Asahi tanks

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Jnb would you know what livery the Asahi tanks and the 20 foot flat (if it was in a special livery ref spark proof brake blocks) and do you have any pics you could share?.

Many thanks in advance.

[Magpie1951]

The Asahi tanks were painted a light grey/sliver colour with the end supports and frames in red. I have a black and white picture from the Doyle/Hirsch rolling stock book which I'll try and post up later on.

[ttc0169]

Jnb would you know what livery the Asahi tanks and the 20 foot flat (if it was in a special livery ref spark proof brake blocks) and do you have any pics you could share?.

Many thanks in advance.

 

Hidden-agenda-the IRRS journal of February 2006,No.159 contains an excellent article and photos-"Past Scenes-Freight that was",on page 408 it has a rare colour photo of the Asahi liner hauled by 042 in the loop at the Hill of Down which shows the Asahi tanks in the red/silver livery,

As far as I can remember that liner was used for an emergency exercise in Ballina at that time,as there are no bogie wagons next to the loco,only a two axle barrier wagon,then the chemical tanks.

Edited August 31, 2012 by ttc0169

[murphaph]

Rather than open a new thread I'll reopen this old one. I was looking at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86a2iPdx82w&ab_channel=GerryConmy

At exactly 8:00 the last of the "well known" Asahi tanks passes by, followed by what looks like it might have been a different variant. But maybe it was just another tanktainer from another firm in the liner? Any ideas?

[WRENNEIRE]

Is it these yokes?

 

 

 

 

[Noel]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Rather than open a new thread I'll reopen this old one. I was looking at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86a2iPdx82w&ab_channel=GerryConmy

At exactly 8:00 the last of the "well known" Asahi tanks passes by, followed by what looks like it might have been a different variant. But maybe it was just another tanktainer from another firm in the liner? Any ideas?

1m32s noticed the points are not set. See this before on some video of trains running through 'trailing' points that were not set. Interesting how they must be pushed open by the trains without breaking the spreader bars or other linkages. Not seen this before but heard of it. Presume the mechanism is designed to cope with the point blades being forced over.

[WRENNEIRE]

[murphaph]

11 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

This is the "common" variant of the tanktainer that I've seen before I guess. The one in the video at 8 mins (last tanktainer before container barrier wagon) is the one I'm curious about. It looks newer and more generic but has the same colour scheme I think.

 

@Noel I think trailing sprung points like that are common enough, sometimes called "train-operated points"?

[Noel]

50 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Is it these yokes?

Wow look at the glorious Bulleid open beet wagons behind it. The most numerous and important wagon in Irish railway history. The Acrylonitrile looks a little fisher price.

[Galteemore]

Some might say this one was even more important, Noel....

[Noel]

39 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Some might say this one was even more important, Noel....

The canals handled that sort traffic. Crew Bonus earned by tapping wooden barrels behind the metal straps, and replugging after the level adjusted (for ballast don't you know).

[Galteemore]

That’s correct. Guinness were well aware of the practice and there was a certain brand of biscuit tin which could be used to draw off just enough ‘overfill’ in each cask without diddling the customer. Story is in here I think  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Round-Ireland-Gear-Eric-Newby/dp/0007367929/ref=nodl_

Just to keep vaguely on topic, Newby’s book also includes a few snippets on what it was like travelling with a bike on CIE trains in the 1980s - I remember his account of an ex Rosslare train. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Galteemore

[murphaph]

There was definitely another variant I wasn't aware of, but I'm guessing somebody was? I've found two of them in this cab ride video and they are sandwiched between the common type with the "heavy" bolsters. The variants are markedly taller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-5w7_6Ie2E&ab_channel=GerryConmy

Around 1:53:00

By the way, does anybody know what the rake of dark brown or black looking tanktainers are before the acrylonitrile wagons are?? Oil to Asahi in 1994 still?

That's a great looking train to model. A pair of 121s hauling 10x 40 foot containers, followed by a rake of those dark tanktainers, followed by the barrier wagon and a good rake of the acrylonitrile wagons making up the rear.

[Mayner]

As far as I know the Asahi Liner only carried Asahi traffic. 

CIE transported Acrylonitrile & Methyl acrylate two of the main ingredients  between Dublin Port and Killala.

Methyl Acrylate is highly flammable and acutely toxic and would have been transported by rail in silver and red containers similar to those used for Acrylonitrile

Production increased from 18-25,000 tonnes of synthetic fibers between the plant opening in the late 70s and its closure 20 years later.

Its possible CIE or Ashai acquired additional standard off the peg tank containers required for the increased level of production.

