4 wheel fertilizer wagons

[heirflick]

found this clip on blip tv of passenger and fertilizer trains in '06....

 

http://blip.tv/irish-rail-video-footage/passenger-fertilizer-trains-crossing-in-thomastown-2-11-95-76367

 

anyone any info on the fert wagons? havent seen those before.... beautiful wagons. a rake of those would be nice on anyones layout behind the gm's...071's or the babies!

[Broithe]

Great find.

[snapper]

Nice find.

Same wagons?

http://irishrailwaymodelling.com/showthread.php/768-Early-Tara-mines

[heirflick]

thats the same little buggers! great vid there too snapper. multipurpose wagons so, fert and ore....maybe beet aswell?

[Guest hidden-agenda]

I am thinking this is

something along the lines of the tara not the fertilizer but i may be wrong as i cant figure how they would off load each single wagon unless the shunted every wagon and had a ramp for a fork lift to get in to the wagon.

[Magpie1951]

While these were used for the Tara ore traffic for a short time between the mines and Arklow in the early 90's I think they were mainly used and designed for grain traffic from Foynes to Portlaoise. There is a picture on Jan Cottrell's sight of baby GM hauling one of these trains on the Foynes branch. I'm sure Mayner would be the man with the info on these wagons.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Magpie1951

[Eiretrains]

As h.gricer mentions in the other thread, these are indeed the same containers and wagons. After been used on the Tara ore traffic to Arklow, they ended up been used for the grain traffic from Foynes/Portlaoise/Waterford. The caption in the video posted in this thread is incorrect, it is a grain train for Waterford and not a fertilizer, yes confusing!

Edited August 28, 2012 by Eiretrains

[heirflick]

thanks lads for the info - much appreciated as always! in looking at the wagons ....like gareth, i cant figure out how they were unloaded

[Glenderg]

On one end there is a 40 foot type container door, which I assume was opened to empty the load. It's shown four posts up before you play the vid on utoob. Is that a possibility?

[heirflick]

the container would have to be lifted off the flat to be unloaded if that is the door.....possible?

[Glenderg]

Why? Just open the door and spill its contents to a loader/truck below. Seems less intense than lifting turning etc. Hold on, the double bogie beet wagons were similar, how did they unload them? They were a 40 foot container with the roof missing, and a door at one end.... Flick, you have stumbled on yet another CIE mystery... [<- Sherlock Holmes]

[heirflick]

yep....we'll have to get to the bottom of this! ok then, a pint of the black stuff to he who solves the mystery............

[Guest hidden-agenda]

yep....we'll have to get to the bottom of this! ok then, a pint of the black stuff to he who solves the mystery............

 

The beet wagons (single and double) were emptied with high pressure water and i imagine the 40 foot containers were like wise but just opening the door would only allow the bit of the load against the door to fall out unless the container was tipped up but the wagons did not have tipping gear so either HP water or the tarp was removed and a tippler was used or a high power vacuum vacuum was used to suck the load and dont laugh i have seen one of these systems in use and it sucked a welly of a guys foot no problem.

[Glenderg]

and it sucked a welly of a guys foot no problem.

 

Photos. required. laffin too hard to type properly. photos. ha ha ha.

[Guest hidden-agenda]

 

Now imagine the pipe is 16 inch,s dia and the pump is driven by a donkey engine the same size as powers a truck

http://www.whale.co.uk/default.aspx?PageId=278

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Photos. required. laffin too hard to type properly. photos. ha ha ha.

 

 

Laugh no longer. This is what happens when you forget to open the vent on a wagon while been emptied using a vacum system. Also some trucks us this system also to discharge their loads. Cement and fertiliser powers can be unloaded this way or they can be discharged by blowing air into the tank forcing the materials out. It is also how they unload ships with the likes of grain and wheat using a massive hoover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2012 by Anthony

[Mayner]

The beet wagons (single and double) were emptied with high pressure water and i imagine the 40 foot containers were like wise but just opening the door would only allow the bit of the load against the door to fall out unless the container was tipped up but the wagons did not have tipping gear so either HP water or the tarp was removed and a tippler was used or a high power vacuum vacuum was used to suck the load and dont laugh i have seen one of these systems in use and it sucked a welly of a guys foot no problem.

 

 

Garreth we are talking about Ireland where some form of road rail transfer is nearly always involved even for siding to siding traffic

 

The grain was carried in open ISO and purpose built containers on standard 4w flats and bogie wagons.

 

The containers were lifted off the train by forklift on the stub of the Coolnamona Siding in Portlaoise and taken into the Avonmore Feedmill for unloading.

 

The set up at Portlaoise was pretty basic a gate in the boundary fence between the railway and Avonmore and some hard standing for the forklift to operate. IE started to install a run round loop then lost the traffic following the ILDA dispute.

 

In its final years bogie wagons were used with the trains running from Dublin with a road traansfer at either end.

[MOGUL]

The 40ft beet containers had an extra door to the side of the wagon and the Iso container end doors were kept closed. To discharge the side door was opened and the water carried the beet out the side same as with the two wheelers.

If I was unloading the Grain I would make it either end tipped (end doors open and lift container up) with a special road trailer or else unloaded using a grab but not sure which was used.

To load in Waterford the wagons were put under chutes and the grain dropped in. There's a picture of the set up in the feb 2004 IRRS journal. While Dublin and Foynes both seem to have involved a road shunt.

In the uk and europe their special grain wagons had doors on the bottom like the HOBS and the grain was tipped into a pit between the tracks and then carried out and up using an auger system.

[Mayner]

The 40ft beet containers had an extra door to the side of the wagon and the Iso container end doors were kept closed. To discharge the side door was opened and the water carried the beet out the side same as with the two wheelers.

