A Class DCC sound by Mr Soundguy

[irishthump]

I just saw this video over on RMWeb and I was surprised I hadn't seen it here. Sounds excellent IMHO.

 

[Junctionmad]

Where can these now be purchased ?

[irishthump]

Where can these now be purchased ?

 

I checked Mr Soundguy's website but he hasn't got these available yet. But he's obviously planning on releasing them soon.

[enniscorthyman]

I posted many many times,video of my A class with

sound on this site.

[Noel]

Nice, but as usual the volume is turned up too high. The noisy baseboard may be drowning out the motor sound. Nice layout though. It's a pity the chassis on that particular A class cannot crawl at low speed like MM/Bachmann diesels. My own is not much better. Tempted to cut and shut a Bachmann CL37 chassis to drive our single A class properly. The MrSoundguy recordings on Zimo chips sound particularly well on 071 and 141 chassis with their excellent crawl capabilities and smooth slow acceleration, unlike Hornby jets that take off at 10mph. The Atlas RSD 4/5 chassis and that sound chip might be perfect under an SF A class body. The real sound of GMs always seemed more 'stirring' and dramatic than the tamer A class prototypes, especially notching.

[irishthump]

I posted many many times,video of my A class with

sound on this site.

 

Apologies, Enniscorthyman!

Yes I've seen your videos, I was just surprised no one had posted that particular video here.

 

@Noel: Sound does seem a little distorted. Maybe he just had the volume turned up for the benefit of the video.

[enniscorthyman]

The video is nice, although I found that the

bass reflex speaker gave great output on my

a class.The A class chip was recorded from

a39 at Downpatrick a few years ago, with the

best part of the recordings done from the rear

cab pushing the empty stock to Inch Abby.

A39 is looked after well and she is not pushed

hard.

[Junctionmad]

I checked Mr Soundguy's website but he hasn't got these available yet. But he's obviously planning on releasing them soon.

 

hmmm, my understanding is that he was working with modelshopbelfast, he used to supply the UK sounds through DCC concepts, but didn't update them to V4 and hence they got dropped. I dont believe he is supplying them directly

 

Pity this avenue has closed, his website is very old

[Noel]

hmmm, my understanding is that he was working with modelshopbelfast, he used to supply the UK sounds through DCC concepts, but didn't update them to V4 and hence they got dropped. I dont believe he is supplying them directly

 

Pity this avenue has closed, his website is very old

 

I bought my Zimo sound project decoders directly from Keith Pearson (i.e. MrSoundguy). He was a gentleman to deal with and even customised the sound projects at my request (i.e. adjustments to function mapping, notch thresholds, duration of breaking sounds, etc). I think MSB tried to give the immersion that it was their product rather than them being a mere dealer.

 

I just love Zimo's 'Real Drive' braking and coasting, but I appreciate it is not every bodies cup of tea. The Zimo chip is even better than the Lenz for drive smoothness and ultra crawl speeds.

[UP6936]

Lovely video!

Noel, dont be getting too hung up on the chassis starting off, after all a real A is quite 'spritely' off the line too. As enniscorthyman says that recording is from 39 and she isnt pushed too hard, for a start she's older than IE's 071s or even 146, and besides an A really motors so its not necessary to push it as far, so that might be why it sounds tamer to you.

[Junctionmad]

I bought my Zimo sound project decoders directly from Keith Pearson (i.e. MrSoundguy). He was a gentleman to deal with and even customised the sound projects at my request (i.e. adjustments to function mapping, notch thresholds, duration of breaking sounds, etc). I think MSB tried to give the immersion that it was their product rather than them being a mere dealer.

 

I just love Zimo's 'Real Drive' braking and coasting, but I appreciate it is not every bodies cup of tea. The Zimo chip is even better than the Lenz for drive smoothness and ultra crawl speeds.

 

the feedback from rmweb, is that he hasn't bothered upgrading the UK sound files to V4 of the Zimo and hence requires V3,5, which is disappearing, maybe he has V4 versions of the irish sound files. have you an email for him ?

