MGWR Inspection Saloon

[Richard EH]

Hi all. Any interest in this one? A 4mm scale 3d print of a lovely MGWR inspection saloon No 352. The design is approaching completion, I'm hoping to get it test printed before Christmas, before release early in the New Year.

[Mayner]

Hi Richard. 

Small point it looks like GSWR saloon 353 which survived in service until 1964. Looks a nice model interesting to see that you have incorporated NEM pockets in the bogie design.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, it is indeed the GSWR one. The MGWR one was a very different design indeed, with curved end corner panoramic windows but no open balcony. It was twelve wheeled and was probably the single most luxurious railway carriage ever to run in Ireland.

Incidentally, any MGWR coach or wagon which survived into the GSR or CIE era had an "M" after its number, thus an ex-MGWR coach no. 139 would now be 139M.

[Richard EH]

Evening all!

 

Yes, apologies, sorry for the confusion. There's a photo of it on page 18 of Des's book - numbered 352 (Quite clearly), though described as 353. I do rather like it, it's a train in one....! I've drawn it up from the photo, and the drawing in the 'Transport Planning Associates' book which I managed to get sight of at the NRM. As luck would have it, I was at Warley at the weekend, and it looks like a much better drawing has been found. I'll keep the thread updated on how the project develops over the next few months....

Cheers for now.

 

Richard.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

A model of this would be a REAL beauty. Old GSWR / MGWR types, many of which ran in traffic well into the 1960s, haven't ever had anything like enough attention paid to them.

[Old Blarney]

Richard,

What a beauty!  That coach would be a prize on Old Blarney. A yes from me.

JB. Can you provide information on the liveries this coach ran in?

 GSWR, GSR and then into CIE Green i suppose?

Did this coach run in various CIE Greens?

David White.  

 

[jhb171achill]

David

Yes. GSWR first of course, probably including the white upper panels for some or most of the time (all-over dark purple maroon being the norm for less salubrious stock). Under the GSR it's unlikely it wore the short lived chocolate & cream as it wouldn't have needed repainting very often, so if it got a repaint after around 1933 it would have been the later "LMS" shade maroon like all GSR repaints after that date. 1945 onwards the darker (bus / steam loco shade) CIE green with full gold-lined "eau de nil" snail and lining. I never saw a picture of it in that livery but it must have carried it within that period. Latterly, as shown in many photos of it on the IRRS special to Castlecomer, it had the second green livery, the lighter shade with a single lining at waist level. Thus, as you say, both of the two green liveries.

One wonders what it would have looked like in black'n'tan....

There had been talk of preserving it. It could therefore have ended up in Cultra....

Edited February 6, 2018 by jhb171achill

[minister_for_hardship]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

There had been talk of preserving it. It could therefore have ended up in Cultra....

iirc, spotted a photo, taken in Inchicore, of this somewhere.

It was earmarked for an IRRS trip, but a rough shunt condemned it. Part of metalwork on the balcony can be seen as having broken away.

 

[Richard EH]

On ‎29‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 8:55 AM, minister_for_hardship said:

iirc, spotted a photo, taken in Inchicore, of this somewhere.

It was earmarked for an IRRS trip, but a rough shunt condemned it. Part of metalwork on the balcony can be seen as having broken away.

 

The photo's in Des Coakham's 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages, page 18 - sporting the rough shunt damage that appears to have condemned it. Looks to me as though it's in green with a stripe, no flying snail, just a number.

Cheers for now.

Richard.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

That's correct, Richard, so it never got black'n'tan. It would have been the post-1955 green, as seen on DCDR's TPO and (a few years back) the RPSI (Dublin based) Heritage set.

[DERAILED]

Just to add some more confusion...

 

Here is GSWR 353 as supplied and in Enniscorthy in 1966. The latter for sale today on eBay here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-Slide-IRELAND-CIE-Coras-Iompair-Eireann-Attymon-Carriage-Enniscorthy-1960/372208047315?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

But what is the last one? 

