UTA 2-6-0 Ex-NCC 'Earl of Ulster'

[GNRi1959]

I thought this nice 2-6-0 was a pretty close match to the Ex-NCC locos that came through the Derry Road in the latter days of service. Bought this today for £50 and plan on some weathering and applying UTA numbers and crest. 

Does it look alright apart from shorter chimney and dome?

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by GNRi1959

[RobertRoche]

I have a Bachmann Fairburn tank that I am hoing to make into No. 4. It will require some filling and I am going to try Milliput to shape a taller dome on it. I don't know anything about the above loco, but it looks like a fair representation.

[jhb171achill]

A little bit of adjustment to the front running plate, and a simple job on the cab and its a reasonable approximation, certainly!

I've seen very convincing conversions of Fairbairn tanks to NCC "WT" class.

[David Holman]

I would say it is a fair way short. The NCC moguls had 6' driving wheels, the 76XXX were only 5'8. The footplate on the latter is noticeably higher, while the NCC loco has very different dome & chimney. Add in the front footplate, smokebox door, handrails, buffers and all sorts of plumbing and it looks like a lot of work. However,  all these would be doable I suppose if the key dimensions match up: wheel spacings and boiler diameter especially. Otherwise, however much you do, it will still not look like it is supposed to. Depends how accurate you want it to be.

[Mayner]

You could always work on the assumption that the BTC continued to operate the NCC and eventually took over the County Down and the GNR lines in Northern Ireland and introduced BR Standard types.  At least this way you can start running trains quickly when you are concentrating on tracklaying buildings and scenery and leave the Irish rolling stock for a later day

The Class 4MT moguls with smaller wheels than the NCC moguls and a tapered boiler would have been ideal for freight service on the Great Northern Derry Road.

Incidentally the ex NCC Moguls took over a lot of the freight working on the Derry Road in the 1960s, there are several photos and videos of Moguls in freight service on the Derry Road. The Moguls appear to have had a lower load rating than the ex GNR SG3 and were less popular with drivers and firemen than the ex-GNR SG3 or Big D 0-6-0s which show up in photos of the Market Shunts and the loco stabled in the goods yard after the loco shed was closed.

[GNRi1959]

On 1/8/2018 at 9:31 PM, David Holman said:

I would say it is a fair way short. The NCC moguls had 6' driving wheels, the 76XXX were only 5'8. The footplate on the latter is noticeably higher, while the NCC loco has very different dome & chimney. Add in the front footplate, smokebox door, handrails, buffers and all sorts of plumbing and it looks like a lot of work. However,  all these would be doable I suppose if the key dimensions match up: wheel spacings and boiler diameter especially. Otherwise, however much you do, it will still not look like it is supposed to. Depends how accurate you want it to be.

David, in fairness - if I were to get worried about 4" of driving wheel difference (less than 1.5mm) I'd just hang up my modelling boots. The other cosmetic differences could be remedied if I wanted. However, the balance here is between absolutely Irish, or nothing at all. A majority of the folk on this forum are modelling 'Irish' on 00 gauge track work which is miles out, a very insignificant number are modelling 5'3" and the rest just want to enjoy their hobby. I'm trying to make the best of what the market has to offer, what looks good and what I want to spend.

Edited January 12, 2018 by GNRi1959

[Dhu Varren]

2 hours ago, GNRi1959 said:

David, in fairness - if I were to get worried about 4" of driving wheel difference (less than 1.5mm) I'd just hang up my modelling boots. The other cosmetic differences could be remedied if I wanted. However, the balance here is between absolutely Irish, or nothing at all. A majority of the folk on this forum are modelling 'Irish' on 00 gauge track work which is miles out, a very insignificant number are modelling 5'3" and the rest just want to enjoy their hobby. I'm trying to make the best of what the market has to offer, what looks good and what I want to spend.