 

Mind you I dont think v4 is actually shipping as Zimo keep delaying it.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Junctionmad

[irishthump]

the feedback from rmweb, is that he hasn't bothered upgrading the UK sound files to V4 of the Zimo and hence requires V3,5, which is disappearing, maybe he has V4 versions of the irish sound files. have you an email for him ?

 

Mind you I dont think v4 is actually shipping as Zimo keep delaying it.

 

You're actually talking about ESU Loksound V3.5 and V4.

Mr Soundguy did the first 141/181 sound decoder which was available from DCC supplies and was loaded onto a Loksound V3.5. For whatever reason, Mr Soundguy stopped working with DCC supplies and started supplying the 141 sound file for Model Shop Belfast on Zimo decoders.

You're right though in that the Loksound V3.5 file was never modified to be loaded on to the V4 which was only becoming available at the time. The V3.5 is no longer produced but can sometimes pick them up second hand. I believe DCC Supplies still has the 141 sound file and can "re blow" a V3.5 if you can get your hands on one.

[Noel]

. . .that might be why it sounds tamer to you.

 

Sorry, I meant in general the GM prototypes had a more distinctive and impressive sound to my ears then the re-engined A class MVs which were not as vocal even with the retro fitted EMDs. There were some threads on here that explained why they sounded so different, exhausts, gearing, drive motor, etc.

[Junctionmad]

You're actually talking about ESU Loksound V3.5 and V4.

Mr Soundguy did the first 141/181 sound decoder which was available from DCC supplies and was loaded onto a Loksound V3.5. For whatever reason, Mr Soundguy stopped working with DCC supplies and started supplying the 141 sound file for Model Shop Belfast on Zimo decoders.

You're right though in that the Loksound V3.5 file was never modified to be loaded on to the V4 which was only becoming available at the time. The V3.5 is no longer produced but can sometimes pick them up second hand. I believe DCC Supplies still has the 141 sound file and can "re blow" a V3.5 if you can get your hands on one.

 

Well if its available in Zimo that's actually better.

[UP6936]

Sorry, I meant in general the GM prototypes had a more distinctive and impressive sound to my ears then the re-engined A class MVs which were not as vocal even with the retro fitted EMDs. There were some threads on here that explained why they sounded so different, exhausts, gearing, drive motor, etc.

Apologies Noel, misunderstood you. I get where you're coming from now!

Yes I would agree they sound different. If you haven't heard a re engined C Class in the flesh, let me say they're very vocal and most impressive!

Anyhow I'm getting off topic.

[Junctionmad]

Apologies Noel, misunderstood you. I get where you're coming from now!

Yes I would agree they sound different. If you haven't heard a re engined C Class in the flesh, let me say they're very vocal and most impressive!

Anyhow I'm getting off topic.

 

I agree. The A class had a great distintive more growl like noise rather then. The more high pitched pure gm two stroke

[Junctionmad]

Just an update mrsoundguy will supply the Zimo decoder with sound at 95 sterling.

Sound is certainly very expensive !

 

Is there a cheaper route even using US engine sounds or something

[Warbonnet]

Just an update mrsoundguy will supply the Zimo decoder with sound at 95 sterling.

Sound is certainly very expensive !

 

Is there a cheaper route even using US engine sounds or something

 

You may get US chips at a slightly lower rate but you'd still be talking 90 euro plus. There are some for 40-50 quid mark with generic sounds but they (well to me, anyway) sound dreadful.

 

Hornby and Bachmann US are doing locos with cheap sounds but the former dont do any EMD sounds and the latter use tsunami sound boards which might not be transplantable. Irish Thump has an F Unit with tsunami sounds so he may be able to help there. They're limited in functions but the engine note is spot on for something like a 141 or 121.

[Noel]

Just an update mrsoundguy will supply the Zimo decoder with sound at 95 sterling.

Sound is certainly very expensive !

 

Is there a cheaper route even using US engine sounds or something

 

The Zimo MX644D decoder can be bought for about €82 from German sites (i.e. £60), but you would need a Zimo programmer and sound files to burn onto it. Speaker for a 141/181 is about €6. No speaker needed for 071/201 as chassis include them.

