C.B &S. C Baldwins

[Mike 84C]

Is their any interest in an etched kit for one of the Baldwin 0-6-2 tanks the CB&SC had up to about 1914?  I ask as I would like one for myself. And I am just testing the water!  

[Colin R]

Put me down for one Mike, funnily enough a Lynton and Barnstaple Railway Trust Member Paul Gower has just done an article on all the Baldwins that came to Ireland and Britain, I don't have a copy as yet but trying to find out any information this side of the wee river that runs between Ireland and Britain has been a nightmare for him, I am not sure he would be interested but I would if the kit can be made for 21mm gauge as well.

 

Colin 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Colin R
missing text

[Mike 84C]

Thanks for that Colin,  a friend of a friend does artwork for etching and I think that  the designers  time costs for producing the artwork will be out of my reach as a minimum of 20 would need to be sold to cover costs. But you never know! 

    Regards Mick

[Colin R]

Hi Mike that does appear to be a bit high, as a one off, that said of course if there where more kits to come then the cost would be lower, it also depends on what you are asking for in the kit do you plan to sell just the etching by themselves or will it be a full package or wheels, motor, casting etc.

While Allen (of Worsley Works) can do any etching you want you need to ask him how much that would cost and just how many he could get on one sheet of brass.

For the NCC Mogul he needs four people to pay upfront for the bits he can do, then on top you have likes of the wheels motor/gearbox and casting to find.

If you want to explore this a bit more I will dig out a couple of email address's for people who might be able to help you out with sourcing this stuff.

sales@branchlines.com 

Brian can do motors, wheels and gear boxes for you.

 

As for castings try another Brian at

https://www.247developments.co.uk/

 

He deals with all sorts of stuff and he has a range of castings as well so he many be able to help you out

 

Hope this helps

 

Colin

 

 

 

[Glenderg]

Provided motors, wheels and everything was included, count me in. Going around the houses to get wheels from A by filofax, and motors from B by carrier pigeon, and all the other stuff by smoke signal, at an unknown time and date would be a deal breaker for me. Also 21mm.

(I've clearly spent too much time on RMWeb!!!)

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, Glenderg said:

Provided motors, wheels and everything was included, count me in. Going around the houses to get wheels from A by filofax, and motors from B by carrier pigeon, and all the other stuff by smoke signal, at an unknown time and date would be a deal breaker for me. Also 21mm.

(I've clearly spent too much time on RMWeb!!!)

Too much time on RM Web Richie.

Perhaps there is a case for IRM commissioning a Baldwin as its first rtr steam loco . Would definitely outsell any kit but a bit too exotic to shift enough units to reach break even point.

Its difficult to see demand for a Baldwin reaching break even point for a traditional brass kit with whitemetal castings, but might be feasible with etched brass with lost wax castings from 3D printed masters if the buyer is prepared to pay a preminium . https://nzfinescale.com/

Rapid prototyping in combination with 3D printing would probably be the most economic/low risk (to the designer/comissioner) way of producing the model. Coastline Models seems to be achieving good results using http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106745-coast-line-models-bits-and-pieces-covering-mostly-cambrian-areas-in-4mm/page-2 Shapeways & Imaterialise.

The cost/difficulty in sourcing stocking suitable wheels and motors from the UK is a major issue now that rtr has basically wiped out the market for loco kits.

Ultrascale who manufacture probably the best wheels in the world have an on-line shop and 9 month lead time, Markits and Gibson the two biggest manufacturers/suppliers don't have on line shops and seem to sell mainly through exhibitions and specialist societies.

 

John

[Mike 84C]

Thank's for all your help and ideas guy's. I never really thought it would be a go'er but one lives in hope!  The subject is maybe  just a bit too esoteric  so maybe  I convert my Baldwin drawing to 4mm  scale and do it the old fashioned way  and scratch build. just don't expect photos of progress anytime soon.

    John, that nzfinescale  is enough to tempt a man to change scale! beautiful castings and models. And now perchance to dream!!  I wonder what happened to the DSER 2-6-0 that was floated as a kit how many years ago?

 

   Mick

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Thank's for all your help and ideas guy's. I never really thought it would be a go'er but one lives in hope!  The subject is maybe  just a bit too esoteric  so maybe  I convert my Baldwin drawing to 4mm  scale and do it the old fashioned way  and scratch build. just don't expect photos of progress anytime soon.

    John, that nzfinescale  is enough to tempt a man to change scale! beautiful castings and models. And now perchance to dream!!  I wonder what happened to the DSER 2-6-0 that was floated as a kit how many years ago?

 

   Mick

The design and production costs on etched brass parts are fairly low. Worsley Works will produce a kit if there is demand for more than 4 sets of parts, alternatively if you can find a draughtsman or have a go at the CAD work yourself the tooling and production costs with PPD in Scotland are quite reasonable.

[minister_for_hardship]

The originals came with Yankee chime whistles, they were replaced with normal Irish/British whistles after a short time as they annoyed locals around Albert Quay too much.

Why the very short working life? Surely they can't have worn out?

