Rare photographs

[airfixfan]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, there was indeed talk of preserving one. 

I believe No. 6 was considered for some reason now unknown, but it ended up being No. 1.

This was too early for the Belfast Transport Museum, so I assume that it was the GNR who planned to preserve it. Shame it didn't happen; an ideal beast to operate at Downpatrick!

I think I remember hearing that it was broken up in error.

Is 6 the one that is missing in that photo. They were able to save a DNGR coach and there is a story that loco 1 the only one to go North was scrapped in error

 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Is 6 the one that is missing in that photo. They were able to save a DNGR coach and there is a story that loco 1 the only one to go North was scrapped in error

 

Yes, that's correct. 

Hard to know which are in the photo, as the plates have been taken off.

[Irishswissernie]

2 & 6 withdrawn at Dundalk ca 1952. Only No 2 was in service at the closure of the DN&G on 31 Dec 1951 According to D.S.M. Barrie 1.4 & 6 were lent to the NCC during WWll as most traffic was being handled by GNRI locos or railbuses. 1 & 6 soon returned due to traffic increasing but 4 stayed on the NCC until 24 Feb 1946. 5 was withdrawn as early as 1928 and returned to Crewe for breaking up.

If 1 was at Newry at the end of services i.e. in the North then that could have been the reason it stayed there rather than transfering it to the South

EDIT I just found this JW Armstrong view of No 2 taken from the opposite side at Dundalk which confirms its number.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[airfixfan]

Great photo. Pity one of these Crewe built locos was not preserved.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, airfixfan said:

Great photo. Pity one of these Crewe built locos was not preserved.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something preserved in England from the LNWR which would assist, comparison-wise, with a "new build"!

[Galteemore]

This is a rather nice LNWR project under way.....https://newprincegeorgesteam.org.uk/

Probably tackled this idea in a thread before but I think the ultimate candidate for an Irish new build has to be a southern 4-4-0 of some description - it’s the gaping void in preservation. Kerry Bogie would be nice...

[Midland Man]

We would like every engine. For me a MGWR C class would be nice. I happy with tyhe stuff we got. Plus there is a new NCC W class.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

This is a rather nice LNWR project under way.....https://newprincegeorgesteam.org.uk/

Probably tackled this idea in a thread before but I think the ultimate candidate for an Irish new build has to be a southern 4-4-0 of some description - it’s the gaping void in preservation. Kerry Bogie would be nice...

The biggest "missing link" is something Midland, so I'd go for a large MGWR 4.4.0.

I am sure that all of us here could also add to a list of wishes regarding a "new build", just as it is all too easy to generate a list on this forum of what new RTR model or kit we would all like - certainly, I have many preferences. However, in all such things, practicalities must come first. Even if there were still unrestored steam engines lying about, there would be at least one of which it could be said that only a madman would think of resurrecting it. This might be due to the weight of it, the absolute impracticality of it being of the slightest use - for example, too small for the main line, too big for Downpatrick, and no room in Cultra!  certainly, if all of the 33 engines mentioned initially were all still in existence, there is not even the slightest likelihood that all but low single numbers of them would EVER be restored - and even now, it is likely that at least some would be scrapped.

The reality, as I learned well in 25 years of looking after preservation bodies' finances, is that we can't preserve everything, and only a fool would try.

Model makers may well (yes, you know who you are!) have their own personal, private lists of what they would like to make available commercially, but the thing has to sell in numbers sufficient to recoup the very significant five-figure sum which has to be coughed up IN ADVANCE of even one being made.

But, for new builds and models - even for restoration of scrapheaps on wheels lying in hopefulness at ALL of our preservation sites - we may have our preferences, and there's nothing wrong with dreaming, but best to keep feet on ground at the same time!

My idea, as above, for a MGWR 4.4.0 would be ideal in utopia, but of no more use than 171 restored. Thus, the effort is better going into 171.

And here we come to the crunch. In steam days, turntables and steam servicing facilities were in every station and junction. Now they are almost non-existent, and anywhere a steam loco goes, great efforts have to be made to deal with it. Turntables - just think - there are but half a dozen left, most no longer operable. Dublin begins and ends the list in the south; Coleraine and Whitehead in the north. NIR would have none - but the RPSI owns the latter two. Then we've a couple of triangles - Limerick Jct. and Gt. Victoria Street - timetable paths permitting. What the RPSI needs is not the romance of more 4.4.0s, much as I hate to say it, but the cold, hard practicalities of tank engines. Most Irish railways used tender engines for main line trains. We have not only got few tank engines left, but even among the world of "new builds" there is little suitable.