If I was unloading the Grain I would make it either end tipped (end doors open and lift container up) with a special road trailer or else unloaded using a grab but not sure which was used.

To load in Waterford the wagons were put under chutes and the grain dropped in. There's a picture of the set up in the feb 2004 IRRS journal. While Dublin and Foynes both seem to have involved a road shunt.

In the uk and europe their special grain wagons had doors on the bottom like the HOBS and the grain was tipped into a pit between the tracks and then carried out and up using an auger system.

 

The grain and mollasses traffic was set up on pretty much of a shoe string to use under-used redundant stock and would have been carried pretty much at marginal cost, the downside was that it was pretty easy to abandon the traffic as neither IE or Avonmore had any capital tied up in modern wagons or terminal facilities.

 

CIE also used similar dark blue open containers for coal traffic to Arklow and Ballina and scrap metal to Oranmore, the scrap containers were naturally a lot scruffier and seem to have started life as standard containers that had their roofs cut off.

 

There seems to have been some investment at Foynes the backshut from the old lead & zinc (Mogul) tippler was extended eastwards into a paved area for loading grain and mollassess trains complete with overhead chute. There is a photo of the Foynes arrangement in one of the IRRS Journals and I have a photo somewhere of the chute and the Premier Mollasses storage tank in Foynes.

 

There seem to have been enough containers in use to allow loaded and empty containers to be swapped around to allow the train to be loaded quickly as there was usually a ground stack of containers waiting loading/unloading at both Portlaoise and North Wall.

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

John have you any photos of the scrap trains as I never knew scrap was carried on Irish Railways. Would make a nice train to model.

[Mayner]

John have you any photos of the scrap trains as I never knew scrap was carried on Irish Railways. Would make a nice train to model.

 

 

Alas no.

 

The scrap metal containers were carried along with keg and container traffic on the Galway Liner that ran at night rather than a separate train.

 

The containers seem to have been old 20' containers that had the roofs removed by gas cutting, they were painted a dark blue and looked pretty rough, they may show up in photos of Galway station and North Wall Midland.

 

If you are looking for a challenge in the 1970s CIE ran loose coupled block trains off crushed cars to Cobh in standard 12t corrugated open wagons.

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Thanks for that John

[heirflick]

[quote=Mayner;9805

The containers were lifted off the train by forklift on the stub of the Coolnamona Siding in Portlaoise and taken into the Avonmore Feedmill for unloading.

 

 

good stuff john, been talking to a lad who works in the depot and he confirms that operation existed. he is having a look for a photo. will post same when i get it.

[Mayner]

Almost like being home!

 

 

 

Google Streetview!

 

Hard to believe that this was once an important freight terminal, trains would have been unloaded just over the crossing, access to the Avonmore plant was by a set of gates somewhere in the bushes that grew up over the past 10 years since the traffic finished!.

 

IE had started to install a run round loop roughly where the track panels are laid in the grass on the Northern side of the line.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Mayner

[Glenderg]

The containers seem to have been old 20' containers that had the roofs removed by gas cutting, they were painted a dark blue and looked pretty rough, they may show up in photos of Galway station and North Wall Midland.

 

Is that one behind the two red oxide vans?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/be216cd1/7052010217/in/set-72157627067594102/lightbox/

[heirflick]

great picture of that era...the athmosphere is something!

[MOGUL]

Looks more like a wooden bodied open wagon? Anyone know why there's a white BELL container, a reefer maybe??

[h gricer]

Scrap metal was carried in resent years for Haulbowline in Cork on the 12.05 NW/Cork liner 20.35 NW/Cork liner, IRRS Journal no159 p412 has a photo of a open top 20ft container laden with scrap metal on 1 such liner.

Regards

hg

[Mayner]

great picture of that era...the athmosphere is something!

 

The smog from the city and diesel exhaust, would add to the atmosphere

 

The approaches to Cork were very interesting at that time with the cabins at Rathduff, Rathpeacon and Kilbarry and the 'run of goods" between Cork and Rathpeacon Yard.

 

There always seems to have been long strings of wagons loaded with scrap at Kilbarry and even into the 80s control had a habit of running a Liner through the tunnel and up to Kilbarry immediately before an up-Intercity.

 

This may have been something to do with conditioning the rails to reduce the risk of an 071 slipping with the Intercity, at one stage a loco and brake van would be used to sand the rails through the tunnel before important passenger departures.

[dave182]

I'll throw my tu'pence worth in... The containers in the video were leased from 'Amficon' in the early '90s and used primarily for grain, and also for a short while Tara to Arklow. This came about as Tara mines were unhappy with the fees being charged by Dublin port. Flow only lasted a couple of months. On the previous site I asked if Arklow ever had a Container crane in the yard (it didn't) so it was forklift and transfer by road to the port of Arklow.

 

Re unloading of Beet wagons: I've seen a video in the past somewhere of the Mallow sugar factory, and the wagons being unloaded. It was always done at night as all the road traffic was dealt with during the day. Think there were 3 of 4 sidings inside the plant, so they could turn the trains around very quickly. And basically a giant high pressure water jet on a hydraulic arm was lowered into the wagon and the water blasted the beets out of the doors of the 2-axled wagons, while also cleaning the beets! Simple! This also explains why the 40' beet containers had the side door located on the ends as opposed to the middle. Easier to push the beet out in one direction.

 

Finally, thanks for answering a question I had in the back of my head re: 20' open containers painted in blue. CIE/IR had quite a number of these containers (with crudely-cut roof openings) and I couldn't figure out why some were painted blue, when most were brown as used on the coal trains.

Take a look at Eiretrains, and especially stations on the Western corridor as there are plenty of pictures of the 'coal n oil' and you will see the odd blue container mixed in to through the rake!