[Junctionmad]

The Zimo MX644D decoder can be bought for about €82 from German sites (i.e. £60), but you would need a Zimo programmer and sound files to burn onto it. Speaker for a 141/181 is about €6. No speaker needed for 071/201 as chassis include them.

 

and of course you need license free sound files that match irish locos

[Irishrailwayman]

You're actually talking about ESU Loksound V3.5 and V4.

Mr Soundguy did the first 141/181 sound decoder which was available from DCC supplies and was loaded onto a Loksound V3.5. For whatever reason, Mr Soundguy stopped working with DCC supplies and started supplying the 141 sound file for Model Shop Belfast on Zimo decoders.

You're right though in that the Loksound V3.5 file was never modified to be loaded on to the V4 which was only becoming available at the time. The V3.5 is no longer produced but can sometimes pick them up second hand. I believe DCC Supplies still has the 141 sound file and can "re blow" a V3.5 if you can get your hands on one.

 

The Irish sound recordings are copyright to Mr SoundGuy (not DCC Supplies or MSB). He now works exclusively with Zimo chips not ESU Loksound. Sound is expensive but only one of each class/livery need have sound as only one or at most two loco's sound can be heard at one time. Unfortunately, the basic soundchips have not come down in price over the years. Mr SoundGuy sells primarily through his own website now and can be contacted directly with queries/orders.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Irishrailwayman

[Dhu Varren]

Without getting into a debate about who owns the copyright to the V3.5 sounds, DCC Supplies still have the 141/181 and 201 sound files for the Loksound V3.5 decoders. I contacted them early 2014, sent them two V3.5 decoders, and they installed 141/181 sound files for me, for a small fee.

[Noel]

DCC sound remains insanely expensive considering the base manufacturing cost difference between drive decoders and sound decoders is a mere fraction of the selling price difference. It's a very small niche market with enormous markup for the manufacturers.

 

I agree its pointless trying to operate more than one sound loco at a time, it's just a dizzy din, hence having just one example of each loco type makes both operational and economic sense. The default sound volume on most decoders out of the box is set way too high IMHO, totally over powering. I've our few sound decoders set to about 20% of volume level.

 

In the long term sound should come down probably driven by the toy segment of the hobby who have always used 'novelties' to market their wares (e.g. smoke generators, operating mail coach scoops, lights, sound, gantry pick ups, coach lights, etc).

 

Personally I think the current DCC NMRA messaging specs and protocol are way beyond its sell by date and needs a revised standard for messaging and data transfer to/from decoders. Technically it is totally jurassic 1980s technology. It should be possible to read or write 500 CVs to or from a decoder sub 2 seconds rather than more than a few minutes pulsing the drive motor with messages like a reliant robin in the 70s. The drive side of DCC is fine, but the interface, API and data transfer is beyond antiquated - its like using MS-DOS in 2015. IMHO DCC in general needs a fresh redesign from scratch. Who nowadays in modern cars knows how to change a fan belt, dip engine oil, change a spark plug, so why should the word CV be even in our vocabulary. Its like trying to develop web applications in assembly language (for IT bods of a certain age who understand my comparison). Current NMRA DCC needs to be buried in order to be reborn for 2015 consumers and pricing rather than the 1980s techno boffins.

 

ESU have made a decent stab of user friendly consoles, but they are still hamstrung with the other manufacturers by slow CV read/write speeds and daft concepts like programming tracks. No human consumer should need to know what a CV is, let alone bit addressing.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Noel

[irishthump]

The Zimo MX644D decoder can be bought for about €82 from German sites (i.e. £60), but you would need a Zimo programmer and sound files to burn onto it. Speaker for a 141/181 is about €6. No speaker needed for 071/201 as chassis include them.

 

That's where I find the ESU Loksound comes out ahead. The Lokprogrammer is around €140 and all the sound files are free to download from ESU. They have a large collection of European and American sound files (as well as miscellaneous sounds) which can be mixed and matched to any degree. The decoders are a bit more expensive, around €99 from some suppliers and come with a speaker (although the speaker is too large for 141/181 locos.

