Cavan & Leitrim ex T&D brake van 22L

[PorkyP]

I'm wanting to build this van in 7mm scale, I've got some nice dimensioned drawings but as only one side is shown I'm wondering if the other side of the van is identical, as regards position of the doors etc ?

The van was ex T&D and was substantially rebuilt for, (and likely by) the C&L and renumbered 22L

There's a guards access door and a sliding goods door at one end of the van, I'd kind of assume these would be repeated at the same end of the van on the other side, but can't be sure, so if anyone could confirm or deny that'd be grand !

I've included pictures of a 4mm model of the same van ( not my model btw) just for identification.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by PorkyP

[Galteemore]

I may be missing something but it seems to be the same on both sides in your pics. Here’s a passenger version - seems to bear out your theory...as you can see right through the back with doors apparently opposite each other...

If you want to be absolutely sure, just buy the Alphagraphix kit of the van! 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

A couple of carriages on the T & D were rebuilt as brakes. I think there were two thus treated, though I’d have to check, but possibly three. One, as seen above, retained windows but the other as also seen above, didn’t. 

The Great Southern rebuilt them as goods brakes on the T & D, and following its closure in 1953, one was transferred to the C & L.

[PorkyP]

Thanks gents! I wasn't sure if the creator of the model in the pics even got it right, I just used them to show the type of van!

Logic would kind of suggest the two sides be the same, but you never know, it'd be annoying to build it all wrong!...the one I'm thinking of ( no 22L) certainly went to C&L had no windows just plain planked sides, I've included the drawing I have, sorry about the "gradient"  but hey, it did originally come from Tralee & Dingle..!!!

[murrayec]

PP

David Rowlands book 'The Tralee & Dingle Railway' has a picture (as Galteemore's post above) of No.2T page 70 and again its shown on page 29 from the other side- indicating the doors are opposite each other.

Eoin

[PorkyP]

Perfect, thanks again !  I've ordered that book the other day, just await its arrival.

Next game will be to find some 14mm ( 2ft) 6 spoked wheels, ideally axeled to 21mm, though I can do a bit of bullying on the gauge I expect..

[murrayec]

PP

Try Slaters I believe they can supply broad gauge axles- could be corrected on this though!

Eoin

oops! narrow gauge Eoin!!

Edited July 5, 2019 by murrayec

[Galteemore]

They certainly supply them in 7mm standard gauge - 5’3” just to clarify! 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Galteemore

[PorkyP]

I had a quick look, they don't seem to have anything that's dead right, ( unless I'm missing something, quite likely) they reckon they 'can supply' for other non standard stuff, tho I bet these would cost a feckin fortune for 4 pairs of wheels.! 

I might just drop them an email saying what i need and see what, if anything they come back with..

Never easy the Irish NG is it !

Edited July 5, 2019 by PorkyP

[murrayec]

PP

Yes, you'll need to talk with them- most likely they will have to make them up as these would not be a standard stock item on the website

Eoin

[Galteemore]

That’s what I do for loco axles - order the wheelsets but specify Irish axles.

[PorkyP]

Will do, interesting to see what they can come up with, sure its not exactly complex what I'm wanting !....and thanks as always gents for the timely help and advice..

[David Holman]

For my 21mm gauge Fintonagh stock, I use Branchlines wagon chassis (correct for the CVR) and 14mm wheels from the same source. However, I've replaced the steel axles with 2mm diameter brass rod because I'm using Kadee couplings with rare earth button magnets for uncouplers and don't want the magnets grabbing the axles.

 Have found it easy to make pin point ends to the axles by either spinning the rod in a drill chuck against a file/sandpaper, or twirling the axle between my fingers against a slitting disc in the drill.

[PorkyP]

Whats a shame, and i kick myself now for selling it..I used to have a little clockmakers type lathe which would be very handy now...but at the time I thought i was "never going to use it" so stuck it on ebay..

Suppose we've all done that kind of thing and regretted it at leisure. Still as David says, you can improvise simple turning like he describes, I have ,somewhere, one of those cradle things you can mount a drill horizontally which would maybe assist that kind of operation.

