Bulleid's Turf Burner

[grandad]

I am in the process of scratch building a model of Bulleid's turf burner. I have a copy of Ernie Shepherd's book but all the photographs of the loco seem to be of the same side. I need a photo of the other side. I need to understand what differences there are between both sides. For example. At one end, furthest from the camera, is a set of small recessed panels which may be connected to the , presumably, turf bunker. Do these appear on the other side of the loco? The photos show a pair of windows between both driving cabs which I assume are part of the gangway between the cabs. Do these windows appear on the other side because the boiler is offset to allow for the gangway.

[murrayec]

Hi grandad

 

The picture at bottom page 68 of Shepherd's book is telling- one can see through both cabs to sky beyond! she's got to be the same on both sides- windows at least. And, it's a while since I read the text and I do remember something about offset boiler, but the drawing on page 48 shows the boiler in the middle- so gangways both sides by the drawing

 

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

I have to say I don't think there was much difference each side, but I could be wrong in details. Dunno about roof.

 

If you can get to the NRM in York, check out the John Click photo collection which show blow-by-blow photos of construction details. Every rivet is covered. Click was one of Oliver Bullied's sidekicks.

 

Bullied was apparently an odd, and not very likeable person. When Inchicore technicians, drivers and staff engaged in building it pointed out various design difficulties, Bullied didn't want to know. "Well, FIX it!" was his standard reply as he walked off......

[StevieB]

There are four pages on the turf burner, 0-6-6-0T CC1 as OVSB designated it, in Brian Haresnape's A Pictorial History of Bulleid Locomotives - fascinating stuff. Apparently he had obtained approval for the construction of 50 turf burning/oil fired steam locos, the intention being for these to be a production run of the turf burner when that had been proved in turf burning mode - sadly it was not to be.

 

Stephen

[grandad]

There are four pages on the turf burner, 0-6-6-0T CC1 as OVSB designated it, in Brian Haresnape's A Pictorial History of Bulleid Locomotives - fascinating stuff. Apparently he had obtained approval for the construction of 50 turf burning/oil fired steam locos, the intention being for these to be a production run of the turf burner when that had been proved in turf burning mode - sadly it was not to be.

 

Stephen

 

I now really need to understand where this feature is on the opposite side of the loco. Is this feature on the same end as it is on photographs or at the other end?

 

I am pretty confident that the intermediate windows are on both sides regardless of the offset boiler

[GSR 800]

Hi grandad, welcome to the forum

Have a look at this thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/4248-Turf-Burner-Model?highlight=Turf+Burner

I think Dave(Wrenniere) of this forum has a brass model

[WRENNEIRE]

From one Grandad to another:

I have been speaking to my O Gauge Brass Guru and he will bring his O Gauge Turf Burner to the club this evening

I will take some pics and stick them on later

[grandad]

Wrennaire, that is brilliant - thanks

[leslie10646]

From another grandad -

 

If you e-mail me on

 

lesliemcallister@aol.com

 

I'll send you some stuff from the Ron Pocklington collection, in the hands of the IRRS London Area and held by me.

 

Ron was the actual detail designer of much of the loco; Click was very much involved also, of course.

 

As for Bulleid's reluctance with the project (which was politically motivated, in an attempt to use non-imported fuel) my contact suggests that as he was so tied up with getting the British made diesels to work, he did not want to spend any time on the TB project. Likewise, the Inchicore staff were reluctant to get involved, for much the same reason. Thus Pocklington and Click did most, if not all of the engineering drawings themselves.

 

I covered this in a talk entitled "The Third Man" given to the IRRS in London some years ago, related in Belfast to the RPSI. I met Pocklington when he came on tour with me some years ago.

 

Good luck with the model, by the way!

 

Leslie

[WRENNEIRE]

Couple of pics from last night

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As can be seen some are works still in progress but all built by Brendan, the blessings of God on his curly hair.

Click this link for some more pics of these locos and some more bits

http://s612.photobucket.com/user/WRENNEIRE/library/Irish%20O%20Gauge?sort=3&page=1

[Mayner]

I now really need to understand where this feature is on the opposite side of the loco. [ATTACH=CONFIG]22848[/ATTACH] Is this feature on the same end as it is on photographs or at the other end?

