable for everyone involved. Dave produces fantastic baseboards from the pictures I have seen. Eoin of course has his fantastic Dart models. We also have folk that are qualified in engineering and architecture, get them on board. Last but not least there are some fantastic modellers on here. If it is done right and kept simple it will work better and achieve the right result. It is a wonderful idea and it would be something to see in operation. I have no doubt it could be pulled off. Rich, Quote
Glenderg Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I . I think it would be good to keep it on the one level and south of the river. Rich, One level yes, southside only? It would be a warm day in hell i could subscribe to a "southside" only focussued project. No North Wall or Quayside action, no glorious Mills' butter brick buildings, nor GNR accopmanieamnet? Whatsmore, i wouldnt get to use up my stock of 1:76 tracksuited people, young wans pushing scratchbuillt prams, and workshy clowns throwing scratchbuilt tinnies into the scratchbuilt canal! What's da warld comin ta rich? Quote
Dave Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 If we are going to do this we need people to commit to it and see it through. Its a big commitment and I would hate to see it stall half way through. I think we could do north side and south side, if the baseboards are set up in a large oval north side could be on one side and south side on the other. Track should be Peco code 100. If someone wants to model a particular area that takes up to 2 or more baseboards they take that many rather than splitting the the area between 2 people. The biggest issue is getting the track lined up between baseboards, anyone have any ideas on this? Quote
Broithe Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 If we are going to do this we need people to commit to it and see it through. Its a big commitment and I would hate to see it stall half way through.I think we could do north side and south side, if the baseboards are set up in a large oval north side could be on one side and south side on the other. Track should be Peco code 100. If someone wants to model a particular area that takes up to 2 or more baseboards they take that many rather than splitting the the area between 2 people. The biggest issue is getting the track lined up between baseboards, anyone have any ideas on this? The RPA offers a consultancy service - http://www.rpa.ie/en/consultancy_services/Pages/Default.aspx ... Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Rich & Glenderg Great thoughts there Rich, though I kind of agree with Glenderg- that we should allow for all comers if it can be integrated. And yes an overall preliminary design scheme should be designed as a pattern to work to. Anyone got a rail network diagram or can they point me to one? Hey, Glenderg are you discriminating against our Southern Skanger! They are of stunning quality and can throw scratchbuilt tinnies with the best of them, Canal's! we don't need Canals we have the Sunken Track and Metals through Dun Laoghaire- perfect for lobbing those tinnies at the passing trains! Not to sure of that's how to spell 'Skanger' murrayec Quote
BosKonay Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 http://www.fremo-net.eu/1043.html?&L=6'>http://www.fremo-net.eu/1043.html?&L=6 Wealth of info from the modular experts http://www.fremo-net.eu/1043.html?&L=6 Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Dave I have a number of sketches set up on the track connection between boards, still needs work though but will post it up for all to comment soon. Code 100 track- that's 3 votes up so far. I agree if someone wants to build 1, 2 or 20 boards its OK, though we cannot let it get to big so that it wont fit a display area! More discussion on this is needed. If people build with a home layout and the group module layout in mind, I hope not- but if it should stall there is no loss to the builder. murrayec Quote
BosKonay Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 Some inspiration for a simple modular loop Quote
BosKonay Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 http://www.free-mo.org/ Free Mo - the US standard for group modular layouts Quote
Kinvara-Train Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 http://www.free-mo.org/ Free Mo - the US standard for group modular layouts that's the way you should go and plywood and no paper (MDF) Quote
BosKonay Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 http://royersfordmodular.org/Modules.html Quote
Dave Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 that's the way you should go and plywood and no paper (MDF) Nothing wrong with MDF Walter, it's incredibly strong and light weight when used correctly. MDF has got a bad rap from the stuff they used to make it from. Its now very environmentally friendly and sustainable. The problem with plywood is quality, most of it comes from the far east and is weak and full of voids. Birch ply is great but it 5 times the cost. Quote