I just received "Smoke Amidst the Drumlins" btw, which has another nice view of this particular van, +a lot of great , good sized, photos of the C&L , also, as recommended above by Eoin,  "The Tralee & Dingle Railway" by D Rowlands, again lots of excellent pictures, (inc a diagram of the T&D engine's backhead, something I was puzzling about for a loco I'll be making.)

Edited July 6, 2019 by PorkyP

[David Holman]

The 'drumlins' book is great, but even better is 'Narrow Gauge Album 1950-1965 in Colour' by Michael Whitehouse, son of the great photographer, Patrick. Chapter One 'To Arigna for Coal' has text from JC Boyd with simply jaw dropping photos, the quality of the colour is just astonishing. 

 With sections on the Isle of Man, North Wales narrow gauge, English ironstone plus both the Donegal and the West Clare, it is possibly the best album ever on the narrow gauge.

 Lightmoor Press

ISBN 9781911038 49 8

[irishrail201]

I have the two original carriage plates from 22L..it was rebuilt by CIE in its final condition (attached). Also some other T&D bits, my collection has grown though!

[irishrail201]

On 7/5/2019 at 6:04 PM, jhb171achill said:

A couple of carriages on the T & D were rebuilt as brakes. I think there were two thus treated, though I’d have to check, but possibly three. One, as seen above, retained windows but the other as also seen above, didn’t. 

The Great Southern rebuilt them as goods brakes on the T & D, and following its closure in 1953, one was transferred to the C & L.

Hi Jonathan,

All the brakes that survived the civil war/war of independence were converted to cattle brakes with exception of 14T a 30' brake which was transferred to the West Clare, AND survived! Who knows it may well be out there.

[jhb171achill]

I believe that no two were exactly identical as a result, Irishrail201 - is that correct?

[jhb171achill]

Castlegregory, 1939 (c. H C A Beaumont)

jhb171Senior went there two weeks before it closed. Travelled one way on the loco, carriage the other way.

[Galteemore]

Lovely - one of my favourite spots. Apparently the Guards captured a German agent in the vicinity either there or at the Junction in 1940/41. He was waiting for a train by the most up to date timetable the Abwehr had - which didn’t factor in the closure! 

[minister_for_hardship]

4 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Lovely - one of my favourite spots. Apparently the Guards captured a German agent in the vicinity either there or at the Junction in 1940/41. He was waiting for a train by the most up to date timetable the Abwehr had - which didn’t factor in the closure! 

Vot time does der nächst train kommt?

[Galteemore]

He should have gone to Buggleskelly - ‘next train’s gone’! 

[jhb171achill]

That story is true! The spy ended up being arrested when locals were suspicious.

[popeye]

It's nice to see a picture of Castlegregory station, i have been looking for photos and that's the first i've seen.

My grandmother came from there. 

I adjusted the image a bit for you.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

I have since found the negative of that one, Popeye. It might stand some clarification / enlargement but probably not much - it wasn't taken with a top-notch camera....

[irishrail201]

On 3/22/2020 at 2:31 PM, Galteemore said:

Lovely - one of my favourite spots. Apparently the Guards captured a German agent in the vicinity either there or at the Junction in 1940/41. He was waiting for a train by the most up to date timetable the Abwehr had - which didn’t factor in the closure! 

That was Dingle, he was caught by Dick Mack who was in the local FCA. They allowed him to travel on passed tralee where he was "picked up".

JHB they were all different as a result, the one that went to Leitrim 22L had external framing done at Limerick, whereas the one that went to Clare had external panelling.

Also that image of Castle is superb! My grandad travelled on it to the Christian Brothers in Tralee. I have a 7mm model of the station building! Yes I know the loco is HO scale before anyone asks my sanity. 

[jhb171achill]

On 2/29/2020 at 10:08 PM, irishrail201 said:

I have the two original carriage plates from 22L..it was rebuilt by CIE in its final condition (attached). Also some other T&D bits, my collection has grown though!

Irishrail201, ping me when Internment has ended, and I'll put you in touch with a gentleman who has a great collection of T & D tickets. He's been collecting for some seventy years!