 

I am pretty confident that the intermediate windows are on both sides regardless of the offset boiler

 

I have a copy of "The Turf Burner" by J P Rowledge, it contains a GA and diagrams of the gas, steam and water circuits but no plan view.

 

 

Both sides of the loco may have looked the same and the boiler may have been centred than offset.

 

"The design was double ended, the girder frames centrally supporting the boiler, but differed from the Leader by having bunker and water tanks at each end. This layout was basically the Fairlie system"

 

"The boiler was enclosed within the body and each driving cab had only one door on the left side facing the direction of travel" "

 

The layout of CC1 was 'mirrored" along its centre line apart from the driving position, the air compressor and some of the brake fittings.

 

The feature on the side of the loco and access panels on the ends appears to be connected with the feedwater heaters and gas system (heat exchangers?).

[jhb171achill]

Some mighty stuff there, Wrenn! Love the GSWR 4.4.0!

[Horsetan]

.... some are works still in progress but all built by Brendan, the blessings of God on his curly hair.

Click this link for some more pics of these locos and some more bits

http://s612.photobucket.com/user/WRENNEIRE/library/Irish%20O%20Gauge?sort=3&page=1

 

Does anyone else see the style and ghost of Drew Donaldson in these models? The GS&WR 4-4-0 in particular.....

[GSR 800]

Does anyone else see the style and ghost of Drew Donaldson in these models? The GS&WR 4-4-0 in particular.....

 

Very much so, except Drew painted everything, from his 800s to his G2s in CIE green..

[David Holman]

Very tasty indeed - the 4-4-0s that is. That Turfburner was an ugly so and so!

[murrayec]

Hi David

 

Your right there man! I know it was a test bed prototyping thing but he could have made it a bit more appealing, it might have got better support to....

 

On the subject of the side elevations- I thinking the design was handed! that is the driver cab with the door is diagonally across the boiler from the other driver cab? this is why it looks like there is photos of one side only in the Shepherd book. That would mean the detail photo granddad posted above would be at the other end- other side!

 

Eoin

[grandad]

I have come to the conclusion described by murrayec. I fact there is one photo which does not show a bundle of tubing alongside the chassis member, which suggests that it is the "other side" that I have been looking for. This is what bears out murrayec's observation. So, construction will continue based on this assumption. Many thanks for all of the help given. When this one is finished, it is back on to Leader - version 3!!

[Horsetan]

....Bullied was apparently an odd, and not very likeable person. When Inchicore technicians, drivers and staff engaged in building it pointed out various design difficulties, Bullied didn't want to know. "Well, FIX it!" was his standard reply as he walked off......

There is a story told that he once vented his frustration, saying "Why can I not find the people to make my ideas work?"

 

His style was idiosyncratic (like Citroën before Peugeot took over), and he could certainly seem aloof or remote. The correspondence between him and Ricardo Engineering suggests a man who would listen but always go his own way.

 

I'm not sure that he was as unpopular in Inchicore as some might think - if anything, as a devout Catholic, he had the respect of Inchicore men, if not their loyalty.

 

In that repressed era, I think those who dealt with Bulleid (or the aftermath of his work) had to be equivocal about their views. Thus you will find material saying that R.A. Riddles on British Railways had quite a bit of respect for Bulleid, and other material that suggests Riddles thought Bulleid to be a charlatan!

[grandad]

There is a story told that he once vented his frustration, saying "Why can I not find the people to make my ideas work?"

 

His style was idiosyncratic (like Citroën before Peugeot took over), and he could certainly seem aloof or remote. The correspondence between him and Ricardo Engineering suggests a man who would listen but always go his own way.

 

I'm not sure that he was as unpopular in Inchicore as some might think - if anything, as a devout Catholic, he had the respect of Inchicore men, if not their loyalty.

 

In that repressed era, I think those who dealt with Bulleid (or the aftermath of his work) had to be equivocal about their views. Thus you will find material saying that R.A. Riddles on British Railways had quite a bit of respect for Bulleid, and other material that suggests Riddles thought Bulleid to be a charlatan!

 

It is interesting that our Mr. Bulleid had connections with Ricardo Engineering because I ended up working for them for 10ish years when they bought the company that I was working for - F F Developments, pioneers of 4 wheel drive transmissions.