 

Maplins sell a speaker for €4.50 which is suitable.

 

 

It's a drop-in fit for the speaker cradle on the 141/181.

 

[irishthump]

You may get US chips at a slightly lower rate but you'd still be talking 90 euro plus. There are some for 40-50 quid mark with generic sounds but they (well to me, anyway) sound dreadful.

 

Hornby and Bachmann US are doing locos with cheap sounds but the former dont do any EMD sounds and the latter use tsunami sound boards which might not be transplantable. Irish Thump has an F Unit with tsunami sounds so he may be able to help there. They're limited in functions but the engine note is spot on for something like a 141 or 121.

 

Like Warbonnet says the Bachmann F units I have use a budget version of the Tsunami. I posted this video before, but here it is again....

 

 

The sound quality is the same as the high end Tsunamis, but there are very few other features. No start-up or shutdown sequence, and only horn and bell. The horn has 3 different sounds to choose from but none of them would pass for an Irish loco! However the decoder is fully adjustable for motor control and the engine sound can be adjusted for manual notching.

 

To be honest I wouldn't bother with trying to use US decoders for Irish diesels. The engine sounds are bang on for 121/141/071 and 201's but the lack of correct horns is a big problem. Another factor is that design of the Tsunami means you would have to remove the existing circuit board from a MM loco and wire in the Tsunami. Not a huge or difficult job but why bother when you can plug a 21 pin Loksound or Zimo straight into the existing circuit board?

[Noel]

That engine sounds great. A great recording.

[DiveController]

That's where I find the ESU Loksound comes out ahead. The Lokprogrammer is around €140 and all the sound files are free to download from ESU. They have a large collection of European and American sound files (as well as miscellaneous sounds) which can be mixed and matched to any degree. The decoders are a bit more expensive, around €99 from some suppliers and come with a speaker (although the speaker is too large for 141/181 locos.

 

Maplins sell a speaker for €4.50 which is suitable.

 

IT, I like the idea of drop-in and play rather than having to shave bits off speakers or the loco body. I wonder how it compares to the bass reflex speakers that members seem to speak highly of? Anyone happen to have compared these two speakers?

[Junctionmad]

DCC sound remains insanely expensive considering the base manufacturing cost difference between drive decoders and sound decoders is a mere fraction of the selling price difference. It's a very small niche market with enormous markup for the manufacturers.

 

I agree its pointless trying to operate more than one sound loco at a time, it's just a dizzy din, hence having just one example of each loco type makes both operational and economic sense. The default sound volume on most decoders out of the box is set way too high IMHO, totally over powering. I've our few sound decoders set to about 20% of volume level.

 

In the long term sound should come down probably driven by the toy segment of the hobby who have always used 'novelties' to market their wares (e.g. smoke generators, operating mail coach scoops, lights, sound, gantry pick ups, coach lights, etc).

 

Personally I think the current DCC NMRA messaging specs and protocol are way beyond its sell by date and needs a revised standard for messaging and data transfer to/from decoders. Technically it is totally jurassic 1980s technology. It should be possible to read or write 500 CVs to or from a decoder sub 2 seconds rather than more than a few minutes pulsing the drive motor with messages like a reliant robin in the 70s. The drive side of DCC is fine, but the interface, API and data transfer is beyond antiquated - its like using MS-DOS in 2015. IMHO DCC in general needs a fresh redesign from scratch. Who nowadays in modern cars knows how to change a fan belt, dip engine oil, change a spark plug, so why should the word CV be even in our vocabulary. Its like trying to develop web applications in assembly language (for IT bods of a certain age who understand my comparison). Current NMRA DCC needs to be buried in order to be reborn for 2015 consumers and pricing rather than the 1980s techno boffins.

 

ESU have made a decent stab of user friendly consoles, but they are still hamstrung with the other manufacturers by slow CV read/write speeds and daft concepts like programming tracks. No human consumer should need to know what a CV is, let alone bit addressing.