Its possible that the black tank containers are being used to transport fuel oil from Dublin Port to Killala rather than via Foynes due to the temporary closure of the Ennis-Claremorris line.

The most striking thing about the videos is the deteriorating state of the track, with a lot of soft spots with mud pumping up through the ballast because of inadequate maintenance.

Catch points to prevent stock running back on gradients were common in loose coupled days but most were phased out with the elimination of loose coupled goods trains.

There was on the down line between Glenagery and Dalkey to prevent break away wagons running down the grade to Dunlaoire which was removed during the commissioning of the Dart.

It looks like the connection to the Guinness is being used as a catch point to prevent stock running down the Gullet into Heuston Station, the last loose coupled Heuston-Tralee goods ran back down the Gullet and derailed in the station after a coupling broke on the climb to Inchacore

The 

[murphaph]

Interesting thoughts John. I did not know that Asahi used two different "nasty chemicals" which were transported by rail. Perhaps the different tanks contained the different chemicals? Probably unlikely as they are not coupled together. I think the simpler explanation that the original fleet became insufficient as production increased makes sense. I wonder does anyone have a photograph of the later type. I've only ever seen ones of the first variant.

At 3.07 the taller type can be seen more clearly in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM6kiSeddFg&ab_channel=GerryConmy

I know that Foynes-Claremorris traffic was diverted via Portarlington in the 1992 WT. I have no other WTs to consult unfortunately (if anyone is selling a 1995 one I'd be interested by the way).

Do you think the fuel oil would have come in to North Wall instead of Foynes or would it have travelled to North Wall from Foynes, to be added to the Asahi Liner? From the oil tanker positioning in the middle of the rake it would seem it left North Wall like this, rather than being added at Kildare, would that seem reasonable?

Were the containers also going to Asahi specifically or was this general goods traffic to Ballina freight yard?

In the cab ride video in the other direction also on Gerry Comny's youtube channel, there appears to be a similar catch point on the UP side between Kildare and Monasterevan somewhere.

 

Edit: Looking at the above video it seems there were two "new variants"! The 2nd and last tanks are both different to each other and different to the "originals"!

Edited March 15, 2021 by murphaph

[Mayner]

On 15/3/2021 at 10:16 PM, murphaph said:

Interesting thoughts John. I did not know that Asahi used two different "nasty chemicals" which were transported by rail. Perhaps the different tanks contained the different chemicals? Probably unlikely as they are not coupled together. I think the simpler explanation that the original fleet became insufficient as production increased makes sense. I wonder does anyone have a photograph of the later type. I've only ever seen ones of the first variant.

At 3.07 the taller type can be seen more clearly in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM6kiSeddFg&ab_channel=GerryConmy

I know that Foynes-Claremorris traffic was diverted via Portarlington in the 1992 WT. I have no other WTs to consult unfortunately (if anyone is selling a 1995 one I'd be interested by the way).

Do you think the fuel oil would have come in to North Wall instead of Foynes or would it have travelled to North Wall from Foynes, to be added to the Asahi Liner? From the oil tanker positioning in the middle of the rake it would seem it left North Wall like this, rather than being added at Kildare, would that seem reasonable?

Were the containers also going to Asahi specifically or was this general goods traffic to Ballina freight yard?

In the cab ride video in the other direction also on Gerry Comny's youtube channel, there appears to be a similar catch point on the UP side between Kildare and Monasterevan somewhere.

 

Edit: Looking at the above video it seems there were two "new variants"! The 2nd and last tanks are both different to each other and different to the "originals"!

It looks like the 'new variants" were part of the evolution process in tank container design.

There is a Sea Containers presentation on the development of high capacity tank containers which outlines CPV the Clones company that built the original Acrylonitrile containers involvement https://www.international-tank-container.org/storage/uploads/ITCO_History_of_the_tank_container.pdf.

The original Clones built frameless chemical tank containers were a special, and the 'new variants" were a standard off the peg 8'6' framed design.

Its possible the fuel oil on the Asahi Liner was imported through Dublin Port rather than through Foynes, there seems to have been a certain amount of competition between Dublin and Foynes Ports for bulk cargos such as oil, coal and grain. 

Ballina received rail borne coal through Dublin and Foynes Ports during the 1990s. Avonmore (Glanbia) Portlaoise imported grain through Foynes, Waterford and Dublin Ports before finally settling on Dublin shortly before the traffic ceased.

I think IE would have avoided shunting wagons between trains at Kildare at all costs, but just about possible at Portarlington. Leaving wagons on the Up Main Line and CTC loop at Kildare for a prolonged time would have been an absolute no-no in the absence of trap points to prevent a runaway.