No. 4, even though for me personally, it was always my least favourite engine, is the most practical - it does not NEED a turntable! THAT is the future!

The Sligo tank, "Lough Erne", is useless for longer distance main line trips, even if rebuilt (which it would need in entirety). A new-build BCDR 4.6.4T would be useless for today's conditions. A "Bandon Tank" would be useless for today's conditions. None of the GSWR types would do either. Not one.

Thus, a second "Jeep" is by far the most practical option for any new build. A "Mogul" will still be a tender engine, but while it might add a bit of glamour, it won't put one euro more into the coffers than another Jeep would have done. However, with added "X" factor, it also has very many parts, even the boiler, which are interchangeable with No. 4; thus it's a good option for a new-build.

Our dreams are best kept that way; mine, of a train of gas-lit non-corridor MGWR & GSWR six-wheelers on the main line, is about as useful as a chocolate teapot!

[Irishswissernie]

I have been perusing the R N Clements photos on the IRRS Flickr site. There are some interesting photos of the ex DN&GR 0-6-0st's at Sutton awaiting scrapping on 10 May 1952. There are 3 intact locos with the first one identified as Number 6 plus 2 and 3, and one wheels & chassis only said to be No 5 The views also includes glimpses of the Hill of Howth Car shed and the locos are on a siding which was part of the former Power station complex being the 'kick-back' for the lines into the power station. The Sutton & Baldoyle running in board adjacent to the level crossing also appears in the background. If you are an IRRS member you can access the photos.

[Galteemore]

Agreed Ernie, it’s a great resource, with some great images dating back to the 20s. Found a fascinating one yesterday showing a wagon turntable leading into a potato supplier at Athlone - fantastic little modelling cameo for a layout corner 

[jhb171achill]

58 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

I have been perusing the R N Clements photos on the IRRS Flickr site. There are some interesting photos of the ex DN&GR 0-6-0st's at Sutton awaiting scrapping on 10 May 1952. There are 3 intact locos with the first one identified as Number 6 plus 2 and 3, and one wheels & chassis only said to be No 5 The views also includes glimpses of the Hill of Howth Car shed and the locos are on a siding which was part of the former Power station complex being the 'kick-back' for the lines into the power station. The Sutton & Baldoyle running in board adjacent to the level crossing also appears in the background. If you are an IRRS member you can access the photos.

Regarding the "Sutton & Baldoyle" station nameboard, I was told some years ago that one is in private ownership somewhere.......

One number and nameplate off the DNGR No. 6 was acquired by Cyril Fry, and now adorns the wall of the Malahide Model Railway museum, along with other things of beauty that he also acquired!

[Billycan]

Some very nice photos out of Westland Row from 1926/27 that show the carriage shed, signal cabin and some single story buildings that were only known to exist from OSI maps.  The down side is that the model of the signal cabin has to be revisited because the photos show that it needs a new ope.  Another lockdown project.  Hopefully IRRS have more to uploaded.  Wonderful photographs and a joy to browse.

[airfixfan]

According to Journall 11 DNGR Locos 2,3,4 and 6 were moved from Dundalk to Sutton on April 13 1952. As No 1 had went to Adelaide and No 5 was scrapped already then they are all accounted for.

[jhb171achill]

On 4/6/2020 at 3:20 PM, airfixfan said:

Boyd is very reliable and his book Saga on rail Ireland with many great photos and details is well worth tracking down. He was there and on the Ballycastle line in March 1950. Wonder who has his photo archive? 

James Boyd’s photographic collection is in the hands of a private owner in Wales. I’ve been trying to get permission to browse it ever since I became aware of its owner!

The owner told me that it was intended to start sorting it “soon”, though that was several years ago!!

I remain cautiously hopeful!!

[airfixfan]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

James Boyd’s photographic collection is in the hands of a private owner in Wales. I’ve been trying to get permission to browse it ever since I became aware of its owner!

The owner told me that it was intended to start sorting it “soon”, though that was several years ago!!

I remain cautiously hopeful!!

Thanks John was wondering who had his collection as he took some rare photos of the Donegal and the Swilly in particular.