derailing Cement bubbles

[richrua]

hi folks. My homemade cement bubbles seem to derail a bit too easily. especially on points (hornby type) . I used dapol prestwin kits as a chassis. Any suggestions to help fix ? thanks.

[Broithe]

How heavy are they? Sometimes just a bit of extra weight is all you need.

 

And check the back-to-backs.

 

The Hornby points are not the best - but they are a good test - if it goes both ways through them, you should be OK...

[murrayec]

Hi richrua

 

As Broithe says- weight is the main one.

 

I posted a thread on modifying Hornby points to get over this problem- it's in the tips n tricks area

 

Eoin

[WRENNEIRE]

What day is bin day?

[richrua]

as always, thanks lads.

[richrua]

I will modify my points and let you know. Bit of weight will b added too as suggested. For future purchases, looks like peco are recommended, but there is a bit of a confusing choice there. what's all this insulfrog electro frog stuff ? I am DCc

[Warbonnet]

I'd check that the chassis is square (if you built the chassis yourself) and make sure all wheels are contacting the rails too. A simple check would be to put the wagon on a table and see if it rocks (like as if one wheel is not making contact with the table)

[richrua]

Thanks warbonnet I'll try that

[Broithe]

I'd check that the chassis is square (if you built the chassis yourself) and make sure all wheels are contacting the rails too. A simple check would be to put the wagon on a table and see if it rocks (like as if one wheel is not making contact with the table)

 

A piece of modern float glass is a handy way of getting a truly flat surface.

[murrayec]

Hi richrua

 

The frog stuff;-

 

The frog is the pointy bit in the middle of the points;

 

Insulfrog is made of plastic and this breaks the track power at this point because when switching the points there would be a short circuit! Not a major problem if your locos have more than one set of pick-ups, if using only one set of pick-ups you have probably noticed a slight stutter of the loco going through the points at slow speed?

 

Electrofrog is made of metal and carries the power through the frog, but requires extra wiring and a switch to change the polarity so that there isn't a short. Then there is no break in the power over the frog.

 

Hope that helps

 

Eoin

[richrua]

Brilliant Eoin thanks

[richrua]

Thanks Broithe I have just such a piece of glass here.

[Hunslet 102]

I'd check that the chassis is square (if you built the chassis yourself) and make sure all wheels are contacting the rails too. A simple check would be to put the wagon on a table and see if it rocks (like as if one wheel is not making contact with the table)

 

I would agree with Warbonnet,check your points are ok with your rtr 4 wheel wagons before starting to rip up some of your ballasted track.Yes Peco points are far better than Hornby in my opinion,but think carefully what you want from your layout before making any changes.

[richrua]

Yes will do. Thanks

[murrayec]

Hi

 

In my experience doing the mod to the Hornby check rail does not require removal of the points, it can be done insitu and does not require any knowledge in regard to bin day! The mod is for existing Hornby points already installed- for new stuff do use Peco.

 

again my experience of this mod can make up for a tittering chassis (one wheel off the track), it keeps the wheels in line over the air gap of the frog! It's easier to modify the points than to try and straighten up a built chassis- as long as the chassis is not way out of line.

 

Eoin

[Broithe]

what's all this insulfrog electro frog stuff ?

 

[richrua]

Thanks

[aclass007]

Hi richrua

 

The frog stuff;-

 

The frog is the pointy bit in the middle of the points;

 

Insulfrog is made of plastic and this breaks the track power at this point because when switching the points there would be a short circuit! Not a major problem if your locos have more than one set of pick-ups, if using only one set of pick-ups you have probably noticed a slight stutter of the loco going through the points at slow speed?

 

Electrofrog is made of metal and carries the power through the frog, but requires extra wiring and a switch to change the polarity so that there isn't a short. Then there is no break in the power over the frog.

 

Hope that helps

 

Eoin

 

Which one is more suitable for analogue controlled layouts?

