Availability of CIE (1945-55) green paint

[jhb171achill]

I have been put in touch with a gentleman named Derek Farrelly, who some of you may know.

Derek has very kindly given me the reference numbers for the authentic green used by CIE on buses and road lorries 1945-62, on such steam locos as were green, and on coaching stock until 1955.

The references are:

Dark green (body colour) -  BS 381C 226

Light green ("eau-de-nil" for lining) -  BS 381C 216

My thanks to Jim Poots for the introduction.

In an exchange of emails, I am investigating the possibility of a supply being made up in small tins for us model people - bus or rail. With growing popularity of the "grey & green" era, as well as "black'n'tan", I wonder what level of interest there may be.

If nothing else, it will solve the question of what shade is right, for those not lucky enough to remember the real thing. 

[jhb171achill]

Derek recommends a supplier called Vinny Byrne's, who has outlets in Ballyfermot and Santry. He tells me that if they are given that code they'll make it up. I don't know, however, if there's a minimum quantity.

I'd be happy to join in with anyone else to get a supply if that's necessary. I would think a matt version would be best.

[Mayner]

Automotive paint suppliers like Vinny Byrne's can usually supply enamel or laquer in spray can or for brush application if you have a BS or RAL code or a sample. Usually costs about $17 (not sure what you would pay in Ireland) for a 350ltr spray can of a custom colour

My local paint supplier has successfully colour matched existing models, no shame in bringing a loco or coach into a paint suppliers, they are only interested in keeping the customer happy and bringing in the money.

Transfer/decal carrier film tends to show up on a matt finish unless you use rub on decals.

A gloss or satin enamel is the best option for locos and coaches and finishing with a satin or flat laquer if you intend to apply decals or transfers.

[Tarabuses]

Jim Poots already supplies small tins of CIE green and eau de nil for his bus models.  I'm sure other colours could be produced if there was sufficient demand.

[johnminnitt]

This place lists those BS codes, I don't know how good their paint is though.

http://www.autocustompaint.co.uk/Pages/BritishStandardPaint.aspx

and - https://www.riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk/cheap-british-standard-bs381c-paint/

Edited March 1, 2018 by johnminnitt

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Tarabuses said:

Jim Poots already supplies small tins of CIE green and eau de nil for his bus models.  I'm sure other colours could be produced if there was sufficient demand.

I had gone to Jim initially. He told me he is out of CIE green and it was in fact he who suggested Derek Farrelly, and in turn Derek suggested Vinny Byrne!

[Tarabuses]

Jim did tell me that he buys the paint in bulk and puts it in the small tins himself.  I presume he only does this for current kits.  It's a pity he could not help us with railway colours.

[murrayec]

Hi Guys

Just to connect this thread with another on the same subject about paint & decal colours for future reference;-

and there is another one;-

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by murrayec

[jhb171achill]

Hot off the press, thanks to Robert Gardiner, GM of DCDR: the pre-1955 dark green, post-1955 mid green and the EDN paints are coded as follows:

Dark Green is BS381C/227

Lighter Green is RAL6001 

Eau de Nil is BS381C/216 

The last one I'm not sure about on paper, but on vehicles at Downpatrick it is quite correct.

 

[jhb171achill]

Green.....  accurate, though in this light, and with new paint, as under the floodlights at Ballyglunin for the "Quiet Man" scenes, the dark green shows as bright as it ever was. After being in traffic, it toned down and could look a bit darker and a lot "flatter".

The above weathered would do the trick on a model.  EDN shows accurately here - on my screen anyway!

[Glenderg]

Just stumbled on this - 1947 - Colour film. http://ifiplayer.ie/monsignor-reid-collection-castlerea-train-station-1937/

There's even a shot of the twin straw lined crimson/maroon coaches too! Enjoy JB! R. 

 

[jhb171achill]

Superb stuff - seen that before - early colour film. I think it was 1946 or 1947, so the green paint on the carriages isn't that old, yet it's well weathered already. Such was life in steam days with steam and smoke swirling about.

You'll note the first carriage is still in GSR lined maroon.