 

I think long term , sound will be a major part of diesel models in particular, it sounds daft on steam models. It will get integrated better and be a useful addition

 

as for DCC, well its a favourite drum of yours Noel, in reality the on-track spec of DCC combined with Railcom, sorts most of the issues you mention. BUT NMRA is riven with politics and the influence of Digitrak, the issues with Lenz etc are well documented. This has lead to DCC stalling .

 

There is no alternative standard on the horizon. CV programming could be fixed by adding railcom as CVs can be programmed on the main and fast too, after that its just user interface software

 

2015 consumers and pricing rather than the 1980s techno boffins.

arguably the hobby is not " little boys with train sets " anymore, hence the 2015 costumer is a techno modelling boffin

 

as you know I have my own DCC system, with my own software via MERG, with software I can actually deal with the majority of issues you mention

 

for example Railcom+ can identify locos and extract CVs from a database and program the loco without further user intervention

 

its all there already Noel, it just requires $$$$

[irishthump]

IT, I like the idea of drop-in and play rather than having to shave bits off speakers or the loco body. I wonder how it compares to the bass reflex speakers that members seem to speak highly of? Anyone happen to have compared these two speakers?

 

I plan to soon, I haven't had a chance to install a Loksound into this loco yet. But the speaker is the same one in the 071 which always sound fine to me. I'm sure you would get a bit more "low end" from a bass reflex speaker but I doubt it would make a huge difference.

 

I used the bass reflex in my other 141's but I refused to cut up the loco so I simply removed the back from the speaker. Did'nt seem to effect the sound.

[Noel]

I plan to soon, I haven't had a chance to install a Loksound into this loco yet. But the speaker is the same one in the 071 which always sound fine to me. I'm sure you would get a bit more "low end" from a bass reflex speaker but I doubt it would make a huge difference.

 

I used the bass reflex in my other 141's but I refused to cut up the loco so I simply removed the back from the speaker. Did'nt seem to effect the sound.

 

Ditto. I fitted a bass-enhanced speaker which dropped into the ready made speaker cradle in MM 141s, and like you just removed the rear speaker case. I used blu-tac to stop the speaker creating a resonant vibration against the cradle housing. Sounds every bit as well as the speakers supplied with MM 071s. Just solder two wires onto the PC+ and PC- holes of the 141 PCB and plug the 21 pin decoder in.

[Noel]

I think long term , sound will be a major part of diesel models in particular, it sounds daft on steam models. It will get integrated better and be a useful addition

 

as for DCC, well its a favourite drum of yours Noel, in reality the on-track spec of DCC combined with Railcom, sorts most of the issues you mention. BUT NMRA is riven with politics and the influence of Digitrak, the issues with Lenz etc are well documented. This has lead to DCC stalling .

 

There is no alternative standard on the horizon. CV programming could be fixed by adding railcom as CVs can be programmed on the main and fast too, after that its just user interface software

 

 

arguably the hobby is not " little boys with train sets " anymore, hence the 2015 costumer is a techno modelling boffin

 

as you know I have my own DCC system, with my own software via MERG, with software I can actually deal with the majority of issues you mention

 

for example Railcom+ can identify locos and extract CVs from a database and program the loco without further user intervention

 

its all there already Noel, it just requires $$$$

 

As you say the problem seems stagnation on the part of existing manufacturers and the age demographics of many of the folks who influence NMRA. Very conservative group. It would be a brave group of manufacturers who broke away and tried to invent a new standard, but if key players like Lenz, ESU, Roco, Zimo and Bachmann came up with a new form of DCC it should ultimately survive and the out of date US manufactures forced to follow. If they were clever with the design new decoders could be dual standard and work on NMRA DCC or new protocols which would avoid the need for a 'big bang' switch over on the part of consumers.

 

As to 'little boys with train sets' in truth that's really what most of us are, big kids with slightly more subtle toys dressed up as 'serious modelling' or 'the hobby' to disguise the simple truth we are really just big kids in disguise, with a pleasant dose of eccentricity added for colour. We all need to get out more.