 

[jhb171achill]

Well, I've no idea what an "Attymon Carriage Enniscorthy" is....typical ebay drivel caption....

That last scene is clearly for a film, but which one?

What's the carriage? The dull grey / green (certainly not CIE's) maybe intended to be wartime Italy or Germany?

 

 

[DERAILED]

The German one is also in Enniscorthy circa 1969 for the filming of "Underground" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_(1970_film) 

I have it on VHS but I'm too tired tonight to drag out the VCR from wherever I've put it but I'm almost positive that it was also a balcony end carriage. A Maybach also featured in the filming at Enniscorthy. I'll try and find it tomorrow. 

[Glenderg]

Yer man's ladder isn't worth a fiddlers, state of it. 

[WRENNEIRE]

Obviously taken in Ireland, right hand drive bike.

[jhb171achill]

Looking closer at that wartime film coach..... it is NOT the GSWR one shown above. I don't know what it is myself, though the design of it looks vaguely GNR.

The balcony ended coach was 352, I believe, not 353, and it was scrapped in 1964. I had thought 1966 was a bit late for that vehicle, as was the green livery for a vehicle like that (though green was still to be seen on Park Royals and other "ordinary" stock). I wonder if that pic was taken on an IRRS trip ("outing", as they still quaintly, and somewhat worryingly, call it!) to Castlecomer in the early 60s? That was, I believe, one of the last times  - if not THE last - that this beauty saw a day out in traffic.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by jhb171achill

[Eiretrains]

According to Railfans News (full details August 1969, No.3), the vintage carriage used in the film shoot at Enniscorthy was saloon carriage 150N (in NIR ownership), an illustration of the complete unusual train appears in IRRS Journal No. 185. The photo of GSWR No. 352 is likely on the IRRS outing of 9 July 1960, the one via Ballylinan and Palace East.

[DERAILED]

Just watched the film again tonight and my memory had been playing tricks as the saloon had no balconies.

E424 was the Maybach involved. 

During the film the French resistance lads go "underground" in Lett's brewery Enniscorthy - encounter a train of Guinness narrow gauge wagons being shunted - before re-emerging under a lorry parked outside Lett's brewery in Enniscorthy. Some tunnel Enniscorthy/St.James Gate!

The GSWR Carriage Diagrams book by Pender & Richards (1976) would have supplied all the answers - alas my copy long since sold.

[DERAILED]

54 minutes ago, Eiretrains said:

According to Railfans News (full details August 1969, No.3), the vintage carriage used in the film shoot at Enniscorthy was saloon carriage 150N (in NIR ownership), an illustration of the complete unusual train appears in IRRS Journal No. 185. The photo of GSWR No. 352 is likely on the IRRS outing of 9 July 1960, the one via Ballylinan and Palace East.

What's happened to the Irish Railfans News online? Page is gone off RPSI site.

[jhb171achill]

I knew it. It's GNR No. 50, the erstwhile Director's Saloon, latterly used by the GNR's Civil Engineer as an inspection car.

[iarnrod]

Herbert Richard's book gives the following details about 352 :

Built : 1912

Withdrawn : 1964

Weight : 24.5 tonnes

Length over headstocks : 42' 0"

Bogie Centres : 27' 0"

Bogie Wheelbase : 8' 0"

Wheel diameter : 3' 7"

Width over sides : 9' 0"

Height over roof : 12' 0"

Seating : 16 1st Class

 

G.S.&W.R. Carriage Register lists the coach as an Inspection Saloon. Listed as having 2 Saloon compartments and 1 attendant compartment, gas lighting, 1 lavatory and weight as 24T 6C 1Qtr.

Built June 1912. double braked, handbrake fitted, steam heated and with G&C brake.

Edited February 6, 2018 by iarnrod

[jhb171achill]

37 minutes ago, DERAILED said:

What's happened to the Irish Railfans News online? Page is gone off RPSI site.

Long gone. Nobody at all was posting any more, or reading it.