Edited March 10, 2018 by jhb171achill

[Noel]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

You'll note the first carriage is still in GSR lined maroon.

Yes I did.  Super find Richie.

[Glenderg]

54 minutes ago, Glenderg said:

There's even a shot of the twin straw lined crimson/maroon coaches too!

Is there an echo in here?  

[jhb171achill]

That's the one I meant - the one immediately behind the engine.

The station is also still painted in the green used for stations by the GSR (CIE weren't the first to do this!), though its all faded.

[Mayner]

Interesting one JHB oil burning ex-MGWR Cattle Engine J5 0-6-0 on the passenger rather than an Ex MGWR C 4-4-0 (D6 or D7), well dressed people at the station, good to see that everything wasn't in black and white those days well dressed people at the station.

 

[DiveController]

On 3/10/2018 at 5:05 PM, jhb171achill said:

The station is also still painted in the green used for stations by the GSR (CIE weren't the first to do this!), though its all faded.

 I had noticed the green and it looked more like EDN than anything else, Any insights into what the GSR green looked like, when new, @jhb171achill? Is the water tank in green also or grey, (hard to decipher tints correctly on this film)?

 

On 3/11/2018 at 4:43 AM, Mayner said:

Interesting one JHB oil burning ex-MGWR Cattle Engine J5 0-6-0 on the passenger rather than an Ex MGWR C 4-4-0 (D6 or D7), well dressed people at the station, good to see that everything wasn't in black and white those days well dressed people at the station.

Thanks for that observation, John. I had noticed the odd 'crest' ob the tender and had forgotten about the large white? disc on tenders of oil burning engines.

 

Can anyone tell me what is covering the upper portions of the windows of the second coach?

It is interesting that the gates closed 'automatically' on the engine's approach when most gate into CIE times seem to have been operated manually long after the 1940s. The style of gate, I presume, is typical of the MGWR?

 

[jhb171achill]

Firstly, GSR station green. It was originally very like the darker CIE green, though shows in manynof the few colour photos as being quite uniform in tone when faded, as in this shot. I am tempted to think that there might have been a lighter shade in use too, but I have absolutely no evidence to support that guess. If modelling the GSR era, or indeed, many rural stations in CIE days, I think I would go for a "washed out" look of standard green.

I have samples taken off door posts at the derelict remains of Achill goods shed and Ballaghaderren stations. These show the earlier Midland colours - bright red and light grey or buff. On top, the GSR green, clearly same as CIE green later. CIE continued this green, obviously. 

Water tanks were painted green years ago and this, I would guess, was standard in GSR days. However, in CIE times it seems that mostly a type of galvanised grey paint was used. Tubbercurry, when derelict and with layers of paint peeling off, appears to show black paint too at one stage.

Regarding the upper parts of windows in that clip of Castlerea station, there's nothing covering any windows as such - do you mean the ventilators?

[DiveController]

Thanks for that Jon. I guess I do mean the ventilators but am probably not old enough to remember anything older than a pair of sliding panes in the upper section of coach windows and the push down glass on the doors. I was surprised by how much they protruded fun the coach seen almost end on which I;d not noticed before.

[jhb171achill]

They did on some stock but not all. Today, we have only a handful of carriage designs (ICR, DD, Mk 4 - only three in the entire country!); and in the railcar world 22, 26, 27, 28, 29 class plus NIR's two very similar styles, plus a few darts. And none of them ever are mixed in one train. You'd have got more variety that that in a single train well into the 1960s. In fact, through all railway history on all lines, a uniform train was the rare exception rather than the rule - passenger OR goods.

If you look at that vid clip you'll see that no other vehicle in that train is like the one you mention, and indeed no two are alike.

Edited March 20, 2018 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

I meant to add.... re the level crossing gates. They were worked by a large wheel in the signal cabin, a common enough arrangement where the road was busy. You can see the signalman turning it if you look at the cabin in the clip.

The train makeup, looking at it slowly, is first, a Bredin in GSR livery. Second, with the vents, what looks like a MGWR dining car, hence the extra vents. Next two are a pair of MGWR composites or thirds, both of different design. Can't make out what's behind that but it could be a six wheel second.