RedRich Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 One level yes, southside only? It would be a warm day in hell i could subscribe to a "southside" only focussued project. No North Wall or Quayside action, no glorious Mills' butter brick buildings, nor GNR accopmanieamnet? Whatsmore, i wouldnt get to use up my stock of 1:76 tracksuited people, young wans pushing scratchbuillt prams, and workshy clowns throwing scratchbuilt tinnies into the scratchbuilt canal! What's da warld comin ta rich? You're right Richie, what was I thinking. You could have a Northside scene with Damo jumping the wall to hitch a ride without paying, and Ivor standing on a Southside platform looking aghast at having to travel on the Dart. Rich, Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi All Good link BosKnoay, everyone into this idea should have a read of this page;- http://www.free-mo.org/standard They have some good ideas and this could give us a text template to work with. The sketches I have set-up so far, are very close to this. It doesn't really matter what the boards are made of, they just have to be sturdy, same height and fit the specification for track joining. The free-mo.org idea of using C-clamps under the board on the down-stand to join tables is a good idea- nothing sticking out the sides! Though pin & socket locators should still be used, metal ones can be the electrical connections between the boards? I will hopefully finish the drawings for discussion over the weekend Again anyone have a network layout? Hey, Walter where have you been- its good to hear from you murrayec Quote
Kinvara-Train Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 Hi All Good link BosKnoay, everyone into this idea should have a read of this page;- http://www.free-mo.org/standard They have some good ideas and this could give us a text template to work with. The sketches I have set-up so far, are very close to this. It doesn't really matter what the boards are made of, they just have to be sturdy, same height and fit the specification for track joining. The free-mo.org idea of using C-clamps under the board on the down-stand to join tables is a good idea- nothing sticking out the sides! Though pin & socket locators should still be used, metal ones can be the electrical connections between the boards? I will hopefully finish the drawings for discussion over the weekend Again anyone have a network layout? Hey, Walter where have you been- its good to hear from you murrayec working Quote
RedRich Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 If we are going to do this we need people to commit to it and see it through. Its a big commitment and I would hate to see it stall half way through.I think we could do north side and south side, if the baseboards are set up in a large oval north side could be on one side and south side on the other. Track should be Peco code 100. If someone wants to model a particular area that takes up to 2 or more baseboards they take that many rather than splitting the the area between 2 people. The biggest issue is getting the track lined up between baseboards, anyone have any ideas on this? The last point Dave is the most important. If you were to supply the baseboards for the build it would keep things uniform. Would it be possible to put some brass pins at the ends of the boards. People could then solder the ends of the rail to the tops of the pins and this way the track would align when the boards are brought together. If people are interested in doing it commitment will have to be top of the list as you say. If and when the modules would be ready to exhibit the last thing anyone would want is for some people not to be able to attend, leaving the project short of some boards.. It would need huge planning and maybe those taking part could form a committee to launch the project and oversee it's build. Rich, Quote
RedRich Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Rich & Glenderg Great thoughts there Rich, though I kind of agree with Glenderg- that we should allow for all comers if it can be integrated. And yes an overall preliminary design scheme should be designed as a pattern to work to. Anyone got a rail network diagram or can they point me to one? Hey, Glenderg are you discriminating against our Southern Skanger! They are of stunning quality and can throw scratchbuilt tinnies with the best of them, Canal's! we don't need Canals we have the Sunken Track and Metals through Dun Laoghaire- perfect for lobbing those tinnies at the passing trains! Not to sure of that's how to spell 'Skanger' murrayec Fairview Depot would be a nice module to show off those Darts Eoin. Rich, Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Rich Yes I mention that in a previous post- we would have to set-up some community boards;- A. 90Deg bends B. A few standard boards with straight through track c. Fiddle yard- table with cross-slide multipal track for loading up trains If we have this facility then small to large layouts would work if someone does not turn up! murrayec Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi Rich The point about board standard- this would be part of the specification and modellers would have to comply for it to fit in? I was talking with a fellow modeller this morning about the idea and we thought of this;- 'Bring your Train' to get the public aware and support the concept, we invite people to bring their trains along to the show to run them. The trains are put into a queue, hooked up to rolling stock and then run through the layout! This is really no different to us running our trains on it, plus it gets everyone involved. murrayec Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Hi That other link BosKnoay posted - take a look at the photos on the page and read the text to the side. I think their simple concept is good? http://royersfordmodular.org/Modules.html murrayec Quote
murrayec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Fairview Depot would be a nice module to show off those Darts Eoin. Rich, I saw a youtube video of the first two DARTs sitting in the depot - I had the idea of a model of the shed with one side open with this scene and another of a DART under service or re-painting! Some say Dort in the south but the most I hear is Daaarrt! murrayec Quote
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