I am far from being a purist, but I have to agree with David Holman. The NCC Mogul and the BR 76xxx have absolutely nothing in common, except for the 2-6-0 wheel arrangement, and conversion to a reasonable representation of a NCC Mogul would require an incredible amount of work, starting with 'remove the body, throw it away, and scratchbuild a new one'. Just about everything is wrong with the 76XXX, including the major fact that the boiler is a tapered boiler, whereas the NCC Mogul has a parallel boiler.

A much better option as a starter for the Derry Road would be an Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 4F 0-6-0, which, with very little modification would pass for a GNR Big D SG3. 

[GNRi1959]

Yes, of course there are better options. The eBay seller has accepted a return. Better again!

[GNRi1959]

I'd be interested in David (Holmans) opinion of this loco as a GNRi look-a-like?

 

 

[jhb171achill]

It's a better bet than the 2.6.0. As mentioned by others, an LMS 0.6.0 probably needs least work, though I would think there are a number of 0.6.0 tender locos that could be at the very least "botched" into a reasonable approximation, and others that a more ambitious conversion would be suitable for.

In your period of modelling, (1950s, if I'm not mistaken) locos of this type would have practically monopolised goods traffic, so 0.6.0s of some sort are essential. In the fifties, the NCC locos had yet to appear on the line at all.

[Mayner]

A LMS 4F is a lot closer to a GNR SG3 in general appearance than a 700 class (once you modify the cab and firebox). 

Modifying the smokebox on the 700 Class to resemble a GN loco would be a major job, in fact the 700 looks reasonably close to the CIE/GSR/GSWR 257 J4 Class in its original state with extended smokebox and round topped firebox

 

[jhb171achill]

I think if it was me, I'd probably get a trio of LMS 0.6.0s and alter them. At a later date I'd try to add whatever I could best convert to a 4-coach AEC set.

Edited January 14, 2018 by jhb171achill

[Andy Cundick]

Theres always the 2f to consider,vaguely Aish with the lights turned off,Andy. 

[David Holman]

Have to agree with the others, a 4F is way better than a LSWR 'Black Motor', however nice the model & prototype are. I have every sympathy for 4mm, steam outline, modellers - there is not a great deal to go on, though the Woolwich Moguls don't need much work. There is however some merit in Mayner's ideas of 'might have beens' - or indeed, even a bit of freelancing. At the end of the day, you do what you like with your own railway and if a model runs well, so much the better. However, trying to make things a realistic as possible is what works for me, which is why this forum is so useful in terms of improving accuracy.

[burnthebox]

I have to say this thing of making a model loco look so perfectly like, or as near like a prototype as possible leaves me asking why !  This is supposed to be a hobby !!! Of course there are people on here who wouldn't entertain anything else, & the very best of luck to each & every one of them,  & if any of them decide to dismantle a loco & bash it, bend it into what they decide is more to their train ( no pun intended ) of thought & style,  then so be it.   To me if I can lay my paws on something that to my Specsaver eyes, looks a bit like what I have in mind  & with a bit of graft,  tweaking or whatever, I'll be happy to run this loco on my layout & as said before, if it passes the 2 foot rule then it'll do for me,  I actually have 2 LMS 0-6-0's  that I intend to get bashed,  bent into shape....but this will not be done by me, I hope it'll be done by someone who has the skills, I know my limits.. .. I'm not looking to have a model bashed or styled into something looking so perfectly similar or identical  to a prototype that'll be sitting in a glass case up on a shelf, I enjoy playing trains,  each to his own.......just saying.

BTB

Edited January 17, 2018 by burnthebox

[David Holman]

And that is the joy of our hobby. Some folk like collecting, others like operating, some get a buzz from the electronic side of things. 

 I quite enjoy operating, but making things is what I really enjoy and while some specialise in locos, or buildings or scenery, I enjoy all aspects because of the diversity and challenge it offers.

 All I would say to anyone is don't be afraid to have a go. We all had to start somewhere but as Henry Ford once said, 'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!'