[murrayec]

Which one is more suitable for analogue controlled layouts?

 

Both are fine for an analogue layout, just more work in Electrofrog involving the polarity switch, it's an ascetic thing really- real tracks just don't have a chunk of plastic in the middle of points! see Broithe's pictures above- which looks like the real thing?

 

Eoin

[islandbridgejct]

Both are fine for an analogue layout, just more work in Electrofrog involving the polarity switch, it's an ascetic thing really- real tracks just don't have a chunk of plastic in the middle of points! see Broithe's pictures above- which looks like the real thing?

 

Eoin

 

Oh, you're on the slippery slope there. Real points also don't have truck tyre sized gaps through the crossing or alongside the check rails. They don't have loose heels. They don't have 18" radius. They're at least 35cm long in 4mm scale, and could be up to 60.

 

Be careful before you go down that road - you could end up 3 years along with b****** all to show for yourself. Ask me how I know.

 

If your points are in gauge and working for you, and your wagons are square, just put some silver paint on the top of the frog, some track colour on the side, and carry on.

 

 

Alan

[irishthump]

 

If your points are in gauge and working for you, and your wagons are square, just put some silver paint on the top of the frog, some track colour on the side, and carry on.

 

 

Alan

 

Don't use metallic paint on a plastic frog, the whole point is that it is insulated. Some metallic paints are conductive.

[Broithe]

Don't use metallic paint on a plastic frog, the whole point is that it is insulated. Some metallic paints are conductive.

 

You should get away with it, if it's not connected to the rails.

[irishthump]

You should get away with it, if it's not connected to the rails.

 

You would have to be very careful, there is no gap between the metal and the plastic. And with Peco points the frog is much smaller.

Not to mention the fact that the paint will wear of quite quickly and be spread all over the layout and the wheels of your rolling stock.

Edited June 8, 2015 by irishthump

[Broithe]

You would have to be very careful, there is no gap between the metal and the plastic. And with Peco points the frog is much smaller.

Not to mention the fact that the paint will wear of quite quickly and be spread all over the layout and the wheels of your rolling stock.

 

Indeed, it's just a matter of being careful - and putting up with the paint being removed whenever you clean the track...

 

..or just putting electrofrog in and forgetting about it..

[Dave]

You don't need a polarity switch on an electrofrog point, you do however need to isolate both centre rails coming off the V in the point. As the point switches so does the polarity on the V so one track will have a short on it at any one time.

You only need to switch the polarity with an auxiliary switch when you modify the point so that the V is not relying on getting power from the blades touching the side of the rail, the advantage to modifying the point is better reliability. When you weather the track or when dirt builds up between the blade and the side of the rail you get a bad connection at the V and trains stall. By modifying the point the V gets powered all the time and no longer depends on the connection between the blade and the rail.

[Broithe]

I've used "blade-switching" successfully without much of a problem. It's worth checking each point for clean operation before installation, some tweaking of the wiper contacts is sometimes necessary.

[irishthump]

I've used "blade-switching" successfully without much of a problem. It's worth checking each point for clean operation before installation, some tweaking of the wiper contacts is sometimes necessary.

 

It's best to modify any point (insulfrog or electrofrog) by wiring jumpers between the stock and closure rails. This way you no longer rely on the blades making an electrical connection. You can then paint the sides of the rails to your hearts content and not have to worry about poor conductivity.

[Broithe]

It's best to modify any point (insulfrog or electrofrog) by wiring jumpers between the stock and closure rails. This way you no longer rely on the blades making an electrical connection. You can then paint the sides of the rails to your hearts content and not have to worry about poor conductivity.

 

Indeed, it is more reliable - but you do have to put a switch in then, for the electrofrog arrangement.

[richrua]

hi doods. I fixed some hornby points as Eoin suggested. I used those otherwise useless tiny cable ties to extend and improve the point frogging. Thanks for the advice .