Edited March 27, 2018 by minister_for_hardship

[Colin R]

The average life span for a Baldwin in the UK and Ireland was about ten years as the boilers where built very lightly compare to normal UK Building practice, they had an attitude of run it till it is worn out and replace with something better at that time.

Regarding the drawings if you could send me a copy of them I will see what we can do this end.

best to email them to me at:-

lynbarn58@gmail.com, I think they appeared somewhere recently, but I am not sure if I have them still.

 

Regards

 

Colin

 

 

[Mayner]

18 hours ago, Colin R said:

The average life span for a Baldwin in the UK and Ireland was about ten years as the boilers where built very lightly compare to normal UK Building practice, they had an attitude of run it till it is worn out and replace with something better at that time.

Regarding the drawings if you could send me a copy of them I will see what we can do this end.

best to email them to me at:-

lynbarn58@gmail.com, I think they appeared somewhere recently, but I am not sure if I have them still.

 

Regards

 

Colin

 

 

The main draw back with the American Steam locos was that the design and construction was totally different to British practice and would have made maintenance and operation challenging.

New Zealand quickly adapted American steam loco practice and adapted the 2-8-0 as standard for goods & 4-6-2 for passenger after problems with locos supplied for the UK, the indigenous 4-6-2, 4-8-2 & 4-8-4 types supplied from the early 1900s onwards were all based on American practice and trouble free in operation and maintenance on some extremly challenging routes

American and British locos tended to have a similar design life, we have 80-90 year old Heislers & Climax locos still with their original boilers in sound condition , O&K in Germany tended to build more for planned obsolesence

The 10 year life of most American locos in the UK is probably tied up with boiler certification and maintenance intervals. The CBSCR 0-6-2T were basically yard switchers rather than main line locos and probably would not have been as steady at speed as the indigenous 4-4-0T, 4-4-2T & 4-6-0T locomotives, wonder whether anyone thought of fitting a pony truck and assembling/converting the locos to 2-6-2T

 

John

[jhb171achill]

On 28/03/2018 at 7:52 AM, Mayner said:

The CBSCR 0-6-2T were basically yard switchers rather than main line locos and probably would not have been as steady at speed as the indigenous 4-4-0T, 4-4-2T & 4-6-0T locomotives, wonder whether anyone thought of fitting a pony truck and assembling/converting the locos to 2-6-2T

I think that this would certainly have improved them, and I also think it likely that they were unstable at speed - CBSCR track wasnt GSWR standard anyway.  If it did occur to the CBSCR to alter them, it's unlikely they had the money spare.

[Mayner]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I think that this would certainly have improved them, and I also think it likely that they were unstable at speed - CBSCR track wasnt GSWR standard anyway.  If it did occur to the CBSCR to alter them, it's unlikely they had the money spare.

The Bandon seems to have been reasonably prosperous in the early 1900s  ordering 8 4-6-0T from Beyer Peacock between 1909 & 1920. Rocksavage seems to have been pretty good at re-building locos into different wheel arrangements all the Bandon 4-4-0T, 4-4-2T and the 1st 4-6-0T were re-builds from earlier 2-4-0T & 4-4-OT locos.

At one stage the Bandon appears to have two No 19s? in main line service a Baldwin & a Beyer Peacock 4-6-0T which could be seen arriving in Albert St on successive trains from West Cork.

The other West Cork staple was a series of 5 0-6-0ST to a standard Beyer Peacock design dating from the 1880s which lasted into the late 30s, the GSR divided these locos into 3 Classes on account of slightly different wheel diameter although boiler and motion appears to have been the same, the usefulness of the 0-6-0ST on goods and mixed trains may have influenced the Bandon to buy the Baldwins rather than a loco with a leading bogie or pony truck

[Horsetan]

On 3/26/2018 at 11:43 PM, Mike 84C said:

...  I wonder what happened to the DSER 2-6-0 that was floated as a kit how many years ago?

Who knows?

[Colin R]

I wonder how many other Irish locos have been the subject of becoming a possible kit over the years, I know they may not have been to everyone taste, but I am sure the Queens would make a great resin based kit with white metal or brass fittings to fit on either a Hornby or Bachmann 4-6-0 chassis, it might even be a thing for Murphy's models to look at.

 

Colin 

[minister_for_hardship]

On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 1:01 AM, Mayner said:

 

The other West Cork staple was a series of 5 0-6-0ST to a standard Beyer Peacock design dating from the 1880s which lasted into the late 30s, the GSR divided these locos into 3 Classes on account of slightly different wheel diameter although boiler and motion appears to have been the same, the usefulness of the 0-6-0ST on goods and mixed trains may have influenced the Bandon to buy the Baldwins rather than a loco with a leading bogie or pony truck

Beyer Peacock sold near identical locos to the L&SWR and another batch were sold to Swedish railways.

[Andy Cundick]

Been there done it built it.Chivers Finelines did a kit the LSWR Beyer ages ago,the basic difference is the cab and bunker which i modified.I found it quite simple to build up to 21mm gauge.The main problem now is that its inappropriate for either ,so perhaps Balliascarthy?.Andy.